DLE Engine Pricing
12-20-2010 | 08:28 AM
#151
Thread Starter
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
ORIGINAL: SkyPilot101
Thank You Sir, for the few seconds of Clarity as I read your post!
Thank You Sir, for the few seconds of Clarity as I read your post!
12-21-2010 | 06:57 AM
#152
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
ORIGINAL: BadAzzMaxx
Do not know how much truth there is to this, I just copied and pasted it from a Email I received. ????
The following are 19 facts about the De-industrialization of America that will blow your mind...
#1 The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001... About 75 percent of those factories employed over 500 people when they were still in operation.
#2 Dell Inc., one of America’s largest manufacturers of computers, has announced plans to dramatically expand its operations in China with an investment of over $100 billion over the next decade.
#3 Dell has announced that it will be closing its last large U.S. manufacturing facility in Winston-Salem, North Carolina in November. Approximately 900 jobs will be lost.
#4 In 2008, 1.2 billion cell phones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured INSIDE the United States? Zero.
#5 According to a new study conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, if the U.S. trade deficit with China continues to increase at its current rate, the U.S. economy will lose over half a million jobs this year alone.
#6 As of the end of July, the U.S. trade deficit with China had risen 18 percent compared to the same time period a year ago.
#7 The United States has lost a total of about 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since October 2000.
#8 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.
#9 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented 11.5 percent.
#10 Ford Motor Company recently announced the closure of a factory that produces the Ford Ranger in St. Paul, Minnesota. Approximately 750 good paying middle class jobs are going to be lost because making Ford Rangers in Minnesota does not fit in with Ford's new ''global'' manufacturing strategy.
#11 As of the end of 2009, less than 12 million Americans worked in manufacturing. The last time less than 12 million Americans were employed in manufacturing was in 1941.
#12 In the United States today, consumption accounts for 70 percent of GDP. Of this 70 percent, over half is spent on services.
#13 The United States has lost a whopping 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.
#14 In 2001, the United States ranked fourth in the world in per capita broadband Internet use. Today it ranks 15th..
#15 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.
#16 Printed circuit boards are used in tens of thousands of different products. Asia now produces 84 percent of them worldwide.
#17 The United States spends approximately $3.90 on Chinese goods for every $1 that the Chinese spend on goods from the United States.
#18 One prominent economist is projecting that the Chinese economy will be three times larger than the U.S. economy by the year 2040.
#19 The U.S. Census Bureau says that 43.6 million Americans are now living in poverty and according to them that is the highest number of poor Americans in the 51 years that records have been kept.
So how many tens of thousands more factories do we need to lose before we do something about it?
How many millions more Americans are going to become unemployed before we all admit that we have a very, very serious problem on our hands?
How many more trillions of dollars are going to leave the country before we realize that we are losing wealth at a pace that is killing our economy?
How many once great manufacturing cities are going to become rotting war zones like Detroit before we understand that we are committing national economic suicide?
The deindustrialization of America is a national crisis. It needs to be treated like one. Can anyone explain how a de-industrialized America has any kind of viable economic future?
America is in deep, deep trouble folks. It is time to wake up.
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
The problem with buying from any overseas manufacturer is with the export of dollars. Unfortunately just about every American manufacturer found out it's more profitable to use foreign labor and components to escape the laws governing labor and the environment in America. So consumers in their never endine greed just sat back and let the jobs of their friends and neighbors drift overseas because they were too lazy to get involved with politics at home. Want to know why you may not have a job or the one you have pays so bad? You did it to yourself.
Next time you folks look at a shiiping invoice from Hobby King or similar, look at the product values noted on the customs documents. You think American manufacturers are gouging you? When the value of a servo on a Hobby King customes invoice is listed at only $0.18 (that's 18 cents for those numerically challenged) you know you're getting had.
Yes, American dealers make some money on a sale to you. They have to if they want to eat and have a place to live, and to provide that warranty service that all of you insist on having. You do the same when you accept a paycheck. You work to have enough to pay the bils and, hopefully, put some away for a rainy day. That payment of the bills and setting aside a litle is called ''overhead and profit''. Seems it's ok for you to do it but it's not ok for the person you expect to take care of you to do the same.
