Guys,
I just got my DA50 back from DA to be checked. Slight prop strike. Everything was fine. They test ran it, and it checked out good.
Problem is that I can't get it to run right here in GA. I never really have figured it out. I have played with the needle settings like crazy, and no luck. It takes forever to start it. Many times, it will turn over and run for about 1 second, and then quickly die. One would THINK this means it is too lean, so I richen the low end out slowly 1/16 at a time, and the same happens. Then I lean the low end 1/16 at a time, and no luck either. Plug is VERY clean, but wet.
Sometimes I smell gas, and it seems flooded, but it would seem that the engine would at least turn over when flooded.
I keep going back to the factory needle settings with no luck of easily starting the engine.
I know there are a million factors coming into play here, but could someone give some advice on what is MOST LIKELY happening here? I don't know, but it seems like I'm doing this in the correct procedure, but no luck.
Another thing I notice, is that SOMETIMES when it DOES start, a HOT RE-START is virtually impossible, but sometimes it is easy. Why?
I am wondering if the ignition is to blame, but before I send it in, I would like some advice on what to try first. This is my first gas engine, so I'm not ruling out human error. Thanks fellas.

Hi Paul!!

I have a DA50 and what a nice and impressive engine!!

My needle settings were out by quite a bit when I got the engine so I started at 1 1/2 turns out on each needle and slowly closed the low 1/16 of a turn till it ran good, but don't forget that when you play with the low end it also affects the top end so you when you close the low you will have to open the top at some point

Hey Paul are you flipping this engine fast? The prop has to go by the sensor with a good bit of speed. It has to sense a bit of rpm to fire , a safety feature.

Cold I flip 7 times choke on full throttle, then ing at idle first flip it starts. Most people dont belive it will start that easy.

Hot I flip it 4 times with the throttle open, then idle and ing on first flip.

I have not found the difference in the neddle setting to be to important for the ease starting. Also I never try to start with the choke on untill it fires one time. This has always caused me flooding problems on all my gas engines.

If this dosent help send it to me and let me try it.

Kent

My first gas engine gave me fits until I found out what was wrong. My symptoms were similar and it turned out to be a combination of a leaking fuel like and a bad (intermittant) ignition switch. That doesn't mean yours are bad, but don't wait too long before checking these easy items like I did.

From my experience, the needles are not critical to make it run. The factory settings should be close enough to start it.

Tom

I choke mine with quarter throttle until it fires, usually 4-6 flips. Then choke off and throttle to idle. Usually starts within 1-2 flips. I had to richen both needles from the factory setting, this got me 3-4 hundred rpm's off the peak for the break-in. Restarts don't require choking; I leave at idle and 1-2 flips has her running. Like others have stated, you have to flip the prop through fast. This is my first gasser too and it runs sweet with gobs of power!

This one can be answered by DA directly. Tell them the symptoms with as much detail as possible. I'd give them a call. You'll have to wait until monday and it may take until tuesday to get them on the phone. The phones are very busy there at DA...for obvious reasons so be patient. You have to keep trying and keep trying until you do get though. I'm sure they can tell you what is going on. If it won't run at factory needle settings I would leave it alone until you find the cause. It should start and run. IGN engines (especially DA's) are not finicky unless something is wrong in the setup. Check you lines...be sure there are no air leaks around the lines and that they are secure. Make sure any filters are not clogged. If you are using a small hobby filter chuck it and get a big weedeater size filter. It has to flow. Make sure the line is at least 1/8th ID and that the tubes on the tank is 1/8" ID...at least. i use the large 5/32 and 5/32 line. I also use Easy Flex gas line from Aerotrend. Make sure you vent line is clear and not plugged as this will cause the carb not to pump fuel. Take the spinner and rock it back and forth bumping it against compression on both sides until you see fuel coming up the line...it should move about an 1/8" at a time everytime you bump compression and the diaphragm pumps. Check your IGN battery. Don't just load test it...check it under load right after the engine has been running...especially if it is a 4.8 v NiCd! It may not have enough energy to keep up with the current demand of the IGN. This is why I use Duralite Plus's with regulators. The voltage will stay up from first flight to last. Remove Plug and touch plug to cylinder and flip prop with authority to see if it is sparking good. You should see a good blue spark. If it is orange or wimpy there could be a problem with the IGN although this would be highly unlikely as the DA IGN's are probably the best on the market. I feel pretty certain it is something simple, but there are alot of simple things to check. I bet I could get that thing running like a top in less than 10 minutes if I was there. That's another idea that just popped in. Get somebody that has one of these or somebody that's run DA's to look at it or an Unlimited flier or 3d pilot or just somebody with alot of hands on. The IGN engines are very reliable. There really isn't much that can go wrong mechanically with them as they are a great engine and are designed right. It's just about gotta be something in the setup somewhere.

Paul:
You are getting lots of good pointers from some real experts. One thing you might try is to loosen the hall sensor plate a retard it a few degrees. Lots of times they are set for maximum RPM and advanced so far that it makes starting harder. Worth a try and is easy to do. Be sure and mark the housing where it was first located so you can return it to the exact location if need be.
Paul Eagon
PS Did you get the tailwheel yet?

Paul,
Yes, I did get the tailwheel, and thanks very much.
Everyone,
I have not checked the switch or battery yet, but I'm running a 6 volt 1700mah pack and heavy duty switch. Both are brand new, but I know they could still be the culprit.
I don't feel that I'm having a set up issue. I feel that I'm flooding the engine and making it hard to start. I'm about to start messing with it right now. Will keep you guys posted. THanks for all the help.

