Sequence...a report from someone who actually flew it...

This post has been edited (at least 10 times) to improve accuracy and pictures have been added.

Disclosure: I am and have been a Futaba Field rep for a number of years. Futaba is distributed in the USA by Hobbico which also owns Great Planes. My character prevents me from making stuff up and I use my money to buy the stuff I discuss. Rusty

GP Sequence

I hosted an event at the AMA flying Site 1 in Mucie over the weekend and one of the models I brought was my new Great Planes Sequence.

My actual model specs:

Great Planes Rimfire .32 42-50-800 brushless motor
APC 12 x 6 "E" prop
Great Planes Silver Series 45 amp speed control
Futaba 10C Transmitter
Futaba R617FS 2.4 GHZ 7 channel receiver
(4) Futaba S3156 Digital Micro High-Speed servos
Total weight with a 240 gram True R/C 4S 2100 mah battery is 3 pounds 11 ounces

I built the model EXACTLY per the directions except for the following:

Great Planes plastic spinner with aluminum back plate with hole in front, saved 4 grams, cools better, looks cool.

Carbon fiber elevator pushrod (MidwestProd #5800 .060 or 1.5mm weighs .081 grams per inch) replaced metal pushrod with Central Hobbies NMP 2 mm Dual Axis rod ends on servo and Hayes #131 steel pin clevis on elevator end attached using slotted Dubro large threaded coupler #212 slotted with a Dremel cut-off wheel for better glue adhesion, glued with 45 minute epoxy. Saved 18 grams, no slop. SEE PHOTO

Aileron pushrods were replace with identical set-up described above. Saved 7 grams, no slop. SEE PHOTO

The canopy frame is made of plywood and the glue joint will fail. Add a little CA and nylon cloth to strengthen. SEE PHOTO

Based on my experience with (2) piece gear, I added a .070 x .437 (Midwest Products # 5743 1.8mm x 11mm, .770 grams inch) carbon fiber blade between the outside attachment screws like we do for F3A models. SEE PHOTO

Total weight savings of grams here and there: 37 grams

Construction details:

I carefully aligned the stabilizer with the wing and fuselage.

The elevators use a metal wire connecting the (2) elevator halves and carefully aligned using sharpened carbon fiber rods. Using 45 minute epoxy, careful alignment, heat gun application to remove slight warp in on stab half, they were very, very close to perfect (whatever perfect is). SEE PHOTO

Center of Gravity:

Experienced pilots understand the importance of a proper CG. An improper CG may cause excessive amounts of mix, typically rudder/elevator mix. Having said that, I selected the mid-range of the specified CG per the instruction booklet which just happened to be at the front edge of the aileron servo mounting tabs. Better said, with the nose of the model facing you, reach under the wings placing your fingers "on" the aieron servo mounting tabs and the nose slowly dropped towards the nose.

Flight experience:

The first flight was completed at about 9:30 in the morning with a slight cross-wind less than 5 miles an hour with the temperature about 60 degrees. The brand new battery was charged, installed in the model and the CG was verified.

I selected "low" rate for aileron, "mid" rate for elevator and "low" rate for rudder. (See below for amount and methodology)

I increased the throttle trim until the prop was just spinning at low throttle with the throttle cut "off".

Flight number 3/4's:

I taxied out and turned into the wind and set-up for a long and smooth take-off. After take-off, the model IMMEDIATELY felt very locked, solid and groovy at a slow to moderate speed. (California pilots know how slow Dave Snow flies...slow like that).

I made a few laps and began the P-09 preliminary sequence for about (4) manuevers, a few F-09 manuevers...the knife edge to knife edge 1 1/2 snap, rolling loop, a few silly things that seemed within the capability and precision including a CPLR knife edge circle with (4) snaps alternating inside/outside @ 90 degrees, suuuupppper slow roll, 8-point, 16-point and a 4-point and landed...about (4) minutes. I was truly surprised. The model's size made it appear and actually fly "big" and not feel like a twitchy, crappy little electric airplane like the dozens I have owned and flown. I rarely used full power, could draw stuff as large as was appropriate for the size of the model. The model transitions well adding power or reducing power. It does not accelerate like a rocket when pointed down and feels like a low wing loading performance model. Rudder and pitch inputs in rolls is minimal (assumes you don't let the nose fall 20 degrees!) control. I prefer a "biased" set-up...Chip Hyde suggests that a perfectly neutral is bad, an airplane that has a apecific tendency like add elevator when inverted (my preference) is better.