Yes, the cost of everything appears to be going up. The operative word in that sentence was ''appears''. In reality the cost of those products is the same or less than they used to be. The problem is the value of our dollar. It has and is going down so manufacturers expect to receive value equal to the sale of their products and increase the number of dollars needed to buy them to offest the decline in dollar value. Gas is not more expensive, our dollar simply isn't worth anything. That's what happens when you go from a production economy to a consumer economy. You import and buy more than you make so you export dollars instead of importing currency. We have one of the weakest currencies in the world, and a large part of the reason is the American consumer. The other part of the reason is the American voter. They didn't bother to learn about anything, didn't vote, and now are paying the piper.
You learn this is a cold, hard fact if and when you ever travel overseas and try to buy something. Ever wonder why it takes more dollars to buy a Euro or Dinar? Wasn't all that long ago it took more Euros and Dinars to buy a dollar. Now it takes 1.5 dollars for a Euro, and up to 3.7 dollars to buy certain Dinar. Even the Australian and Canadian dollars have reached parity with the American dollar, which means none of the three is worth more than about $0.28 on the world market.
I don't know if some of you are simply stupid or just in denial, but the more American businesses you force to close the more you're going to pay later. Nobody works for free.
ORIGINAL: Tman
Sounds like a good deal. Lots of good deals out there. Servo City recently offered the Futaba Faast 10C transmitter for $369.95 as an example of doing your internet homework looking for good deals. My only problem with buying from overseas vendors is warranty work.
Sounds like a good deal. Lots of good deals out there. Servo City recently offered the Futaba Faast 10C transmitter for $369.95 as an example of doing your internet homework looking for good deals. My only problem with buying from overseas vendors is warranty work.
Next time you folks look at a shiiping invoice from Hobby King or similar, look at the product values noted on the customs documents. You think American manufacturers are gouging you? When the value of a servo on a Hobby King customes invoice is listed at only $0.18 (that's 18 cents for those numerically challenged) you know you're getting had.
Yes, American dealers make some money on a sale to you. They have to if they want to eat and have a place to live, and to provide that warranty service that all of you insist on having. You do the same when you accept a paycheck. You work to have enough to pay the bils and, hopefully, put some away for a rainy day. That payment of the bills and setting aside a litle is called ''overhead and profit''. Seems it's ok for you to do it but it's not ok for the person you expect to take care of you to do the same.
Yes, the cost of everything appears to be going up. The operative word in that sentence was ''appears''. In reality the cost of those products is the same or less than they used to be. The problem is the value of our dollar. It has and is going down so manufacturers expect to receive value equal to the sale of their products and increase the number of dollars needed to buy them to offest the decline in dollar value. Gas is not more expensive, our dollar simply isn't worth anything. That's what happens when you go from a production economy to a consumer economy. You import and buy more than you make so you export dollars instead of importing currency. We have one of the weakest currencies in the world, and a large part of the reason is the American consumer. The other part of the reason is the American voter. They didn't bother to learn about anything, didn't vote, and now are paying the piper.
You learn this is a cold, hard fact if and when you ever travel overseas and try to buy something. Ever wonder why it takes more dollars to buy a Euro or Dinar? Wasn't all that long ago it took more Euros and Dinars to buy a dollar. Now it takes 1.5 dollars for a Euro, and up to 3.7 dollars to buy certain Dinar. Even the Australian and Canadian dollars have reached parity with the American dollar, which means none of the three is worth more than about $0.28 on the world market.
I don't know if some of you are simply stupid or just in denial, but the more American businesses you force to close the more you're going to pay later. Nobody works for free.
The following are 19 facts about the De-industrialization of America that will blow your mind...
#1 The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001... About 75 percent of those factories employed over 500 people when they were still in operation.
#2 Dell Inc., one of America’s largest manufacturers of computers, has announced plans to dramatically expand its operations in China with an investment of over $100 billion over the next decade.
#3 Dell has announced that it will be closing its last large U.S. manufacturing facility in Winston-Salem, North Carolina in November. Approximately 900 jobs will be lost.
#4 In 2008, 1.2 billion cell phones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured INSIDE the United States? Zero.
#5 According to a new study conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, if the U.S. trade deficit with China continues to increase at its current rate, the U.S. economy will lose over half a million jobs this year alone.
#6 As of the end of July, the U.S. trade deficit with China had risen 18 percent compared to the same time period a year ago.
