Is this the story of how 3W became DA? - now a holycow that everyone copies but nobody is allowed to mention how it came about
Or is it the story of how DA became DL? - soon to become a holycow but because it's Chinese, it's OK to kick it
Or how DL became something else?

I doubt DLE would allow any seller to monopolize. Otherwise, DLE will see reduced sell volume and possibly cheaper products from other competitors.

The bottom-line is that DLE has created a market segment that they dare to loose.

It is well studied and documented over the years
The easiest way to sell anything is on price. There is always someone out there willing to take a risk and buy cheap.

Didn't DLE get their main boost when a Dealer took the risk to introduce a cheap product to the market (Was it DLUSA or was there someone before them?). The original product had a few problems that got dealt with along the way (Such as mounting lugs, those awful extruded mounts and the prop shafts - probably a few other things too). But they sold plenty because they were cheap.

Along the way, some great people got involved and worked hard to help make the brand the success it is today. Those people include the likes of Jody who has worked tirelessly on dealing with issues related to new releases (do I dare mention the original 30's and the bearings on the early 55's and 110's?) but it also includes Dong Liang himself who was prepared to listen and actually make the changes necessary to bring the product up to the quality and consistency it is today.

What they have managed to do is to evolve into a very acceptable product that deserves to be sold at a premium on price through their strong and very capable network of dealers (such as Valleyview).

The market segment they appear to be leaving behind will remain well fed by others. Hopefully there will be another DL in amongst those who will also be able to rise above the "we can make and sell cheaper" mentality that so many of us have encouraged for so long.

I think the early adaptors were RC modelers fueled by planes from kits vendors who wanted to make 50cc gas airplanes affordable, such as wild hare RC in Texas.

Prior to DLE engines were DL engines, which has a pretty good foundation:-)

I would think the DL/DLE eninges speak themselves on quality. Other brands did not make that far, even though they are backed by US-based services.

I find it difficult to stomach the fact that ,ost of the people raving about the lower Tower pricing are people that have gone to Jody for free advice or work on other stuff and now have no sense of responsibility or gratuity for what they received. I'm a firm believer in Karma. Jody's is good, theirs is bad.

In all fairness, there have been several parties supporting DL/DLE in the past. Their success is not at all the work of one person. Many who have worked tirelessly to support the brand have not been as well marketed on INternet sites as others but the listing of contributor is long

Remember DL USA?

Yep. I bought two 50cc and two 55cc DL/DLE engines from them. Excellent service, then Hobbico decided to sell the brand. That was the end of DLUSA.

I bought my last DLE engine (a 20cc) from Valley View R/C. I could have bought it cheaper at Tower, but I like Jody and his competency.


Ed Cregger

I want to say " How much market DA lose when DLE rise abruptly , and the same DLE will lose after DLE ceased selling engines to their pioneer but collaborate big boy only "

According to what Mr DL himself told some other engine manufacturers earlier this year, he sells between 2500 and 3000 engines every single month

I heard that from 2 different engine manufacturers within a month of each other earlier this year.

I guess that DL can afford to lose the low cost end of the market at that level of sales.

Of course - he may also hav been bragging and setting high expectations for his potential competition at a business forum when he told them that but it does go towards explaining why so many of the other manufacturers there try so hard to increase their sales through various means [:@]

When you consider the wholesale value of those monthly sales it really doesn't amount to all that many dollars. As for DA or the other majors losing sales to DLE or anyone else, consider the following.

Using a hypothetical situation, you have a company that flies a minimum of 2 flights a day at 25 locations. Each flight lasts, let's say 12 hours, using 2 aircraft per day. Lets say the engines are changed out every 300-400 hours. So you start out with 50 engines with each being replaced once a month. That doesn't account for spares. The manufacturer selling the engines is selling a minimum of 50 engines a month to that one company. Probably a few more than that. Now figure there are about 1,100 small UAV (sUAS) manufacturers actively competing in that market, with roughly 75% of that 1,100 using small gas two strokes. By small I mean 300cc and smaller. Then consider that a lot of those companies replace engines at 100 hours.

So who's really holding the market share? It's certainly not modeling. BTW, that hypothetical situation was quite understated.

this entire thread has gone off skew no?
i am not defending Tower, but let's look at the facts.
i was a kid when Tower opened shop back in the early 70's......i believe it was called free enterprise back then and they provided modelers with a place to buy and save on modeling needs..........they also carried as much AMERICAN made product as was possible...........now some of you are dissing them for how they do business, and how they drive others out of business.
but let's look at the big picture..............what happened to all the AMERICAN manufacturers?............you all buy Chineese made Arf's, engines and just about anything else you can get your hands on that save building time and/or save yourself a few bucks.
you guys have all contributed to the demise of American vendors, and now want to blame Tower for the small guy becoming extinct?
are you for real?

It was back in the 70's that the Hobbico family first started putting the stranglehold on the hobby industry by buying up the small manufactuers, then forcing the hobby shops to buy from the Hobbico family (I think it was Great Planes back then) at a pricing structure much higher than they had been paying prior to the take overs. The message was pay it or you don't get it. There were also some other items in play, like forcing hobby shops out of business because they were too close to each other, and imposing minumum dollar amount buy orders. I'm personally familiar with $3,000.00 minimums. Sound familiar?