Adjustments made after flight with the afore mentioned CG:

Rudder/Elevator: I added 8% left/8% right rudder elevator mix.
Rudder/Aileron mix: I added -8% of left aileron with left rudder and +7% right aileron with right rudder.

Aileron Differential: Servo #1 (always left for me) 100% Right 95%
Servo #2 95% Right 100%

Flight 1/4 (completion of first flight and end of battery):

Same take-off, immediately affirmed various mixes, tried the various rolls and the motor suddenly stopped...I blew it up (the battery) after about 6 minutes of flight time. My ThunderPower charging stuff said that the voltage "too low to recover"...a cell was toast. Ok, I only had one battery.

Later in the Day, Bob Brown, AMA District 5 (?) VP came by and asked about the model (it was sitting next to my Integral, MK Champion and Intruder...see RCU "Classic Pattern Tailgate" thread under classic pattern) and asked if I would like to borrow his batteries. I said absolutely.

Flight Two:

Exactly like number 3/4 and 1/4 except I liked it more flying the same manuevers. The airplane, very well set-up and trimmed is a very capable precision machine with potential well beyond my skills.

Flight Three:

Dave Guerin, many time NATS CD, USA F3A team manager, builder to the stars...was the pilot. He couldn't believe how well the airplane flew so I said...try it for yourself. He smiled, laughed and smiled the entire flight! We use very different set-up's, but he has flown my stuff alot and knows this...he loved the airplane. SEE PHOTO

Conclusion:

After (3) flights I will say that it is a nifty airplane and the unique size of the fuselage creates a very favorable impression. It is precise, smooth and very predictable. It is by far the best sub 51" electric airplane I have flown and this is NOT what I expected.

I am going to build a little crate so I can take the model and a transmitter compaq flash card to Phoenix in February. I will use Rusty Fried's transmitter, batteries and charger!

Comparison:

I have a 125 gram "Clik" that feels very "light" and is able to fly slowly. I also have had a 7 ounce Ikarus Yak...it flew like a truck.

I had (4) of Dave Guerin's Focus design airplanes, two were built and covered by Dave. I threw the radio gear in and flew them...I hated them! I called dave and he asked where the CG was...it was way off (too far rear). I flew him into town for a few days...we re-set up both airplanes...to his specifications that came with the airplane. It was awesome- what I call a "point and click" airplane. That experience years ago made me a believer (like hitting me in the head with a baseball bat) that CG and really taking the time to trim an airplane can optimize any design...especially a really good design.

Control throws:

My model followed the instructions for servo arm location and control surface horn hole. I used 100% ATV/AFR in high rate, 85% AFR for elevator mid rate and 70% AFR for low rate. I used 100% ATV/AFR for ailerons high rate and 70% AFR for low rate. Rudder used 120% ATV for high rate and 70% AFR for low rate. I use expo on all and no throttle curve.

Pictures show the stuff I discussed above. The group shot on left includes Mark Radcliff 4-Time USA F3A Team member and Phil Vance IMAC President. The photo on right is of Mark holding his (ACTUAL !!!) 1981 Phoenix 8 he flew in the 1981 World Championships to 5th Place and me (left).

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba

I dont think Lshaver claimed the Clik-x was his. He was just using the video as an example of a small plane capable of true pattern flight.

Holy Crap....I wish it was me flying the Click-X in that video; the pilots name is Blake Hilson, its at the end of his video.
Sometimes when you stir the pot good things happen, and the response form Berusty is what some of us are looking for.
I saw the Sequence at Toledo last year and was blown away, it may be the real deal.
LShaver1

BeRusty, This is a good review with great explanation plus phtos always help!
Could you tell it's a must have plane for anyone interest in electric F3A?