#7 The United States has lost a total of about 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since October 2000.
#8 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.
#9 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented 11.5 percent.
#10 Ford Motor Company recently announced the closure of a factory that produces the Ford Ranger in St. Paul, Minnesota. Approximately 750 good paying middle class jobs are going to be lost because making Ford Rangers in Minnesota does not fit in with Ford's new ''global'' manufacturing strategy.
#11 As of the end of 2009, less than 12 million Americans worked in manufacturing. The last time less than 12 million Americans were employed in manufacturing was in 1941.
#12 In the United States today, consumption accounts for 70 percent of GDP. Of this 70 percent, over half is spent on services.
#13 The United States has lost a whopping 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.
#14 In 2001, the United States ranked fourth in the world in per capita broadband Internet use. Today it ranks 15th..
#15 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.
#16 Printed circuit boards are used in tens of thousands of different products. Asia now produces 84 percent of them worldwide.
#17 The United States spends approximately $3.90 on Chinese goods for every $1 that the Chinese spend on goods from the United States.
#18 One prominent economist is projecting that the Chinese economy will be three times larger than the U.S. economy by the year 2040.
#19 The U.S. Census Bureau says that 43.6 million Americans are now living in poverty and according to them that is the highest number of poor Americans in the 51 years that records have been kept.
So how many tens of thousands more factories do we need to lose before we do something about it?
How many millions more Americans are going to become unemployed before we all admit that we have a very, very serious problem on our hands?
How many more trillions of dollars are going to leave the country before we realize that we are losing wealth at a pace that is killing our economy?
How many once great manufacturing cities are going to become rotting war zones like Detroit before we understand that we are committing national economic suicide?
The deindustrialization of America is a national crisis. It needs to be treated like one. Can anyone explain how a de-industrialized America has any kind of viable economic future?
America is in deep, deep trouble folks. It is time to wake up.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/...anned-america/
Milton
12-21-2010 | 07:33 AM
#153
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From: Whitestone,
NY
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
The problem with the previous post's argument is that it's a very myopic view of the situation. We live in a very different world than that of 20-30-50 years ago, so comparing # of manufacturing jobs is not a valid statistic. Tell me - how many people are employed building wooden cart wheels these days? Do you think wooden-cart wheel makers were upset when their jobs were replaced due to technology? And Dell shipping jobs overseas - the job of the president of Dell is to maximize profits for his shareholders, not to keep a local town afloat. Cheaper production costs is a large part of that equation. When the argument states, "somethings' gotta be done!", I hear no follow-up suggestions. Well, with cheaper labor outside of our borders, the main governmental option is tariffs - which artificially inflate the costs of goods that come in to this country - and hence, costs of ALL of our goods. So, in effect, YOU are now subsidizing the people in that town. You're ok with that? Well, given a choice, most of the market will go for the less expensive product (quality being equal) every time. So then Dell loses sales and market share - not good for Dell.
So lower labor costs help keep the down costs of goods that we all buy. It's unfortunate, but true, that many people in this country are caught - under-educated, but overpaid (in a macro-economic manufacturing sense). The answer? Look at India and China - they are taking many of our MIDDLE-level jobs due to three main reasons - internet access, cheap labor, and higher education. Many of us in this country are WAY behind the times - we're stuck our heads in the sand for too long and have become lazy. So now we're seeing the world catching up with us - they're in shape and we're breathing hard. Time to hit the gym and get back to school, people (and this goes for myself, too. I've got an MBA, work in IT, and I'm not crazy about learning more tech - but ...)
Cheap labor abroad is evil? Tell that to the companies who built the railroads across this country, who built the subway system in Manhattan and other cities, and who built the Hoover Dam and other great infra projects. Cheap labor and the means to use is how things get done. So, yes, it's easy to look at our slipping statistics and role in the world economic community, but instead of crying "something needs to be done", how about making suggestions for improvement. Ex - a friend of mine has developed a software package and uses a foreign developer to keep his costs down. Take advantage of the situation instead of railing against it. The upside - the US is the most creative country in the world - no one holds a candle to us quality and quantity of film, music, fashion (maybe Paris), intellectual property, higher education, infrastructure, justice system. We need to maximize our strengths and realize that inexpensive labor is not a reality in this country. Other than illegal migrant workers, of course.
