Hey, everbody, I'm beginning the build of a large experimental UAV I plan on flying far out of my city in the months ahead using long distance satallite technology. Because I am more of a beginner in the rc plane world I'll need a little bit advice, especially from those experts! Such as, tips on building, what products you recommend, and some crash stories so I'm prepared for the worst. In a few weeks there will be pictures up on this post so you people can see how contruction is coming on the project. This aircraft will be entirely homemade. That includes all the wood sheets you would normally call, "die cut" or "laser cut"! In a couple days I'll have a little more information on this 'homemade' UAV.

-Devin

Hi Devin:

I would be interested in finding out some info on what you are doing. Is it just a hobby thing or work- related?

I have been interested in something along the same lines for a long time and am just now starting to get really serious as a side thing to my PhD studying properties of UAVs of the fixed- and rotary- winged platforms.

get in touch with me when you can. Might have an interesting chat.

Reuven

Fist off you better contact your local FAA... Unmanned Aircraft Systems Operations in the U.S. National Airspace System.. as you have been told in a other post you have.. there is no way you are going to fly that with out going threw the FAA and fallowing General Operating and Flight Rules (14 CFR Part 91).... you say in this post and others on this Form "I am more of a beginner in the rc plane world I'll need a little bit advice" well my advice if you have No Background in Aviation,UAV's or RC aircraft.. and Just have to Build this is Higher someone that knows what they are doing to Build this aircraft... you are talking about using "satallite technology"?? who's Sats are you doing to use??? you are talking Big Bucks for that kinda Tech. unless you are some kinda Billionaire with more money then sense and have a Good layer to keep you out of the Fed Pen . for sure if you do this with out going threw the FAA and just fly this thing Cross country threw ATO Airspace.. you are going to screw up this hobby for everyone ..



itle 14 Code of Federal Regulations

* Part 1, Definitions, Civil Aircraft, section 1.1
* Part 21, Certification Procedures for Products and Parts
* Part 21, Subpart H, Airworthiness Certificates, Experimental Certificates, sections 21.191 and 21.193

Advisory Circulars

* AC 21-12, Application for U.S. Airworthiness Certificate, FAA Form 8130-6
* AC 45-2, Identification and Registration Marking
* AC 91-57, Model Aircraft Operating Standards

Forms

* FAA Form 7711-2 (PDF), Certification of Waiver or Authorization Application
* FAA Form 8130-6 (PDF), Application for U.S. Airworthiness Certificate

Orders

* Order 8130.2, Airworthiness Certification of Aircraft and Related Products
* Order 8130.20, Registration Requirements for the Airworthiness Certification of U.S. Civil Aircraft
* Order 8130.34, Airworthiness Certification of Unmanned Aircraft Systems

Policies

* Federal Register Notice - Clarification of FAA Policy (PDF), UAS Operations in the U.S. National Airspace System
* Interim Operational Approval Guidance 08-01 (PDF), Unmanned Aircraft Systems Operations in the U.S. National Airspace System
* UAS Certification Status (PDF), includes FAA focal points for UAS certification project coordination

I think what you want to do is above the scope of experience of most modelers
that post here on RCU, I would suggest you contact some people who are already
involved in what you are trying to do.

Also I think you going to find that what you are trying to do is very exspensive for
one and two its more trouble than its worth.

Just my .02

There are bashers and there are supporters..... Guys come on! The dude said he wants autonomous flight, and so do all in the UAV and Drones world and in this forum.. Contact your local FSDO office . probubly in the capital city in the state you live in( in the U.S.) and inform them of your intentions, and detail everything. I did this myself and found out where to not ever fly ;Notams( notice's to airmen about hazards), and could put one out myself if I wanted. Got the all clear and would have to maintain under400"AGL ( above ground level) and could using the sensers on bord. There are rules mandated by the FAA, and you should Follow them, but if you get the all clear from the FSDO official, than more power to you. Just be safe ;follow the rules and suggestions from officials, and be aware of the planes surroundings at all times.
As far as the plane build. I would look to what others have done in reguards to the quality of the assy. . Also If using any nuts and bolts, learn to wrap safety wire. Think safety and double check everything on your pre/post flights/build. Good luck..

you sound like that gung-ho greenhorn that no one who's been on the front lines wants to associate with because they know what his chances of survival are! can you even fly? because if you do fly you should already have some idea how very difficult what you are thinking of trying is. furthermore its highly illegal. AND VERY EXPENSIVE!
what i would suggest is to build and fly FPV within legal peramiters before you go for the moon shot.