I wasn't just a kid then and was working part time for Hobby Shack as a second job. The Hobbico family was 100% of the reason Hobby Shack, now called Hobby People, started importing direct from China and Taiwan with products that had before that time not been seen in America. Hobby Shack was one of the larger phone sales/magazine ad sales companies of hobby products in America at the time. So it might be said the Hobbico family could be the root cause of all the China hobby imports today. If it hadn't been for them our small neighborhood hobby shops might have been able to survive and continue to serve the local populations like nobody else could, or can.

http://www.towerhobbies.com/thistory.html

Though I don't think this tells the whole story relative to Hobbico itself.

Clint Atkins is apparently the guy accumulating all the other companies like Top Flite, Great Planes, Carl Goldberg, and Lanier.

http://www.greatplanes.com/aboutgp.html



"HOBBICO is the largest retail and wholesale distributor of radio-control hobby products in the world and one of the most progressive companies in the Champaign/Urbana area.</p>

Hobbico consists of 4 basic divisions: Tower Hobbies, Great Planes Model Distributors, Hobbico Product, and Hobbico Administration. Each division has a different focus and excellent job opportunities exist in each one. Hobbico employs more than 600 people in these different divisions."</p>

A big jump for the current big hobby distributors happened when World Engines and Indy R/C product lines were split up and sold off to or taken over by other distributors.

Hobbico wasn't always completely successful with all their product lines. They had Mac Minarelli gas engines at one time. They still have the Fuji gas engine line.

I bought my first Quadra 35cc gas engine from Tower Hobbies for $89.95 back around 1982. That was a great engine, but it (Tower gas engines) went down hill after that. Don't forget US Engines, although I know that most of us have tried really hard to do so.


Ed Cregger

Yes, Clint Atkins and his wife own Hobbico. They live in Florida, and they aren't living cheap!

I avoid all the politics and just buy most of my big ticket items used or NIB from private sellers.
I'm not afraid to do repairs myself, so I don't need to rely on anyone's "outstanding service"...

Totally off subject (like that matters anyway):

[Gasoline/Fire]

I just bought a 70" Great Planes Revolver that I plan to put a DLE-20 on. Got it from Tower for about $180. I did go to my LHS to get one but it would have cost me $237. $57 this time of year is a nice savings. I did buy an HS-5625MG from them though. They usually beat everyone on servos. I'll buy just about everything else I need to put this plane together from them as well.

That's a typical example of where my hobby dollars go. I hit online retailers for the big ticket stuff and get the small stuff from local shops.

Should be a fun plane!

[/Gasoline/Fire]

thx for posting that w8ye.

i remember reading that.
i also remember thru the years that Towers customer service was the best of the best from day 1.
their intention was to make things available to modelers for modelers to enjoy this hobby............it's not their fault that other outlets chose to compete the way they did and import China to the states.
i also remember that Sheldons hobby in San Jose,CA sold OS Engines for less that Tower and did indeed lose the line because of it.
so i understand where T.O.M. is coming from. but the fact that HS (now HP) chose not to give customers discounts and try harder to compete doesn't excuse them from starting this whole Chineese import crap as we know it today. i'm in LA right now and went into a Hobby People store.........nothing cheap at all about their prices either, so tell me where they care or have ever cared about the modeler?
no discounts, no incentives whatsoever. and yet we mention that Clint A lives large?......i do believe he worked hard for it, but gave the modeler benefits to enjoy this hobby along the way.

what i don't understand is how we can keep supporting China like we do............oh yeah, price, and the best place to get a good price is all that counts these days..............nothing is going to change that until Americans wake up and realize that China owns us. it'll be too late by then.

Once Tower/Great Planes obtained the OS import monopoly and raised the selling prices Sheldon ended up buying the OS line through Canada to circumvent the Tower import monopoly. They sold them for less because they bought them for less. Ended up almost going to a lawsuit, if it didn't actually do so.

H/S did discount their pricing quite a bit, and even gave customers discounts for buying in larger quantities. Unfortunately in a lot of areas they were undecut by someone (you know who) deliberately selling some things for less than they cost whoelsale in order to start getting a corner on the market. A dealer cannot compete against their supplier unless their intent is to go bankrupt.

thx TOM, that cleared up a couple questions i always had about what happened to Ron.

my only gripe to this date is that we Americans have let someone through the door that is doing what they have to in the world to survive, but have shot our own feet off in the process.

If it was only about survival it would be one thing, but it goes far beyond that. It's about maximum control of the world's production markets without providing full value for the consumer dollar spent. Along with a few other things.

Right~

This all looks like the well to do keeping the little man down.

Frist you could buy DLE's on ebay from yes guy's in the usa for a 100 dollars cheaper than tower or anyone else.

What was the mark-up, those guy's weren't selling them for free.

Are they trying to make these motors for the upper middle class to wealthy only.

Thats whats happening , lets keep the poor down.

I know I was stricken with a stroke like disease (GBS) that has left my wife and I one step above proverty. Yet I still enjoy my hobby.

There are alot of us out there and if we are to ever experience the joy of a gas engine, we are forced to buy the very cheapest of the cheap or do without.

I've been planning an putting money away for a long time and now the days of the cheap DLE's are over.