So lower labor costs help keep the down costs of goods that we all buy. It's unfortunate, but true, that many people in this country are caught - under-educated, but overpaid (in a macro-economic manufacturing sense). The answer? Look at India and China - they are taking many of our MIDDLE-level jobs due to three main reasons - internet access, cheap labor, and higher education. Many of us in this country are WAY behind the times - we're stuck our heads in the sand for too long and have become lazy. So now we're seeing the world catching up with us - they're in shape and we're breathing hard. Time to hit the gym and get back to school, people (and this goes for myself, too. I've got an MBA, work in IT, and I'm not crazy about learning more tech - but ...)
Cheap labor abroad is evil? Tell that to the companies who built the railroads across this country, who built the subway system in Manhattan and other cities, and who built the Hoover Dam and other great infra projects. Cheap labor and the means to use is how things get done. So, yes, it's easy to look at our slipping statistics and role in the world economic community, but instead of crying "something needs to be done", how about making suggestions for improvement. Ex - a friend of mine has developed a software package and uses a foreign developer to keep his costs down. Take advantage of the situation instead of railing against it. The upside - the US is the most creative country in the world - no one holds a candle to us quality and quantity of film, music, fashion (maybe Paris), intellectual property, higher education, infrastructure, justice system. We need to maximize our strengths and realize that inexpensive labor is not a reality in this country. Other than illegal migrant workers, of course.
12-21-2010 | 07:55 AM
#154
Thread Starter
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
I don't think myopic is the right word. Maybe microscopic. Companies are doing what they can to survive these days. Can't fault them for that.
[SARCASM] Hey, I have a great idea, lets all be good patriots and only buy from companies that make their goods here in the U.S.A!!! [/SARCASM]
[SARCASM] Hey, I have a great idea, lets all be good patriots and only buy from companies that make their goods here in the U.S.A!!! [/SARCASM]
12-21-2010 | 07:59 AM
#155
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From: Whitestone,
NY
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
my·op·ic   
[mahy-op-ik, -oh-pik] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
Ophthalmology . pertaining to or having myopia; nearsighted.
2.
unable or unwilling to act prudently; shortsighted.
3.
lacking tolerance or understanding; narrow-minded.
It's the right word.
[mahy-op-ik, -oh-pik] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
Ophthalmology . pertaining to or having myopia; nearsighted.
2.
unable or unwilling to act prudently; shortsighted.
3.
lacking tolerance or understanding; narrow-minded.
It's the right word.
12-21-2010 | 09:11 AM
#156
My Feedback: (19)
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
Good post there microdon2. Adds another perspective to this way off balance thread.
To comment in a way about your post, in my line of work one of the hardest things we do is trying to find qualified employees!! We require strong technical skills along with simple life experiences and a good dose of common sense. We expect them to have a knowledge base so they can be trained into the job and we require them to know how to work. We can sometimes find people with the necessary education but quite often they completely lack any knowledge of how to apply their skills. In short, they're educated but they don't know how to work. Such a dirty word that is .... "work"!! Oh sure, we can find grunts that know how to work hard but then they usually completely lack the necessary education. You get the picture.
I'm ready to retire any day now so my older perspective has warped a bit over time. But in part, I blame a lack of common skills, common sense and the ability to work on what I would call the "computer game" mentality. So many young people spent so much time inside playing games they rarely got outside to do simple play and work. They simply never learned what the "real world" was all about. Their parents gave them most everything including in many cases, their education. They simply have not developed a value system. So when one day someone asks them to "work" they don't understand why they should have to do that. This is just one of many reasons why people are out of work ..... lack of qualifications and lack of work ethic. Unemployed people are everywhere but like I said, try to find qualified people when you have a job to offer! I know many of you know exactly where I'm coming form on this one.
What does all this have to do with the price of a DLE30? Well, thats been hashed to death here so I won't go there. I do believe that manufacturing will come back to this country one day not too far in the future. I just hope this country is still called the "USA" when that time comes though.
To comment in a way about your post, in my line of work one of the hardest things we do is trying to find qualified employees!! We require strong technical skills along with simple life experiences and a good dose of common sense. We expect them to have a knowledge base so they can be trained into the job and we require them to know how to work. We can sometimes find people with the necessary education but quite often they completely lack any knowledge of how to apply their skills. In short, they're educated but they don't know how to work. Such a dirty word that is .... "work"!! Oh sure, we can find grunts that know how to work hard but then they usually completely lack the necessary education. You get the picture.