Why is it that everyone is a seasoned flight test engineer around here. To the 'useful' replies, many thanks for giving constructive answers. To the others, you should be ashamed. People need to dream to acheive, and just because you may have flown before, it makes you nothing of an expert. The best out there also tend to be the most helpful. They are not afraid to teach, and learn from others.

Someone comes here with big ideas, then fantastic. Instead of acting like Mr. "My post leads people to already think I am a complete shmuck" Brod, show him the way. Explain to him the steps involved, even if it looking a couple years into the future. Like many who get in on this, he will most likely drop out, but if not, then he will have proven himself.

Why can't people just chill?

The problem is there is a difference between dreaming and doing something illegal. It is great the guy has an idea, but there are rules for this for reasons. I dont care where you fly it, it is still violating FAA rules. I am in the UAV industry and am currently overseas flying them for my job. We are very highly trained, not just beginning R/C guys. Most of the external pilots today are top R/C guys as well. Plus doing autonomous flight isnt as simple as it sounds..there are MULTIMILLION dollar UAV's out there that still can't get it right. This is not a toy and can be very dangerous,

I commend him for the idea, but doing it himself is not the wya to do this,

Arch

I agree entirely with what you say, however there are some exciting things out there to do with limited requirements, and it this we should be fostering. They are entirely kosher and won't get anyone into strife. Look at what is being done at the universities...autonomy at its best.
If this was explained I.e. small and cheap is the way to go, with low level close range flights and so forth then he is most likely to stick around and maybe someday add to what we are aiming for. I am in no way an expert on autopilots. I am involved with MAV dynamics and flight in turbulence to PhD level, however am involved now with training university students to try to do what I am pushing here....small scale, cheap but not necessariky nasty applications. The guy starting this forum got excited. Who doesn't?? Let him know what is possible and realistic and get him started. This field is about getting creative and letting yourself dream.....and having fun with it.

Look back at the first post.

The goal is to build a 144-inch wingspan jet and fly it "far out of the city," using "satallite" technology, by an R/C beginner seeking construction tips (if we are to believe it isn't just a silly prank in the first place).

Nobody has said, "Don't get involved with autonomous flight." But every single person who has personal experience with this subject knows that a potentially dangerous situation can result, and for this reason they are trying to send the message "Start small and work your way up."

Setting realistic goals is the first step to success.

I didn't say there was any chance of him succeeding or even getting something up in the air, irrespective of the level of autonomy. All I was saying was that people (exept for you flybaby) aren't grounding him and showing him what is possible, and subsequently how to go about it, albeit on a smaller scale. It is one thing to explain the limitations, and another to be entirely negative. I dont know this guy from a bar of soap, but ask a schoolteacher from some little hobo villiage if he evr thought he would end up an astronaut and he/she will say only in dreams. Look up the NASA astronaut bio's and you will see a large number doing what 5 billion others only dream of. I never thought I'd study MAVs in $30,000/day wind tunnels either, especially after putting off a half- built model for 20 years and two international relocations.
Some who does understand what he is after should mentor him a little.

Well it's been a while since the guy started the post. And has yet to comment or post the pics of the build he said he would. He might have given up. Or quit monitoring this post from the reactions he got, and now builds it alone. Best of luck to you all[:@]

Well here is my 2 cents about this. Vegasjet has only 18 posts, has not responded since the first post in this thread, has very little if ANY rc experience and wants to build a 144 inch UAV. GET REAL! Can you see the head lines now? "Home built UAV crashes into crowd killing several people". Even at 100mph, it would cover ground very quickly, enough to be back in the "City" very fast.

Now reuven segal, I live about 2.5 hours from New York City and Washington DC. My Australian history is not the best but when was the last time you had hijacked planes flown into two LARGE public buildings and a government building killing WAY too many people? I think we as US citizens have every right to question and be wary of people like vegasjet. My brother-in-law lost several friends and co-workers in the 9/11 attacks on the WTCs. Guys like vegasjet DRAW the wrong kind of attention to our hobby and create problems. There is nothing wrong with experimenting with UAVs and autonomous aircraft by experienced people! A 10 pound UAV with a 1.20 4 stroke on it sounds like a cool idea to start with but a 144 inch 30 pound UAV is a disaster waiting to happen.

