Well put. ON FG they have short of, pulled my membership for saying anything remotely negative about the "Big names" in rc aircrafts....
I am glad there are people like you around on the forums... Otherwise it would be as sterile as heart surgery of an experience....when looking through these posts....No joke...

Justin...

As far as "Needing" a upgrade on your engine....
All of the Da 85cc that were sold of recent are already upgraded...
If you have had yours for 2=years... call them up... They will know..

They went above and beyound for me...so good as ever.

I will renig my statement as posted in Post#13. If you take the time and read and can digest what the real problem is, as Dick and others have posted on this thread, you will maybe understand the point I was origionally trying to make.I simply can not sit by and not defend what I wrote. That is unacceptaible to me..
"Tired Old man" and others did not read the context of my origional post and immediately started rediculing without completely understanding the problem. "Tired Old man", in two seperate posts #'s 10 and #20, gave your opinion without reading and understanding. You have a bad habit of this, and Surprise!, I do have a computer,and know how to use it. By the way, where I live has nothing to do with the content of the post..
Just to inform you, yes we do actually have running water, electricity and lights,and computers as well. "TiredOld Man," we sure are improving!!!!!!!!!No we don't live under any Bridges with our Ipods , depending on information, simply existing like a cave manand relying onthat informationon the internet for our daily living conditions and survival... Sorry to disappoint you but that is a fact. It's really True!

You have no idea what or why I posted this thread. It was not intended to flame or bad mouth any manufacturer or their policies, but to was intended to see if other people that own this engine, knew about a problem they do not publish on their website.Simple question and a Simple answer was all that was asked. Also you know absoutly nothing of how much I spend on an aircraft, nor doe's it matter. I will spend money to built a very nice aircraft, and that is none of you concern as well on how much I spend. Yes, I edited my comments to you and others that did not read the post.
I don't need the kind remarks of stupitity some people express without thinking before pounding on their keypad, Ipod , whatever.

W8YE in Post #3 stated," they don't get involved if the engine is running ok". He also missed the point here. After a failure is not the time to correct it. You pay dearly for a defect that they should have prevented in the first place. You call,answer: Oh, it's now out of the warrentey period, so it's your problem. We accept MasterCard , American express, but we can not accept Medicare. No we only espeaka Engish, please press #1 to continue.
People pay top price for these engines, and If Da or any other manufacturer knows and has knowledge of a problems or defectswith their product, they should be required to let people know about it. As other people have posted on this subject,.

Any manufacturer has a responsibility to correct a defect if they know a problem exists and I don't care if it's in State, out of State or out of this Country .

Do they wait to save money by avoiding necessary repairs needed? Of course they do.Ask Toyota about the Lawsuits that were filed because of defective brakes. They knew about it, but Failed to Perform until people got Killed because of their lack of Responsibility..
I gota recall notice on the Vehicle I own and got mine fixed when I found outabout it.As another poster here commented, it is a Safety issue. If an Engine blows up and they knew about the problem, but did not tell anybody, wouldn't that fit into the same catagory as Defetctive Brakes??? ? Yes it would. Come on now, think about it for a second or two.
Suppose,you are flying Giant ScaleAircraft, the engine blows up, you loose contol due to the damage, RX., batteries, airframe etc,whatever, then the plane crashes into a crowd of people. What would happen after that kind of disaster if it happened,??? Ask your self that exact question.and some poor sole got injured or Killed? I am just trying to get something clear here an into a proper prospective and that is all. That was my only contention here and not to argue with people that don't understand the point I was trying to make.

<span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; ">Understand your point ?
Hellyou've edited every post other than this one so that makes it hard for me to understand your <u>original </u>point.

BUT .......

It sounds to me like you're just stirring the pot looking for a reaction (which you received), other wise you would have picked up the phone and called them immediately with any concerns instead of posting in a public forum.</span></span>
<br type="_moz" />

Here again somebody did not take the time to read the origional post,
I am nor have I ever tried to stirr any pot.. Lets get that clear here.
I just expained a problem. I am not sorry for defending my posts, and further do not intend this this to get out of control, by any means. Read the posts, take the time, read the Posts. If you don not get it,
reread it.. until you understand what is going on here. Please..

Yes I did refrain from language on a Public Forum and in fact did edit those remarks. Thatt were not necessary. Yes I do edit my posts quite often, reason........., RCU'S editor is quite a bit slow in correcting typo's. use it, you will understand the reason for some of the edit's .If you have not used it, you are in for another Surpisse.

Maybe you should switch to decaf and lay off the energy drinks.

I read your original posts and though I don't fully agree with your (original) position I do completely understand your point. The problem for anyone reading this thread now is how you've edited all your posts. Now the whole thing makes no sense at all, anyone that didn't have the opportunity to read your original posts can't possibly understand what you wanted them to.

If you have problems with the RCU editor, compose your posts in a Word document. It will also help you correct all your spelling and syntax errors before you post it the first time, then just simply copy and paste it into your post.

Jody. I here again do apologise for typo's and do edit them when they seemappropiate.
I do not profess to be a compuer Guru
Actually all of the edit's I did weresimply to correct improper language I used. Yes I did get a bit hostile in some of the replies,editing those remarks was necessary on my part. I freely admit that.

Sometimes people get upset with other peoples remarks that arenot relavent to the post that was intended.

This Threadunraveled andcontroversial conflicts transpired. during this. I should have just kept quiet as I stated earlier, butit just got more involvedthan just answering a simple question I asked in the beginning of this Thread. post #1.. Then the tempers started flaring, largly on my part,.
It was never intended ot go this extreme.
I am not blameing anyone for remarks I stated in earlier posts but mysel and I admit that again.. This whole escapade Ihope will resolve itself in due time,. if not so be it.Let it stand as written.