I'm ready to retire any day now so my older perspective has warped a bit over time. But in part, I blame a lack of common skills, common sense and the ability to work on what I would call the "computer game" mentality. So many young people spent so much time inside playing games they rarely got outside to do simple play and work. They simply never learned what the "real world" was all about. Their parents gave them most everything including in many cases, their education. They simply have not developed a value system. So when one day someone asks them to "work" they don't understand why they should have to do that. This is just one of many reasons why people are out of work ..... lack of qualifications and lack of work ethic. Unemployed people are everywhere but like I said, try to find qualified people when you have a job to offer! I know many of you know exactly where I'm coming form on this one.
What does all this have to do with the price of a DLE30? Well, thats been hashed to death here so I won't go there. I do believe that manufacturing will come back to this country one day not too far in the future. I just hope this country is still called the "USA" when that time comes though.
12-21-2010 | 10:49 AM
#157
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
Doing what they can to survive. Interesting concept when you consider the companies using overseas manufacturing to make their products are realizing profit to cost rations of greater than 100-1. Those larger corporations that moved their manufacturing base simply increaed their profits from 300% to 1,000% without reducing the sales price more than a few pennies.
I urge all those that approve of offshore manufacturing to apply for jobs with those firms and happily accept the working conditions and wages offered. Oh, take your kids with you because there will certainly be a job opening for them too. Even the 8 year olds. You cannot consume without having something to offer in exchange. We now have little to offer so eventually the debts will be called and you'll be giving something up to compensate for that debt. It won't be anything you want to give up. Your inability to project is what limits you to being a deep discount buyer. Because of that lack of ability you are doomed to financial extinction via a constantly reducing wage level. You are competiting with the lowest common denominator, which is unskilled labor. You just don't understand the process in play, since you can't understand that your wages today are lower than they were in the 1980's when factored with the decline of dollar value.
I urge all those that approve of offshore manufacturing to apply for jobs with those firms and happily accept the working conditions and wages offered. Oh, take your kids with you because there will certainly be a job opening for them too. Even the 8 year olds. You cannot consume without having something to offer in exchange. We now have little to offer so eventually the debts will be called and you'll be giving something up to compensate for that debt. It won't be anything you want to give up. Your inability to project is what limits you to being a deep discount buyer. Because of that lack of ability you are doomed to financial extinction via a constantly reducing wage level. You are competiting with the lowest common denominator, which is unskilled labor. You just don't understand the process in play, since you can't understand that your wages today are lower than they were in the 1980's when factored with the decline of dollar value.
12-21-2010 | 11:35 AM
#158
Thread Starter
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Doing what they can to survive. Interesting concept when you consider the companies using overseas manufacturing to make their products are realizing profit to cost rations of greater than 100-1. Those larger corporations that moved their manufacturing base simply increaed their profits from 300% to 1,000% without reducing the sales price more than a few pennies.
Doing what they can to survive. Interesting concept when you consider the companies using overseas manufacturing to make their products are realizing profit to cost rations of greater than 100-1. Those larger corporations that moved their manufacturing base simply increaed their profits from 300% to 1,000% without reducing the sales price more than a few pennies.
I urge all those that approve of offshore manufacturing to apply for jobs with those firms and happily accept the working conditions and wages offered. Oh, take your kids with you because there will certainly be a job opening for them too. Even the 8 year olds. You cannot consume without having something to offer in exchange. We now have little to offer so eventually the debts will be called and you'll be giving something up to compensate for that debt. It won't be anything you want to give up. Your inability to project is what limits you to being a deep discount buyer. Because of that lack of ability you are doomed to financial extinction via a constantly reducing wage level. You are competiting with the lowest common denominator, which is unskilled labor. You just don't understand the process in play, since you can't understand that your wages today are lower than they were in the 1980's when factored with the decline of dollar value.
According to my latest Social Security summery (please don't do an SSA tangent!), I was making $4,000 to $8,000 a year working part time at Freds Dollar Store and Target in high school and college. I'll take today's standard of living over that of the early 1980s.