Being an experienced rc pilot with a complete understanding of navigational systems should be a requirement before even thinking about a project like this.

bdtsr:

Perhaps you should reread my posts because I did not advocate him building a monster. I was saying, and will continue to say, that we should support his enthusiasm and show him the way to achieve his ULTIMATE goal. No one benefits from slamming anyone else down, except for some overgrown egos.

If done correctly, there is nothing wrong with experimentation. How do you think the industry became what it is? We should be talking to this guy and explain the sfaety issues, ways to ensure safe operation in case of failure, and where to begin. There are numerous places where one can purchase highly advanced autopilots for only 4 or 5 thousand dollars and have no real restrictions on them. There is enough material on the internet to gt things running........look at all the AIAA student competitions going on. It is ignorant to think we are not going to breed terrorism by helping someone through the stages, especially when we all agree that he is going in too deep to start with and even if he ultimately built a platform and flew it with an autopilot, it would come crashing down a minute later. Hard enough to fly as it is. Someone should have explained to him that he should start light either way and work from there as he develops, if at all. Any terrorist group could grab a student, any where in the world (Yes- even the US) and for a sum of cash they would put together this system without asking the ultimate aim of it. Even so, a light plane hired and filled with materials unknown could be flown even easier into a building cheaper, easier and certainly more accurately than an autopilot. Dealing with terrorism is not a case of being paranoid of everything. It is a case of looking intelligently at the material presented and dealing with it intelligently.


Dream again......teach and learn.......show the way.

reuven segal: I never said you advocated him to build a monster. Vegasjet WILL draw the wrong kind of attention to our hobby (especially in the US) with posts like these. If you don't think people are watching sites like this then you need to think about that again. Our our hobby as a whole has suffered here in the US because of the 9/11 attacks. One of the club fields I flew at could have been shut down because of this. People panic at what they don't understand. And perhaps you should reread my statement:

"A 10 pound UAV with a 1.20 4 stroke on it sounds like a cool idea to start with but a 144 inch 30 pound UAV is a disaster waiting to happen."

I'm well aware of the info on the internet. Yes anyone can build ANYTHING, it's all out there for the taking.

Again Vegasjet has not responded since his initial post. This leads me to believe he is stirring the pot to see how bad he can make it stink or he realized he is not going to get the info he wants from this site.

I commend your efforts in the middle east. I am sorry you were witness to the horror these people inflict on others. But the attacks did not happen in your backyard as our 9/11 attacks did for us on the Eastern US coast. WE were attacked by terrorists simply put. WE have the right to be wary of people making requests/statements like originaly posted. It's not the much different from "I don't need to know how to land, just to be able to fly the plane".

As for the religion thing, I don't see why you brought that here. No need for that. I did not detain your friend nor did I know he is a Muslim, so don't put that on me. If he was there for only 2 hours I think he was lucky. Many Americans have been detained MUCH longer than that. Just imagine how the Japanese Americans felt being put in camps after Pearl Harbor. Wasn't right but it happened.

OK, why has vegasjet not responded? He's an eighth grader and suspended from RCU! Here's the feedback info that led to this:

Comments: This young man is in the 8th grade as reported by his parents and was not suppose to be buying items from RCU. I never receievd payment after 7 days and started questioning him and then his parents intercepted my e-mails reported to me his status. It really does me no pleasure having to report a young potential RCer, how ever there were others who wanted this radio, so in the the end he gets bad feedback and I loose a sale, nobody wins, maybe this will be a good lesson to him.

Seems like we all made the assumption this was an adult.

HAY REUVEN-SORRY I SEEMED TO HAVE RAISED YOUR AURDOUR ABOUT VEGASJET. ALTHOUGH I DON'T QUITE UNDESTAND WHY SINCE I ONLY DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU PREACH ABOUT ALL THE TIME; I SUGGESTED BY ANECDOTE THAT HIS ATTITUDE MIGHT TURN PEOPLE OFF. AND WENT ON TO SUGGEST THAT HE BE ALITTLE MORE REALISTIC BY FIRST ATTEMPTING FPV [FIRST PERSON VIEW] ON A MORE BASIC LEVEL TO START OFF WITH. THE WAY YOU PUT THINGS I CAN'T QUITE FIGURE OUT WHO THE SCHMUCK IS?
THE FACT THAT VEGASJET IS, OR WAS A ROGUE EIGHTH GRADER IS NOT THE POINT, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION ANYWAY.