Thanks
SDG666

Great Planes Sequence...is it a "must have"?

Short Answer: Depends?

Consider these more specific questions and answers:

Question 1:

Rusty, I am interested in aerobatics...no interest in competing...just want to get more proficient...actually, I just want to get more CONFIDENT in my abilities...can you suggest an airplane that is modestly priced, requires minimal skills to create a god flying model?

Answer: Consider the Great Planes Sequence.

Question 2:

Rusty, I want a model...(insert above) that is ELECTRIC. I know nothing about motors, batteries, speed controls...If I like it I want to use the stuff for another model...what would you suggest?

Answer: Consider the Great Plains Sequence.

Question 3:

Rusty, I am an experienced pilot and am looking for a very capable model that is smaller, can fly in a variety of wind conditions...I want it to fly, not just be drug around by the engine/prop...actually, I want to be able to have meaningful practice that will transfer to my IMAC and Pattern interest...I do not want it to fly like a truck...what would you suggest?

Answer: Consider the Great Planes Sequence.

Question 4:

Rusty, I live 50 minutes away from my primary flying field...I have little time to fly and when I do...I have very high expectations...you know...I know a bad airplane from a good one and there is no amount of magic dust that can fix a bad airplane...I recognize that i will need to take the responsibility of proper set-up and take the extra time to optimize the model by a trimming process...fine, I do that for ALL of my models...I would fly it in a contest (Masters or FAI) if the conditions were appropriate...what would you suggest?

Answer: Consider the Sequence.

Question 5:

Rusty, If I was just going to buy ONE electric airplane to have the potential of fly with great precision and be engineered to a standard so that I can't screw it up...what would you suggest?

Answer: The Sequence

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba

Rusty;
Thank you so much. That was EXACTLY the post I have been waiting for and watching for ever since this thread began!

What diameter are the carbon pushrod tubes? I'm not sure if I should order 3mm or 4mm rods.

Sequence...detailed set-up continued...

I have edited post #27 a dozen or more times adding detail, changing completely inaccurate information and have added photos.

The final detail will include screen shots of the elevator installation (no, I did not originate this, just copy it on EVERY model I want to fly straight) and screen shots of my Futaba 10C transmitter showing program mix Rudder/Aileron, Rudder/Elevator and Aileron Differential. I found the Midwest carbon fiber blade and rod material at a local hobby shop (Kvindlog Hobbies of Waldo, Wisconsin) and I believe it is distributed by Horizon.

Please review post #27 for the specific part numbers, manufacturers...Thank you for your interest.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba

Rusty, thanks for taking to time to give detailed feedback on the Sequence and especially the mixes, etc. We appreciate your time and the info.

Woodie

Sequence continued...execution details

Woodie, thank you for your kind words (it flies a lot like an Integral...especially the ability to "absorb" forward speed)

I have received a few requests to explain the landing gear detail and more about the spinner.

The landing gear strut, WHY?

The (2) piece landing gear is very strong, easily mounted and has a robust enough mounting system/structure. The problem is that the gear legs tend to pull against each other, pull each other apart when force is applied. For example...landing on fluffy grass. The wheel pant/gear will be grabbed by the grass and potentially twist off (maybe even only one leg) which not only can damage the fuselage...it will also damage the underside of the wing via the pointed end of the wheel pant!

This is an issue for ALL (2) piece gear...the solution (I did not develop, just implement) works very well by connecting the gear together via a strut to distribute load and prevents twisting. yes, one can still rip'em out but you really have to work at it. The photos below show a method to use shop materials to create a "custom" size strut. The example is one I made for an F3A model called a Zeque.

The spinner...the hole...WHY?

The hole provides (3) benefits including it is very easy to use a socket through the hole after installing the (4) screws, provides cooling due to the lightened back plate (about 3 - 5 degrees in my non scientific tests), it is AMA legal and it is cool looking?

