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When does a RC plane become a drone?

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When does a RC plane become a drone?

Old 10-31-2007, 04:30 PM
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rc bugman
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

D.W.

Most modelers are very unclear about the real carrying potential of the 25-33% airframe. Wing loadings of 80 oz per sq ft is no problem with a builtup wing. Think before you shoot!!!

Elson
Old 10-31-2007, 06:25 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?


ORIGINAL: rc bugman

D.W.

Most modelers are very unclear about the real carrying potential of the 25-33% airframe. Wing loadings of 80 oz per sq ft is no problem with a builtup wing. Think before you shoot!!!

Elson
And your point is?

D.W.
Old 10-31-2007, 09:26 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

I suggest you cast your eyes toward Iran and other oil rich countries who hate the American way of life if you want to keep UAV bomb threats in check
One of the reasons for using UAVs is to keep the risk to human life (ie pilot and aircrew) to a minimum.
It has been proven time and time again that those who hate the western way of life are more than willing to sacrifice their own lives for what they percieve as a greater cause. They don't need UAVs to deliver a payload onto target. They will just use a human pilot.
Old 11-01-2007, 06:40 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

Mith,

I'm fairly sure you've seen some of the posts in other forums here on RCU asking the how's and why's of small aircraft generators, payloads and stabilization, gps navigation, potential flight duration, max possible altitudes, and down link methods. Quite often they have come from Chinese locations, but others have come from the middle east. In every case quite a few people wanted to be "helpful" and give them every bit of information they could.

If there are that many people so stupid as to think everything they do and pass on here is going to be used for absolutely innocent purposes, or not expanded on for offensive intel platforms, then I just don't know what else I or others can say that might influence them to keep their mouths shut. If it can carry a test tube it's an extremely dangerous weapon. If it can "see" and report back it's just as dangerous.

I know uas products intimantely. They've been responsible, both directly and indirectly, for some pretty mean and nasty things. The technology used in their designs started out as generally harmless r/c type stuff and grew exponentially from there. You wouldn't normally hand a loaded gun to someone you knew wanted you dead, so why do people want to discuss easy to build upon uas designs and technology here in an open forum? This one is just a little slower to have the trigger pulled.
Old 11-01-2007, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?


ORIGINAL: Pat Roy

Mith,

You wouldn't normally hand a loaded gun to someone you knew wanted you dead, so why do people want to discuss easy to build upon uas designs and technology here in an open forum?
Because I know what kind of "gun" I am handing him. Compared to the equipment needed to do reliable/repeatable missions, our UAV equipment is like comparing a 357 magnum revolver to a toy gun shooting suction cup darts.

As for easy to build on, that just isn't so. Try it with the equipment available to model builders and you will see what I mean. After doing it for many years, it still thrills me just to see my airplane fly within 300 feet of it's intended path.

Sorry, but the threat you are referring to is so miniscule that I am not worried about it.

D.W.
Old 11-01-2007, 12:56 PM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

I've said all I can say about the subject, clearly to no avail. Hopefully all that participate in this forum will show some restraint. I've been working in the field for some time now as well and know that just about anyone that knows how to use a search function can obtain anything they require to build pretty close to anything they want, with astounding accuracy. It's only limited by how much they are willing to spend. Hopefully those that participate will show some restraint and common sense while thinking about the future. I fear that they will not since history always repeats itself. People in the U.S. live in a dimension totally detached from the outside world and only catch the smallest skewed part of reality on the 6 o'clock news. It's a helluva lot more dangerous out in the rest of the world than most will ever imagine.

I'm out, enjoy....
Old 11-01-2007, 02:58 PM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

The goal of the terrorist is to terrorize... not necessarily repeatable/reliable missions... We take off our shoes at airports now right???
I think they(Terrorists) have figured out on a plane or a train.. the passengers will Kick their Arse if they tried anything nowadays...

But Pats point is... why give technology away here in these forums and make it easier for the bad guys to do what they want ... particularly to Cause harm with what WE do for fun!