12-21-2010 | 11:53 AM
#159
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From: Whitestone,
NY
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
Tired Old Man - No offense, but your "realized profit to cost ratios of 100-1" figure sounds completely fabricated (if not I'm open to hearing examples). Firstly, you wouldn't have access to those numbers - no company would publish them. Second, you may be thinking of manufacturing costs only, which, as we know, is only a portion of the total cost of a product (storing, shipping, insuring, distribution, marketing). And, btw, a "300%" increase in profits (another fabricated number, I'd guess) sounds impressive, even outlandish, unless last year's profit was 1% of gross - a thin margin in ANY industry - and was brought up to 4% of gross - still low - but still, it's a 300% increase over the year before. Not so outlandish from that perspective, right?
And if any companies ARE experiencing what you might call "excess" or "unjust" profits, guess what - that's an opportunity for competition to sneak in and undercut them. Sure, there are exceptions - like when lobbyists bribe lawmakers to look the other way or for more favorable conditions, but, overall, competition keeps prices down.
As for "approving" of offshore manufacturing, that misses the point. It's not a question of "approving" or not. It's a situation of ACCEPTING what IS - that is, we now live in a GLOBAL market, where we now compete GLOBALLY for and with international resources. THIS is what's changed, and why old comparisons don't work. For one, the Internet - it's a double-edged sword. Overall, it's an amazing tool of information exchange and a very efficient platform for business. And it also lowers barriers to competition. But living in a global economy also means that all of the unskilled, underpaid, starving people of China, India, Indonesia, Africa, and even Mexico are now competing with us for manufacturing jobs. But you cannot blame business owners for wanting to keep manufacturing costs down - that's integral to business. Tariffs and trade agreements may work in the very short run, but we saw in New Orleans, and in Detroit, man-made barriers will only keep out natural forces for SO long. Eventually, natural forces, and market-driven economic forces, win out.
An ongoing problem in the US is that many of us still don't think globally, whereas the rest of the world has been for quite some time. Isolationism has never worked in the long run. And in today's world it's a recipe for failure.
And if any companies ARE experiencing what you might call "excess" or "unjust" profits, guess what - that's an opportunity for competition to sneak in and undercut them. Sure, there are exceptions - like when lobbyists bribe lawmakers to look the other way or for more favorable conditions, but, overall, competition keeps prices down.
As for "approving" of offshore manufacturing, that misses the point. It's not a question of "approving" or not. It's a situation of ACCEPTING what IS - that is, we now live in a GLOBAL market, where we now compete GLOBALLY for and with international resources. THIS is what's changed, and why old comparisons don't work. For one, the Internet - it's a double-edged sword. Overall, it's an amazing tool of information exchange and a very efficient platform for business. And it also lowers barriers to competition. But living in a global economy also means that all of the unskilled, underpaid, starving people of China, India, Indonesia, Africa, and even Mexico are now competing with us for manufacturing jobs. But you cannot blame business owners for wanting to keep manufacturing costs down - that's integral to business. Tariffs and trade agreements may work in the very short run, but we saw in New Orleans, and in Detroit, man-made barriers will only keep out natural forces for SO long. Eventually, natural forces, and market-driven economic forces, win out.
An ongoing problem in the US is that many of us still don't think globally, whereas the rest of the world has been for quite some time. Isolationism has never worked in the long run. And in today's world it's a recipe for failure.
12-21-2010 | 12:08 PM
#160
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
I work in an area where we develop and sell a product. I most certainly do know profit to cost ratios. Unless you're a supermarket working off of very large volume levels with fast product turnover you are turning a heck of a lot more than 10 or 20% if you are remaining in business and performing any kind of expansion or growth. Most of you don't have a clue what what profit levels actually consist of. Only the uneducated think profit margins are small in consumer sales. Only the very small companies have to rely on small profits because they can't compete against volume pricing to offset a lower profit per sale.
Again, look at those imprt cost declarations to see what things really costs. those are relatively factual documents. How to fix it? I don't know but I know driving your small loca lhobby businesses into bankruptcy isn't the way to do it.
Again, look at those imprt cost declarations to see what things really costs. those are relatively factual documents. How to fix it? I don't know but I know driving your small loca lhobby businesses into bankruptcy isn't the way to do it.