Like most of my discussions, I did not think of this, just execute it! Find a 1/4 - 20 bolt, (2) washers and nut and attach to spinner back plate, mount plastic spinner, mark one line where you want to cut the spinner, place in drill press, place marker on dot as it is spinning in the drill press, use a razor saw (with gloves and goggles on!!!!) carefull touch the saw to the line lightly push to cut-off spinner, file and sand edges while spinning...that is it! It takes less than (5) minutes.

Final photo is of my Beryll F3A model with the yellow Great Planes spinner.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba

Hi Rusty,

Thanks for stopping in and posting your photos, setup, and comments on the Sequence. It was difficult to calm the "buzz" when I was traveling for weeks and haven't even mounted the motor yet. I appreciate the help. Dan is out West with Chip Hyde flying in some competition but will likely post his findings here when he returns home. Although the manufacturer typically likes to see a stock build in the review, I like your hop-ups and will add them to my review as options for the reader with credit going to you.

Ok, now back to the build...

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The pull-pull rudder control system is assembled by mounting the servo first and then feeding the strings from the inside through the tubes to the tail. The exit holes must have the covering cut away and they were not easy to find. It would be an improvement if the next lot of planes had these areas marked.

One important thing to note is that my pull-pull rudder tubes inside the fuselage extended much longer than the photos in the manual so you may need to cut them shorter before feeding the strings through them. This will insure that the crimp doesn't hit the tube on a full rudder deflection. The rest of the rudder assembly was per the manual and the control strings tightened up nicely.

Also note that the Sequence has optional servo mounting for the tail. Separate elevator and rudder servo bays exist under the covering beneath the horizontal stabilizer so you can run short linkages (supplied) to the control surfaces. The additional servo weight in the tail can be used to offset a heavier motor or battery pack.

The motor mounting is pretty straightforward. After first installing the x-mount and prop adapter that are included with the RimFire .32 outrunner, the assembly gets screwed onto the motor box using four 6-32 x 1/2" screws, flat washers, and lock washers. Locktite is used on all the screws.

Instead of using servo tape to mount the ESC, I used two tie wraps to secure the ESC and wires. It is a good time to test the motor direction for counter-clockwise before securing the motor/ESC leads. The ElectriFly 45A Silver Series ESC has a safe arming feature that requires you to move the throttle to full up for a few seconds and back down before it arms the motors. You can hear the ESC beeps acknowledging your movements during the arming sequence.

The magnetic cowl does not require any work to install. It simply snaps into place and is perfectly positioned. A small piece of clear tape can be used on each side to insure that it will not shift in flight.

I mounted a Spektrum AR6200 dual receiver in the recommended position just behind the wing tube. This minimizes the number of servo extensions needed. The battery pack is held in place by hook and loop material on the bottom as well as a strap around the entire pack that goes through the mounting tray. The pack can be moved forward or aft to dial in the preferred CG.

At this point, I installed the wings and set all the control throws per the high and low rates in the manual.

Sequence...saving more grams...more bling!

Greg- My posts are intended to "add" to your fine thread...

Saving more grams...more bling...what did it cost?

It sometimes takes me years to fully appreciate wisdom and good advice...Doug Ferguson, one of my most patient and long standing mentors once said "...it is easier to save one gram in 30 places (about an ounce) than it is to save an entire ounce in one place..." So what!

So what IS that the lighter your model is, the better it will fly in the most varied wind, temperature and air density conditions...period. My Sequence weight reduction stuff is inspired by the fine engineering and construction techniques executed by Great Planes.

One final frontier (other than the Lipo battery)is the perfectly fine kit landing gear. The Tower web page also has a list of items "also purchased by purchasers of the Sequence..." and one finds Great Planes part # GPMA3378 ($26.99), carbon fiber landing gear. Nope, you do not need it AND it will save an additional (8) grams and look very cool!

The total weight savings ideas/up grades of my model is a bit over (47) grams, with an estimated cost (excluding shipping) of less than $70.00 for landing gear, NMP dual axis rod ends, Hayes clevis (3), Midwest carbon fiber rod, Dubro large couplers, Great planes spinner and glue...about $1.55 per gram.