All it will take is one semi-successful terrorist attempt with a model plane and we will all be getting fingerprinted for our Lic to fly models.

I think we can still converse about UAV's and the industry without giving away national secrets or violating ITAR requirements. A rule of thumb is, if a particular company has the info on their public websites, it is OK to discuss....
Though I believe Pat to have the concern of THIS forum being the hub where all this technology can be put together... sort of one-stop-shopping for the Hodji's!!!

I am in the UAV business, I want to leverage these pages to promote the industry and even find employable candidates... but I don't want to help a seemingly LARGE number of people who want to kill all the infidels either... tuff balance!

I am kind of a first ammendment guy, but maybe there should be some moderation consulting with people involved in Intelligence to help limit what is revealed....?????
Old 11-01-2007, 03:26 PM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?


ORIGINAL: mithrandir

I am in the UAV business, I want to leverage these pages to promote the industry and even find employable candidates.
If this is a forum only for discussing full size, high capability UAV's then I am in the wrong place. Guess I will just stick with the other forum where the subject revolves around our toy airplanes.

Later;

D.W.
Old 11-01-2007, 06:10 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?


ORIGINAL: d_wheel


ORIGINAL: mithrandir

I am in the UAV business, I want to leverage these pages to promote the industry and even find employable candidates.
If this is a forum only for discussing full size, high capability UAV's then I am in the wrong place. Guess I will just stick with the other forum where the subject revolves around our toy airplanes.

Later;

D.W.
ummmm....even the FAA acknowledges that UAV's can range from 4 ounces to 25,600 pounds... I think you are included!
Old 11-01-2007, 06:18 PM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

Thanks Mith, you summed up well the points I was trying to get across. There's some good and fun things all can do in the world of UAV's, but let's all try to avoid giving away stuff that should stay "in house". Three countries currently hold the lions share of trade secrets in the business. We don't need a fourth or fifth. Think hard before you commit to print and het the send button.
Old 11-01-2007, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

I won't mention the "Flux Capacitor" then!!! lol
Old 11-01-2007, 08:28 PM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?


ORIGINAL: mithrandir

I won't mention the "Flux Capacitor" then!!! lol
And I won't tell anyone where to buy an Easystar airplane or RCAP autopilot.

Later;

D.W.
Old 11-02-2007, 06:17 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

If there are that many people so stupid as to think everything they do and pass on here is going to be used for absolutely innocent purposes, or not expanded on for offensive intel platforms, then I just don't know what else I or others can say that might influence them to keep their mouths shut.
Geez pal, take a chill pill.

We are only here to discuss our common interest in this subject (of UAVs, not terrorism)

Do you go to trucking forums and tell them not to discuss trucks because they might be used to transport a bomb someplace?
Old 12-02-2007, 07:58 PM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

Does that make my Mig 27 drone a non AMA airplane?
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:31 AM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

I agree with mithrandir people have to take care in what they post on here about " How to do things" I am in the UAV Biz my self. I own a small shop and we make and Build parts and some one off airframes R&D and prototype parts for a few companies.. (All so Run a FAA certified repair station) anyways I have been Approached by a few individuals ( pm's and emails ) asking about things Like "Can i build this or that for them" or " can they buy this from or threw me " to be shipped over seas to them.. . but once i start asking about there intent or what the name of there company is they disappear.. or give a Bogus company information.. ( I all was do a back grown check on anyone wanting to use my services ) anyways guess my point is there are some persons that are on the RCU list that are up to something and no good... we all need to take care in what we pass on.. I would not know what to do if something i Built or pass on information about building ended up hurting someone...


just my 2 cents
Old 12-20-2007, 05:10 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

I think and this is just common sense reasoning that a rc plane gets
into the UAV arena when it is flown at a location or altitude that can
conflict with full scale planes.