12-21-2010 | 12:21 PM
#161
Thread Starter
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
I work in an area where we develop and sell a product. I most certainly do know profit to cost ratios. Unless you're a supermarket working off of very large volume levels with fast product turnover you are turning a heck of a lot more than 10 or 20% if you are remaining in business and performing any kind of expansion or growth. Most of you don't have a clue what what profit levels actually consist of. Only the uneducated think profit margins are small in consumer sales. Only the very small companies have to rely on small profits because they can't compete against volume pricing to offset a lower profit per sale.
I work in an area where we develop and sell a product. I most certainly do know profit to cost ratios. Unless you're a supermarket working off of very large volume levels with fast product turnover you are turning a heck of a lot more than 10 or 20% if you are remaining in business and performing any kind of expansion or growth. Most of you don't have a clue what what profit levels actually consist of. Only the uneducated think profit margins are small in consumer sales. Only the very small companies have to rely on small profits because they can't compete against volume pricing to offset a lower profit per sale.
12-21-2010 | 01:02 PM
#162
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From: Whitestone,
NY
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
Tired Old Man - making a blanket statement like "most of you don't have a clue what profit levels consist of" without any factual information to back that up does NOT make you look good OR help your argument. And I never said or implied that profit margins are small in consumer sales. My example was clear - that a 300% profit increase does not have to translate to excess profits. On that, what business do YOU know of that voluntarily limits their profits? None that I know of - that's not the American way. Unless you're a government-regulated or subsidized monopoly, like a power company or a railroad, you should be able to make as much profits as legally possible. We believe in Capitalism, right? Or do you want the government regulating profits, too? But that's not the free market capitalism that made this country great and that is the most efficient engine of commerce. That said, I'm certainly for supporting my LHS. To a degree. But realize that that "degree" is only so that the LHS is there when I need it, for MY convenience. Again, self interest. It's the only force that works long term. And I'm not unsympathetic to people who have been adversely affected by global competition (as I have been). I'm just saying we need to recognize that things have changed.
12-21-2010 | 01:22 PM
#165
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From: La Porte,
IN
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
ORIGINAL: SpinnerRow
Like was previously requested. It is easy to call us uneducated when you won't (or can't) provide examples to back up your claims.
Like was previously requested. It is easy to call us uneducated when you won't (or can't) provide examples to back up your claims.
12-21-2010 | 01:24 PM
#166
Senior Member
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RE: DLE Engine Pricing
If people think I care about looking good they need to reconsider. Billionaires don't reach that level of wealth by selling cheap. As for a fair or reasonable profit, or limiting profuts, most businesses will only limit a profit lever to what a market will bear. When the product no longerr sells, or suddenly reaches a decline involume when there is further available market to sell to, prices reduce to a lower level.
Power companies and railroads achieved their success through outright theft, coercion, murder, and deceit, supported by government members that profited on the side from those actions. Bad models for legal profit comparison since they did not enjoy "legal" profits during their first 75 years of operations. Capitalism is not the same as profiteering, and the Chinese, with their like minded associates, are certainly not practicing capitalism. You really need to look past simple sales and profits to better understand what is taking place here. The game plane is about leveraging a country and it's economy in order to gain control of both or more. The Chinese have been selling products for less than the actual manufacturing costs for a long time to achieve this goal. One of the reasons they have held their currency values to artificially low levels for so long. Of has eveyone ignored the blatant examples publicized everyday on the news and in the business publications? There's a reason they buy less than they sell by such a wide margin.
As for proof, you only have to look past your self limited viewpoints to find it. There's no reason me, or anyone else should be required to provide you a free education. I DO believe in capitalism and therefore would charge you for that education. As for government regulating profits, better look around. They are already doing so with pharmaceuticals, auto manufacturing, banking, and several other areas. Think I'm wrong? Run on down to your local pharmacy and ask what the government will allow them to bill for drugs and services. Same with other sectors in the medical professions. Then walk on over to the bank and see what a bank can make on a home repo. You might be surprised to find that bank is special and can make 150%+ on it's repo investment, plus whatever was owed by the people that lost the home.