The Pelouze scale was purchased at Office Depot/Staples for about $100...a must have for serious weight reduction.

The landing gear took alomost 12 minutes including an interuption by my five year old to discuss his favorite airplane the Gee Bee.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba

Has anyone flown the Sequence and the Sebart Angel 30? Which one would be better at the advaced(403) sequence. I have the Angel 50 and would like to have a small back-up at meets. I saw a video of the angel 30 doing a good job on the p-11.

Rusty,

Thanks. Your ADDITIONS deserve capitol letters to honor their significance. I didn't see the carbon gear option last time I was on the Tower site. Thanks for pointing the option out.

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The APC 12x6 e-prop must be drilled out with a 5/16" bit before mounting on the adapter. I had no fit issue with the white spinner supplied in the kit. I then marked the CG of 124mm on the top side of each wing using blue masking tape and applied most of the decals. I used a Great Planes CG Machine to check the balance and it was dead on with the pack placement shown. The pack position is consistent with the photo in the manual.

My stock build G.P. Sequence was Ready-To-Fly at 62oz (3.9lbs) including the 8.5oz ElectriFly Power Series Lithium Polymer 2200mAh, 14.8V, [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=GPMP0521&search=Go]25C Battery Pack[/link]. I measured 600w at 41amps which provides a very capable 154w/lb power level.

Do not trust the magnents on the canopy or the cowl. Use tape on the cowl and a canopy latch on the canopy. In knife edge flight the spinner will rub the cowl. On my first flight, in knife edge, the cowl jamed between the spinner and the fuse, at least it dead sicks well.

My Rime fire .32 died on the second flight.(4s 12x6 42amps WOT). I'm now using a EF power 32.

The hinges all are off center. Not by much but if they aren't going to do it right, they should let me do it. My LHS had 2 kits and the first one I checked the rudder was more than 1/8" off.

My canopy was not even close to fitting. They need to test the fit.

Stock(before mods) it was 3 pounds 7 oz. with out bat. I guess they used the new 1 oz 4s1p 2250 battery for the test weight.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how this plane would compare to any of these?


[link=http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/detail.aspx?ID=2421]3DHS Aspera[/link]
[link=http://shop.singahobby.com/?q=node/15037]Fliton Element[/link]
[link=http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9064]Sebart Angel[/link]
[link=http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=3354]Hyperion Helios[/link]


I have built or flown all the above and did a thread on RCG comparing them all: [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=878179]Pattern Ships 50 Inches and Under[/link].
I found that in the 50 inch category the Element was the winner once you reinforced the landing gear, but the Sequence looks interesting, and I'm always looking to try something new





President of You Never Have Enough Planes Club

Joe

For our maiden flight testing, the weather was sunny but it was a cool 51 degrees F outside with winds blowing from 10mph to 20mph. Not great conditions for test flying or trimming but the Sequence flew well with plenty of power. Team JR's, Devin McGrath, put the Sequence through a series of maneuvers to test its agility and power. Flight times were about 10 minutes. Since my canopy seemed to fit as designed, I used no tape to hold it down.

On the first flight, we used the recommended CG and the battery pack was positioned as previously shown. After a few minutes, we moved the pack aft about 1/2" but I am not sure how much this changed the CG. Overall, we were quite pleased with the performance of the Sequence. I knew that it wouldn't be long before the snow arrives in upstate NY so I was happy to have an opportunity to test fly it before Winter. The one modification I plan to incorporate on my Sequence is to add a carbon fiber blade between the two piece gear mains per Rusty's photo. My Sequence will see many more flights next season. Although I do not compete, I love to fly aerobatics and plan to use the Sequence to increase my own piloting skills using this excellent flying model.

[link=http://www.gregcovey.com/reviews/SequenceTesting.wmv]Devin McGrath Test Flying my stock G.P. Sequence F3A[/link] (32meg)

ROTFLMAO

Dude - Devin rocks!! I'm gonna buy me one of these bad boys and add it to my list of comparisons, but if it doesn't do perfect rolling harriers in high winds I'll be sorely disappointed!!!