Ok guys,
I have checked all the fuel lines. No problems there. Like I said, I have a 6 volt pack w/new Cermark HD switch on IGN. I really have no way of checking the battery under load right now, but I will see if someone can help with that.
When I flip the prop to check for spark. I do see a little blue spark, but it doesn't seem that it is much of a spark to me. Again, something I'm not too sure about.
It took me 10 minutes to get it to run. Same thing happened. It would fire and run for about 1 second and die. It did this about 10 times, and then it finally ran. However, I was trying to set the needles, and when I tried to transition from idle to full throttle, the engine would hesitate to transition. I then put it back at idle, and the engine just died. Can't get it to restart. My fingers have blisters on them from the prop.
P.S. This engine just came back from DA to get a check up from a prop strike. Everything was fine, and DA test ran the engine. However, I did not send the IGN in, because it wasn't necessary.

Guys,
Well, I went back outside to try and run the engine again. I finally got it to run with the needle settings at 1 1/8th out on the low and about 1 1/2 out on the high.
I will say that it still was kind of hard to crank, but I got it to run and transition. I have either been severly flooding the engine, or the IGN is going in and out. I still feel that I have a weak IGN.
How visible is the spark supposed to be? I can only see a tiny little blue spark jumping back and forth in between the gap of the plug. The spark is by no means a big one. Myself and my father both feel that it is NOT what it should be.

Hey Paul, outside in the sun or even shade you won't see a bright lite. My low neddle is at 1 3/4 and the high is at almost 2. If you are at 1 1/8 your not getting enough fuel . My engine has been set here for 22 gals. Try it ,it wont hurt.

Kent

Ok guys,
Well, I ran my DA50 through 8 tanks of fuel today. In the air, it ran great, with a little more burbling than I like, but it ran. I think the low end is somewhere between 1 1/8 and 1 1/2 out. The high end is around 2 out.
I am STILL having problems cranking though.
I choke the engine until it pops, and then when I go to choke OFF, it takes a TON of flips to get it to run. Most of the time it will start and run for about 1 second, and then abruptly die. I keep flipping, and it keeps starting up, and then dies immediately. When it does finally stay running, it will rev UP, and then DOWN, rev UP, and then DOWN, almost as if I'm doing it with the throttle stick.
This always makes me think it is starving for fuel, but if I richen the low end up, it won't transition. It will have major hesitation, when I try to transition from idle to full throttle.
Also, when the plane is in the air, the high end burbles just a little every now and then, so it seems that the high needle is rich, but in no way too lean. (I would think)
I'm calling DA tomorrow, but wondered if you guys had any other info to share with me, that may help out. Thanks fellas.

Hey Paul are you still using that greasy 2 stroke oil that they recommend. Why not try some syntetic type oil at 50 to 1 and see what happens. The oil in the mix does not create any power, at 50 to 1 you get more gas per volume of mix. Its worth a try.

Kent

Paul, you may need to partially choke your engine after full choking it. It's a common condition with some new 2 cycle gas engines. I would recommend that after the engine pops but does not start.. leave the choke closed about 1/2 and flip the prop. The engine should start because your getting sufficient gas and air. Let it run for a bit then take off the choke.. let it run a little more and then advance your throttle to see the throttle response. The factory needle settings are not set in stone but are good starting points. The actual settings depend on a lot of factors including the weather, gas, oil, prop etc. Hope this helps.. let us know. BobH.

Mine did this the first couple of times I run it. What I did was choke it again until it fired then choke off and it would run fine. Now it starts everytime after 1 choking.
I put 3 more flights on it today, but after the first landing the motor quit taxiing back. Refueled it and it started no problem, but I couldn't advance the throttle without the motor quitting. I richened the low end about 1/8 turn and all was good.
You may have to keep playing with the needles, sounds like you're getting close with it!

Thanks for all the help guys.
Kent,
I will be trying some synthetic soon. I've got to see what I can get at the local stores around here. If not, I'll order Amsoil off the net I guess.
I know I'll end up loving this engine if I can get this quirk worked out.

Paul,
After reading some more of this, especially the part about the "it fires and runs then dies" part. I think your sensor needs to be retarded some. You can't hurt anything on a DA by moving it...not even by moving it from as far as it will go in both directions. What I would do is move it back about halfway from where it is sitting now. Do mark where the edge of it is so that you can put it back exactly should this not work out. I did this on my 100 and it made some difference in the way it started. I bet you have a prop that is a pretty high load on there don't you? Also I noticed that you are getting ready to switch over to full synthetic...be sure to follow that DA manual to the letter on the breakin, and the part about the oil after breakin. I would still give Dave J. a call about the engine. You really need to get answers about this from 'the horses mouth' so to speak. It is very unusual for a DA not to start rich...very very unusual. The one thing I don't know much about on that engine is that rear induction as that is the first engine that DA has put out that has that. You really need to make sure there isn't something going on that could do damage to the engine. It could be something wrong with the carb or something back on there on the induction. If the engine is flooding like you suspect you could do damage to the rods. The guys here are real good at finding things, but THE man to talk to is Dave about his engines. Brian can help you too if Dave is not in. These engines are works of art, and I would hate for anything to happen to even one of them. It is rare for anything to go wrong with them as they check those things very good, but some things are hidden until it's ran for awhile, or it could've simply developed a problem. Those guys are very good at what they do, and I gaurantee you they can help you. They are very thorough over the phone to make sure they give complete advice on things. Try the above and give them a call.

Aero,
Thanks for the advice. Yours is always respected, and appreciated. I can tell you know about DA's. The timing is something that I'm really kind of ignorant about, but I have been following the thread that you started regarding adjusting the timing.
I will call them in the morning, and see what is going on. Thanks for all the help.
P.S. I have followed their break-in instructions exactly. Now, if I can find a place that's got Amsoil!