I find it interesting that NOBODY has ever discouraged vegasjet (the mythical disappearing poster) from getting involved in UAV's, but rather to start off with a more realistic goal. In other words, don't do some dumbass thing that attracts negative attention and further restricts our little hobby.

It appears that some people like to wallow in their own self-reverential eloquence.

GENTELMEN- BEING AN ARTIST ALL MY LIFE IT HAS BEEN MY POROGATIVE TO BURST INTO THE THE BANQUIT ,THROW OVER THE TABLE AND STORM OUT.IT SEEMS THAT IS WHAT IVE DONE HERE . MY SINCERE APOLOGIES.
I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM AT THE FLYING FIELD WHERE I SEEMED TO PERVERSELY RELISH CRASHING. IT TOOK 2YEARS TO GET THAT OUT OF MY SYSTEM. NOW LIKE ANY GOOD PILOT, CRASHING IS NOT AN OPTION.
I THINK MODEL AIR PLANEING LIKE ART CAN BE A VERY LONELY AND HEARTBREAKING PASSION AND I AM GREATFULL FOR A FORUM WHERE WE CAN EXCHANGE OUR EXPERIENCE OF THIS GREAT ENDEAVOUR TO BUILD AND FLY.
THANK YOU

I was saying only that there are better ways to put things. I am not yet much of a pilot yet and work on the technical side. However, what I have come across too often, is that people slam down ideas without being constructive. Give examples of where to begin, models to try, simple ideas and so forth and explain how it will help. Be constructive and friendly. If this path is not taken, people who would otherwise be a credit here are turning away. It is not beneficial to the site, the sport or to us. Many of the things being said could be put in a more friendly and informative way.

Why not type something up that would give the new guys something to aim for Ie step by step list of what skills need to be developed for a low- cost, safe and reasonably simple system. I don't mean a thousand page document walking someone through the process but perhaps a series of articles explaining how to go about choosing the right platform (Ie a stable trainer), modifications to make it more suitable, basic software to master, relevant aerodynamics and dynamics, how autopilots work and think, etc. Most of the pilots I know (and some top guns at that) started off flying 2- channel gliders at the park when they were 8 years old.

Wouldn't this be a better way?? Perhaps I over-reacted but this is where I was meaning to focus the argument. Time for someone to step up to the plate. What is a great site could end up even better.

R

They are all potential disasters. The notion that we are dreaming about launching home brew UAS into the NAS (open source especially) is a nightmare for the regulators and ultimately us. Why don’t you advocate that he dream about learning to fly a 2 lbs foamy. If we have an incident, mid air or someone on the ground gets hurt, the segment will be set back years. One nefarious act and you’ll have to be a weapons contractor to fly control line.

Reuven, you're treating this situation as if we're dealing with some 7-year-old whose creativity we are trying to stifle.

In fact, we are introducing vegasjet to the first step toward a safe and successful UAV experience, which is in his case to "snap out of it" and "get real".

It is nobody's responsibility to gently guide him down the path. It is his responsibility to ask intelligent, sane and reasonable questions. When he demonstrates that he is not a total goofball, people will gladly jump in and help.

I do advocate that he should have begun with a simple, easy to repair foamy likely to do little to no damage to anyone and go on from there. If it is not for him then he will come out of it without any great loss. I am not pushing the point that he should start with easy autopilots and then go to the big league, rather that he should be shown how to work his way to get to where he wants to be. start at the bottom and work his way up. The only problem is that he wasn't really assisted in that regard. Surely you cannot disagree with what I have just said.

There must be someone out there who can explain how they got to the point where they can confidently work with autopilots. If so, how would you instruct someone to develop the skills to run an autopilot?

Interesting conversation...

What I would try to do is try to see if we can get this guy back on here. Although, I highly doubt that he has stop reading this post as even I find it interesting to follow up on.[8D] The guy might have duplicated his plan, improved it, but I don't think he's givin up. Atleast not yet. The way I see it is that if we can get this guy to reply we'll be able to see if this "vegasjet" boy is serious about it or not. With all the tech out these days, I wouldn't be surprised if you could do something like this for much less. Don't forget the FAA, oh no. That'll make it all worth while, ha! I know, there are legal rules and everything that you always want to follow but it would truly be a hoot if one of us could finally suck it up and accept that it's the future and that we need to change this hobby into something more amazing than anyone of us could take it for.