Seriously though . . . great flying and nice video. Be sure to say thanks to the excellent camera man!

One quick question from one RC dude to another. What are your thoughts on motor and prop?




Thanks for the awesome video,


JP

Hi Joe,

I'm glad you enjoyed the combination aerobatics/pattern/3D demo flight. It showed that the Sequence can come out to play on windy days and has plenty of power using the stock setup.

Although I have not had any problems with the RimFire motors myself, I have had seen reports by others that have had problems. Granted, the details of what may have caused these problems are not always revealed, so, at the very least, you can suspect a few quality issues and some possible user abuse. One local pilot had a RimFire motor de-magnitize on him but he was over-propped doing 3D flights that really heated the motor. The Sequence built-in cooling design is excellent so as long as you stick to the recommended voltage and prop sizes, I would not expect any problems.

Regards.

have had mine together for a month now , and love it. no bad habits, stock set has more than enough power to throw it around.

Great Planes Sequence...another perspective

Trashley,

It sounds like you are having a bad experience. I encourage you to contact Art Pesch of Hobbico regarding your specific issues. My kit was pulled out of a pile/stack and forwarded to me and to my knowledge was not hand picked or sorted in any way. As a review here are my results and equipment choices:

My actual model specs:

Great Planes Rimfire .32 42-50-800 brushless motor
APC 12 x 6 "E" prop
Great Planes Silver Series 45 amp speed control
Futaba 10C Transmitter
Futaba R617FS 2.4 GHZ 7 channel receiver
(4) Futaba S3156 Digital Micro High-Speed servos
Total weight with a 240 gram True R/C 4S 2100 mah battery is 3 pounds 11 ounces

Cowl attachment

I believe the detailed instructions (yep, I am a total geek and read the entire insruction booklet prior to assembly) suggested the cowl be taped on for added security. My choice was to use Scotch transparent tape on the sides of the cowl. I also added the an advertising graphic over the tape/cowl area and will cut the seam if I have to service the motor. Photos show the tape/graphic, spinner/cowl clearance "out of the box" and the fron of my modified Great Planes spinner.

Power/throttle setting

The flight speed of any model is a combination of personal preference, the model's particular capabilities and weather/air density conditions. My interest in the model was to verify that it flew like a "BIG" airplane...slow or in a "non flitty" way...with deliberate and focused attention to a (s l o w) pace. The airplane excells at this (I still find it quite impressive) and the high speed potential is well...easily done.

I did not push the throttle to the max and zoom around. To me electric models and their inherently larger diameter propellors provide a different flight envelope with mid throttle cruise and maybe full throttle in a vertical, a really tall vertical.

Soldering battery connectors

Everyone has their preferred battery plug soldering method...here is mine. The key is to have a big honking soldering iron (Weller #SP40L 40 watt) and some kind of fixture to hold the plug and wire while soldering. The photos shows a few clamps and balsa shims. Don't forget to put the heat shrink tubing on the wire before soldering.

As an added insulator, I use clear nail polish over the heat shrink and plug to prevent a short. Probably way too crazy...just would hate to burn the shop/garage or house down!!

Weights of batteries ready to fly

The final photos show the True R/C 4s 20C 2100 with plug/velcro (about 240 grams) and the Thunder Power 4s 30C 2250 with plug/velcro (about 240 grams).

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba

To all,

My set-up is similar to Rusty's except I'm using the recommended 4S 2200 Mah 25C pack for power, 4 Futaba 3115 micro servo's, a Spektrum DX7 2.4 GHZ transmitter and AR7000 receiver. 2 pieces of tape to the motor cowling provide added security and 1 piece of tape is added to the back of the canopy where it mates with the fuselage turtledeck for fear of it popping open due to a less than desireable fit.
Amazing performance. No trim required to fly straight during first flight. Do need to program for knife-edge flight but having too much fun with it right now.

Steve Homenda