makoman1860

My Feedback: (1)

Richard,
Cute article, unfortunately wrong in many cases. It looks like it was written by people lacking full knowledge of the outboard oils. Perhaps also some very obsolete 4th hand information. BTW the company I worked for developed the TCW3 performance standard. I wonder what they mean by "heavy stock".....hmmm. Outboard oils are ashless, meaning no metallic ash ( otherwise known as cheap anti-wear additives ) since they dont thermal "shock" due to constant loading and so dont flake carbon off. Also I doubt the author even knew about DFI engines. Oh well, not really worth going into. Just too bad that the rumor is out there that "outboard" oils are no good for air cooled engines. All that being said, its amazing how well a plain staight run mineral oil will protect an engine without additives, just a matter of good base stock ( which BTW is the key to a good outboard oil ).

spaceworm

Oh, sorry, I guess the ultralight and Rotax engine experts are less so than you are. I wil refer you to them so they can correct their incorrect snd misleading information.

Sincerely, Richard

makoman1860

My Feedback: (1)

Richard,
Well, consider that the article is over 15 years old. TCW3 was new.....DFI engines were just going in production.....things change.

jedijody

My Feedback: (1)

This article was written a few years ago but is still relevant today when discussing the differences between TCW3 and TC/TC+ oils, they are different. Read to the end and you find it is written bysomeone in a position to know the truth.

http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Jody.

For those that have never seen the results of antiwear additives plating a piston and cylinder wall, just use the wrong oil for the application. Same applies if you over stress an oil. If you are taking an engine to that point you need to reconsider how you are running it.

Woody218

My Feedback: (24)

Here's more real-world test data...

http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/...test/index.htm

makoman1860

My Feedback: (1)

Again,
At one time there was a difference, but remember that TCW-3 and TC+ (obsolete) are just performance targets, not formulas. You cant say "TCW3 oils have XYZ in them, and API TC+ oils have ABC". Also keep in mind that many times the oils are really the same, just a different dye, perfume, and label. Penzoil and valvoline are known for this, its just marketing. Im not trying to start a fight, I am just in a situation to actually know whats in various 2 stroke oils, of all ratings. If you want to talk further on it, PM me, if you dont aggree for some reason, PM me as well.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I won't argue, but being one that puts oils to the test in a lab and real world conditions, accumulating hundreds of thousands of hours of mission and test data, I can assure you there are differences between maring and air oils that make night and day look close by comparison. Then you have custom blends of air oils that make even greater difference.

Since most of you never generate anything above minimal loading on an engine, and the only way the engine ever experiences a serious heat issue is through poor tuning and cooling, none of that probably makes a difference. But for those that push or pull weight, fly for long periods of time, or apply an electrical load on an engine, those differences are profit and loss, life or death, to those that use two stroke air cooled engines. I can assure you, marine il fail early in the day compared to a lubricant designed and intended for air cooled applications. Even among those there are vast differences in performance capabilities.

I don't make oils, I use them. I don't use 10 to 30 year old reference data, I develop new through practical use and application, and use that data to develop new mechsnical products of specific form and function.

makoman1860

My Feedback: (1)

Hmmm maybe I should have been a little more clear here. Im not saying that the TCW-3 rating is appropriate for an air cooled engine, im just saying dont discount an oil because its labled tcw-3........get what I mean? Also, well it WAS true that the water cooled outboards ran cooler than air cooled engines some 17 year ago, the same cannot be said now. Look at DFI engines, they have NO fuel in the crankcase to cool the piston, and little if any fuel touches the top side of the piston. Engines have changed, and so have the oils, TCW-3 is a standard for MINNIMUM performance, not an upper limit. Also keep in mind that Walmart TCW-3 is not Quicksilver TCW-3.....not by a long shot!

spaceworm

Use whatever TCW-3 oil that floats your boat, it is your engine.

Sincerely, SPACEWORM, Club Saito # 635

makoman1860

My Feedback: (1)

Richard,
Glad I have your approval to do so . Like I said, its not worth an argument, and in fact an argument is pointless. Unless someone has the actual components and percentages of the oil they are using, or think someone else should use, they just have an opinion. Luckily some of us actually know what is in the oils, and try to help others in the process. Its a hobby afterall......not something to get angry over.

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

Are these expensive 2 stroke aircraft engines really delicate or something? I bought a Weedeater 10 years ago, never broke it in and have run the piss out of it. Never even checked the spark plug. Only maintainance has been to clean the air filter. The whole thing only cost me $44 on sale at K-Mart and it still RUNS GREAT! Can you imagine how long a Echo or Sthil would last?

I plan to purchase a DLE-20 in the near future and I hope it gives me half the service of my $44 weedwacker without sweating about brand of oil, break-in, oil ratio etc. etc.

Cobra1

My Feedback: (42)

Damn, I just knew this thread was worth watching. This kind of entertainment you just can't buy.

makoman1860

My Feedback: (1)

It probably will, looks like a low stress engine. Mean piston speed is only 2057ft/min at 9k. I somehow question the HP rating at 2.5 at 9K, seems a bit enthusiastic as thats a power density of 125hp/litre. Now if that was with a tuned pipe and cold engine......... I guess I would expect closer to 1.7-1.8 HP at 9k. In contrast the Merc 300 optimax has a mean piston speed of 3097 ft/min at 6k with a power density of 93hp/litre.

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

In reference to the DLE20. Many quoted HP figures are a joke if you look at BMEP. I have a spreadsheet were I collect real world RPM with props from various posts and reviews for engines of interest. Specs that are out of line quickly become apparent. The DLE20 appears to actually make about 2HP at 9k.

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

According to people that are flying them they report slightly more actual power than a Saito 1.25. That works for me.

makoman1860

My Feedback: (1)

Hmmm 2.0 horse at 9k, 100hp/litre.....well I could buy that for a wet 2 stroke thats designed well and power is measured at the crank with no accesory losses. Still, pretty low stress, should live a long time.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Now we agree on something HP ratings. So many of the small engines have never even been close to a dyno, let alone mounted u to one, yet they have absolute HP ratings. Better still, people believe them because they read it in the manufacturer's advertising. There's only 4 or 5 engine manufacturers out there using real dynos, and I'm just about 100% certain there's not a Chinese engine in the bunch.

SoCalSal

My Feedback: (16)

I wouldn't worry about the oil ratio at a 1000 hours....It will not run that long

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

I'll give you the same answer you afforded to me when I asked a question about the DLE20.

a-hem...

"deal wih it".

Whistling Death

Sure you don't have me mixed up with someone else? The only question I've seen you ask about the DLE 20 is about the prop.

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

about making the engine noise less annoying.

Whistling Death

Sorry about that, it's hard to tell how a guy means something without actually hearing the words. Didn't mean to sound ugly or anything there just isn't any way to get around the sound of a 2 stroke rc gas engine. The only thing I miss about glow is the 4 stroke sound.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

You can run a four stroke gas engine

Experten109/40

My Feedback: (-1)

no worries buddy. I'm just passionate about what I put in my aircraft. I should have not brought it up.

My wife bought me the Saito FS120. when she sees the visa statement for the
dle... well let me just say it ain't gonna be pretty lol.