I would also say when the plane is overflying a area that is not normally
set aside for model use. as far as haveing a camera onboard or being
paid to fly or haveing a auto pilot on board I dont see what that has to
do with anything.
Old 01-05-2008, 07:37 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?


Millions of passengers fly in U A V's. They are call modern airliners. Modern fighters. Computers fly the planes point to point in any type of weather and land in fog or darkness. Pilots useually are not skilled enough to manually bypass all the stability programs to fly or land sucessfully.
New military planes are all switched to U A V. Human pilots can not take the G forces needed in combat. Robots will rule completly. They have no fear or desertion rate. Ideal soldier.

U A V always has meant NO human at the controls INSIDE the plane. A pilot controling the plane outside of the plane is also considered a U A V. Why risk a expensive pilot in a plane crash ?

Rich
Old 01-05-2008, 07:41 PM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?


A drone is a sexless pilot.

Drones are sexless.[&o]

Rich
Old 01-14-2008, 10:17 AM
  #44  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

Do you honestly think that they (Terrorists) are remotely interested in aerial RC crafts for some kind of attack or advantage?

Look at the past - Hijacking a plane is far easier and more effective!

They are looking to cause mass casualties and turmoil, I personally dont think they'd even be bothered by what is written here. This wont influence them one bit.

After all, they are already fully aware of UAV craft - these things are not a secret, and in the public domain are well known as used in operations in the middle east.

If they wanted to "replicate" these crafts, they'd have done it by now!
Old 01-28-2008, 10:06 AM
  #45  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

Lets beat a soon to be dead horse.

First off, I'm a major anti goverment, anti regulation, anti middle east, anti religous person.
Lets look at this logicaly

1)Anyone who thinks a parkflyer can not deliver a major killing weapon is beyond stupid.
A killing weapon can be smaller then a milligram (biohazards) and as large as a nuclear power plant.

2) UAV should be BANNED in every way, shape, and form, INCLUDING government use!
The first dam thing governments will do is use this technology to spy on the people (universal ID, fingerprint scanning, retinal scanning, ect ect.
The first time I see some thing flying taking pictures of me, or obviously doing evil deeds, I will shoot it out of the sky, we still have the right to carry guns in the USA and that will NEVER change without civil war. Matter of fact some police agencies in the midwest are testing and using UAV drones to spy on "criminals" "out in the desert" already, somebody better stop them....... all kinds of rights violations there far as I am concerned.

3) Terrorists did not cause 9-11 our government did, and even still those morons who couldn't fly a trainer plane, could still easily buy the ability to get a UAV up and doing a 1 time flight of death. A ten year old with enough money could do it.

4) Model flight is in danger, and its because of the middle east and there physcotic beliefs, namely religion.
I fully expect more regs to follow soon and frankly im supprised they have not already. RC flight is the PERFECT tool for terror.

5) If done right new regs will protect our ability to continue our RC hobby. If 1 terrorist plot is caught, or executed using RC flight our hobby will end basicaly right there. The world governments will come down on it with hellish might, count on it. If regs are put into place BEFORE some one "tries" to use RC flight as a terror weapon, it will probably get stopped and we won't be affected to much if at all.


I am ALL ABOUT our rights in the USA and the government staying WAY out of peoples lives but, alas, this time there is alot of danger.
I am FULLY in favor of proacting the government and calling for the closure of this forum and ANY AND ALL OPEN discussions of UAV's anywhere, without clearance.
I love the idea of UAV the tech is cool and looks like hella fun, but for once reason wins and this is simply foolishly dangerous at BEST, and frighteningly deadly at worst.

The future holds many cool things, and unfortunetly alot of those cool things are VERY dangerous in the "Wrong" hands. Technology is exploding all over, and our ability to manipulate things from afar is growing exponentialy, but we must use good judgement, reason, logic, and safety when developing and using this vast new power of micro-electricity.

Don't be fools people, we need clear headed logical thinkers to protect our hobby before its yanked out from under us by some dirtbag religous fruitcake.