Power companies and railroads achieved their success through outright theft, coercion, murder, and deceit, supported by government members that profited on the side from those actions. Bad models for legal profit comparison since they did not enjoy "legal" profits during their first 75 years of operations. Capitalism is not the same as profiteering, and the Chinese, with their like minded associates, are certainly not practicing capitalism. You really need to look past simple sales and profits to better understand what is taking place here. The game plane is about leveraging a country and it's economy in order to gain control of both or more. The Chinese have been selling products for less than the actual manufacturing costs for a long time to achieve this goal. One of the reasons they have held their currency values to artificially low levels for so long. Of has eveyone ignored the blatant examples publicized everyday on the news and in the business publications? There's a reason they buy less than they sell by such a wide margin.
As for proof, you only have to look past your self limited viewpoints to find it. There's no reason me, or anyone else should be required to provide you a free education. I DO believe in capitalism and therefore would charge you for that education. As for government regulating profits, better look around. They are already doing so with pharmaceuticals, auto manufacturing, banking, and several other areas. Think I'm wrong? Run on down to your local pharmacy and ask what the government will allow them to bill for drugs and services. Same with other sectors in the medical professions. Then walk on over to the bank and see what a bank can make on a home repo. You might be surprised to find that bank is special and can make 150%+ on it's repo investment, plus whatever was owed by the people that lost the home.
12-21-2010 | 01:46 PM
#167
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From: Whitestone,
NY
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
So if China allows their currency to rise you'll buy from Tower Hobbies? (on the condition that the owner is not yet a billionaire, of course...)
12-21-2010 | 01:52 PM
#168
Thread Starter
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
There's no reason me, or anyone else should be required to provide you a free education. I DO believe in capitalism and therefore would charge you for that education.
There's no reason me, or anyone else should be required to provide you a free education. I DO believe in capitalism and therefore would charge you for that education.
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That'll do for now and would give me a better idea if I would like to employ your services or not.
ORIGINAL: microdon2
So if China allows their currency to rise you'll buy from Tower Hobbies? (on the condition that the owner is not yet a billionaire, of course...)
So if China allows their currency to rise you'll buy from Tower Hobbies? (on the condition that the owner is not yet a billionaire, of course...)
12-21-2010 | 02:27 PM
#169
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
One of the reasons they have held their currency values to artificially low levels for so long. Of has eveyone ignored the blatant examples publicized everyday on the news and in the business publications? There's a reason they buy less than they sell by such a wide margin.
One of the reasons they have held their currency values to artificially low levels for so long. Of has eveyone ignored the blatant examples publicized everyday on the news and in the business publications? There's a reason they buy less than they sell by such a wide margin.
Reckon that's deliberate or just the results of years of financial waste and bad management?
12-21-2010 | 02:45 PM
#170
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From: La Porte,
IN
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
SpinnerRow,
Can we hold on bit before starting class?
I need to transfer over to the laptop, feed it to the big flat screen, ready some popcorn,
and then I'll be ready for 'class'!
Can we hold on bit before starting class?
I need to transfer over to the laptop, feed it to the big flat screen, ready some popcorn,
and then I'll be ready for 'class'!
12-21-2010 | 02:53 PM
#171
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From: Whitestone,
NY
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
Jim - might want to keep a low profile about where your laptop and flatscreen were made. Some "teachers" are sensitive about that kind of thing. Hopefully your popcorn is indigenous...
12-21-2010 | 02:58 PM
#173
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From: Bismarck, ND
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
The whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. Just accept it. Whether you buy from Tower or not, we are all doomed. The whole world. We're goners. Kaput. End of story.
12-21-2010 | 03:11 PM
#175
Thread Starter
RE: DLE Engine Pricing
ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer
SpinnerRow,
Can we hold on bit before starting class?
I need to transfer over to the laptop, feed it to the big flat screen, ready some popcorn,
and then I'll be ready for 'class'!
SpinnerRow,
Can we hold on bit before starting class?
I need to transfer over to the laptop, feed it to the big flat screen, ready some popcorn,
and then I'll be ready for 'class'!
ORIGINAL: Woody218-RCU
The whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. Just accept it. Whether you buy from Tower or not, we are all doomed. The whole world. We're goners. Kaput. End of story.
The whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. Just accept it. Whether you buy from Tower or not, we are all doomed. The whole world. We're goners. Kaput. End of story.
ORIGINAL: microdon2
Hopefully your popcorn is indigenous...
Hopefully your popcorn is indigenous...