Old 01-29-2008, 01:43 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

There are no regs you can put in place to stop a terrorist from useing a model
plane and that includes banning them altogether.
Old 01-29-2008, 08:39 AM
  #47  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

ORIGINAL: ira d

There are no regs you can put in place to stop a terrorist from useing a model
plane and that includes banning them altogether.

Not even remotely true, we can make it ALOT tougher then it is now.
Right now anyone can get and do anything RC, with money and a phone.

Yes its going to change our hobby, but its probably for the best, in the future of technology, having unrestricted RC flight is not a good or safe idea.
Best thing would be for AMA to be REQUIRED to fly ANYTHING, and AMA must do a background check yearly on renewal. That would probably be enough, and some regs on where to fly, and with states and counties being forced to support and provide appropriete flying sites.

So if anyone is flying at a non flying site, instant suspision, maybe even police, if there at the flying site, easy to go check there AMA/background.

ALL FPV and UAV activity should be banned except for space exploration activities done only by the government, no private UAV/FPV/VR and NO government UAV spying period.
Old 01-29-2008, 11:09 AM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

SeaFuries,

I think that your entire idea of what went on 9/11 is extremely skewed. Also, as a person of Palestinian decent, I do not believe that the belief and religion of the entire Middle East can be grouped together. Especially not as being psychotic. It's a small group of extremists that happen to be in control that do those memorable acts. I'll assume two things about you, sir. One is that you're a full-grown man mostly capable of coherent thought. The other assumption I'll make is that you're a Christian. I am a teenager fully capable of coherent thought, and I am also a man of Christian belief.

The way that the Muslim religion works is that they have different sects, just like every other religion. Christianity happens to have Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Episcopalians, Jehovah’s Witnesses and many others. The Catholic religion has killed more people than any other single group in history. The Catholic Church, in five years, documented killing more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. Bloody Mary (aptly named for killing so many people) killed less people during her reign than the Catholic Church did in an average year in the 1400’s, 1500’s, 1600’s, 1700’s, or 1800’s. Those are just those that are documented. They have found tens of thousands of baby’s corpses slain by nuns buried beneath monasteries and convents, and they’ve only looked in a handful of them. Saying that you, as a Christian, are just like the men in charge of condemning millions of people to their death and that you are going to hell for it is like saying that all of those still in the Middle East have psychotic beliefs.
Maybe you’re not Catholic and you believe it doesn’t apply to you…fine. The Baptist religion wasn’t anything more than a way for Henry VIII to divorce a couple more wives without having to kill them. “Televangelists” make hundreds of thousands of dollars, and even millions of dollars, a year from skimming off of donations from followers. They claim that that money is going to go to a charitable cause, something much more charitable than buying them a third house or a fourth car. Most other sects are people deciding that they want to change religion because it doesn’t make sense to them, which isn’t the way religion ought to be. For those that don’t believe in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (my particular religion), it is very easy to doubt the validity of our claims to a true religion as well.

Are you not Christian? Maybe you are Jewish. It doesn’t take a lot to see that the Jewish people in Palestine (yes, Palestine…NOT Israel- If you think otherwise, brush up on your history) are claiming rights to land that is [i]their [/] land and theirs alone. The problem is that every major religious group besides Buddhism claims that area as their holy land. Also, they hadn’t lived their in large numbers since the 10th or 11th century (I think it was the Second Crusade, but I’m not sure). That means it had been nearly a thousand years since they had lived there that the United Nations started a long series of irrational decisions and placed them their, literally stealing the land and homes of Palestinians. My grandmother’s family lost ridiculous amounts of money in the “transaction,” money could be on its way to me right now. I mean they lost OODLES of dough. You’ve already attacked the Muslims, and the Buddhists really don’t do enough for me to worry myself with…so that will be the end of my rant.

My point isn’t to offend or attack any religions, I bring up these points in a completely unbiased manner (except for a little bit of bias in the last two sentences of the last part). I say this to allow me to decisively say that not all people can be clumped into a category with the extremists of their religion/culture/faith/etc. So please, put a little bit more thought and consideration into your response before you essentially blame the possibility of R/C flight being banned on terrorists from the Middle East. Not all terrorists are from the Middle East…anyone remember Theodore Kaczynski??
Old 01-29-2008, 12:33 PM
  #49  
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

ORIGINAL: victorzamora

SeaFuries,

I think that your entire idea of what went on 9/11 is extremely skewed. Also, as a person of Palestinian decent, I do not believe that the belief and religion of the entire Middle East can be grouped together. Especially not as being psychotic. It's a small group of extremists that happen to be in control that do those memorable acts. I'll assume two things about you, sir. One is that you're a full-grown man mostly capable of coherent thought. The other assumption I'll make is that you're a Christian. I am a teenager fully capable of coherent thought, and I am also a man of Christian belief.

The way that the Muslim religion works is that they have different sects, just like every other religion. Christianity happens to have Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Episcopalians, Jehovah’s Witnesses and many others. The Catholic religion has killed more people than any other single group in history. The Catholic Church, in five years, documented killing more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. Bloody Mary (aptly named for killing so many people) killed less people during her reign than the Catholic Church did in an average year in the 1400’s, 1500’s, 1600’s, 1700’s, or 1800’s. Those are just those that are documented. They have found tens of thousands of baby’s corpses slain by nuns buried beneath monasteries and convents, and they’ve only looked in a handful of them. Saying that you, as a Christian, are just like the men in charge of condemning millions of people to their death and that you are going to hell for it is like saying that all of those still in the Middle East have psychotic beliefs.
Maybe you’re not Catholic and you believe it doesn’t apply to you…fine. The Baptist religion wasn’t anything more than a way for Henry VIII to divorce a couple more wives without having to kill them. “Televangelists” make hundreds of thousands of dollars, and even millions of dollars, a year from skimming off of donations from followers. They claim that that money is going to go to a charitable cause, something much more charitable than buying them a third house or a fourth car. Most other sects are people deciding that they want to change religion because it doesn’t make sense to them, which isn’t the way religion ought to be. For those that don’t believe in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (my particular religion), it is very easy to doubt the validity of our claims to a true religion as well.

Are you not Christian? Maybe you are Jewish. It doesn’t take a lot to see that the Jewish people in Palestine (yes, Palestine…NOT Israel- If you think otherwise, brush up on your history) are claiming rights to land that is [i]their [/] land and theirs alone. The problem is that every major religious group besides Buddhism claims that area as their holy land. Also, they hadn’t lived their in large numbers since the 10th or 11th century (I think it was the Second Crusade, but I’m not sure). That means it had been nearly a thousand years since they had lived there that the United Nations started a long series of irrational decisions and placed them their, literally stealing the land and homes of Palestinians. My grandmother’s family lost ridiculous amounts of money in the “transaction,” money could be on its way to me right now. I mean they lost OODLES of dough. You’ve already attacked the Muslims, and the Buddhists really don’t do enough for me to worry myself with…so that will be the end of my rant.

My point isn’t to offend or attack any religions, I bring up these points in a completely unbiased manner (except for a little bit of bias in the last two sentences of the last part). I say this to allow me to decisively say that not all people can be clumped into a category with the extremists of their religion/culture/faith/etc. So please, put a little bit more thought and consideration into your response before you essentially blame the possibility of R/C flight being banned on terrorists from the Middle East. Not all terrorists are from the Middle East…anyone remember Theodore Kaczynski??

Wow, I certainly was NOT looking for this.

Religion in general is not worth my time, or anyones.

Lets not get off subject I've had enough of the mods here today already.

UAV's and drones are 2 words for the same thing and there all bad.

Ban them all especialy from government use.
Old 01-29-2008, 01:23 PM
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Default RE: When does a RC plane become a drone?

Surprise, surprise...you're an atheist. How did religion get into this thread anyway??

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