.

</p>

What goes around - Comes around!

FLAPhappy,

I also read and fully understood your original post and my original point remains the same. DA is doings things as they have always done things. Even the original DA 50, which had a plethora of problems, has been pretty much handled through customer returns and call in. For the most part people learned of issues and upgrades through the internet with engine owners spreading the word on public forums or when someone returned an engine for repairs after a crash. So the need to be at least semi literate with communications technology and access to a keyboard is still paramount to obtaining information. Lamenting how some people may not have internet was a pretty weak complaint, and it implied you were among them.

I jumped to no conclusions, nor did I take a stand of superior position. I only mentioned the facts, noted DA is noted for having "great customer service", and commented that people should not be blaming a company for their personal failure to keep up with the times. No, one does not need to bank online, have a debit card, mail letters using the USPS, or use a film based camera for photography, but life becomes a lot easier if they at least try to use the tools that have been placed in front of them. That includes the use of a telephone to place a voice request for information. That you failed to do even that before starting this thread was quite evident by the questions posed in the initiating post.

You'll find I tend to look beyond the patently obvious when a question is posed to determine what a problem might really be. Many become offended after an expose'.

Where I fly, the DA engines out number the DL/DLE engines 10:1 or any other brand of gas engine for that matter..

DA never contacted any of the DA owners about upgrades. The owners always found out by failure or word of mouth from a friend and inquiry to DA.

However, I have never heard a complaint from the DA owners.

Some of these engines have sat around for years and have been used very little. Therefore no failures and no complaints.

I have not seen any in flight stoppages directly related to any possible inferior DA parts. The majority of in flight problems are items such as carb adjustment, fuel tank, and muffler fell off problems.

Most failures have been a gradual degradation of performance or directly related to a crash.

The days of a DA, 3w, BME or any of the other long established majors experiencing a catastropic failure are long past, ending about 7 years ago. Bearing failures, case separations, rod failures just don't happen in those engines any more so the threat of a "flight safety' or "dangerous" failure are pretty much nil. Reflecting there are risks to public saftey is a gross exaggeration. Because an engine fails to run does not make an aircraft uncontrollable. How an operator exerts control is the real safety issue.

Taking the above to another level, most flight safety issues, with a running or not running engine, is 100% related to the skill and mind set of the operator. No engine can offset poor judgement on the part of the user. Altitude and direction are generally under full control of the operator, making any safety issues one of operator inducement. Gliders don't have any engine yet they are only a safety threat when operated in an unsafe manner. Same applies to powered aircraft, engine or motor powered.

When trying to find a place to assign fault or liability, look first at the true source instead of trying to lay it elsewhere. An engine does not make an airplane crash. It only turns a plane into a glider. How the operator deals with a glider is completely up to him or her. Most RC engine manufacturers will replace or repair a defective engine but they typically don't cover damage or loss of the airframe, largely for that reason. If assigning liability was the intent of the original post, which has been massaged from the orignal text, then I have now addressed it in the manner I believe applies to the most recent stated positon.

Well, this certainly has gotten interesting. I understand what Flaphappy initially intended to broach: it is remarkable (if not surprising) that DA doesn't have a more active information distribution process with current customers. In most cases, the shipping and sales records certainly exist to distributors and direct customers and if it comes to sending out postcards that could be done. If the problem was considered serious enough a note on the website would get the word out quickly.

However, from what I've seen and heard the nature of the "defects" with the DA 85 do not always manifest in ways requiring a blanket recall.

Any product can fail. I don't think anyone ever said DA makes the best most foolproof products. In my experience that is not true. I agree with those who believe DA gives the best service possible. In my experience parts and repair service are done quickly, and often exceed expectations.

I've got two DA 85's. One with a SN of around 400 if memory serves, the other a SN of about 1500. Both shake like crazy. Both provide tons of power and make me smile every time I fly them. The first one needed to go back for a thrust plate clearance issue within 1 month of purchase (from Chief). I eventually sent it back for the piston upgrade and also aluminum carb mount screws to steel replacements.

There are 5 DA 85's in my club, and 4 have been sent back for upgrades. DA is always very receptive to questions by phone, and responsive to service. That is what gives them the edge in worldwide small engine game. I think they realized this early, and bank on this reputation.

I don't use my engines in "critical" applications, nor do I fly them in ways that pose threats to myself or spectators should I lose an engine. If people are using them this way I expect they take steps to mitigate known problems with their equipment, and would do the research and experimentation needed to get the required systems reliability.

As I said, any product can fail. To extend, here's another example: I own and operate around a dozen Saito engines from .72 to 1.80 in size. I love them. However in recent history there were several that came with bearings that failed within 1 month of purchase. I did the swaps myself cause it was faster for me to do with what I considered superior parts, and I didn't want to wait for service. Others in my club had similar failures. I expect Saito had a batch of "rusty" bearings and didn't do effective QA which would have prevented the issue. AND/OR the bearings they choose simply are substandard.

In any case, did I expect Saito to issue recalls? No. Granted these are less expensive motors, and less is at risk with engine failure. But still they are among the most expensive powerplants I own and one would like to think the makers of these do everything possible to prevent and rectify such mistakes. To an extent, they do.

Of note should be the fact that manufacturers have the perception they don't need to maintain contact with the customers or notify them on a blanket basis of known or suspected issues. The cause of that has been 100% customer in origin. Had customers been a little more actionable when problems arose instead of lavishly providing brand loyalty things would be different now. Unfortunately what became evident to maufacturers was their customer base was highly sensitive to peer and adverising pressure instead of actual quality. Too much desire to be part of a "class" instead of dealing with reality.

The best engine ever made have not been made in some time, but the heavy advertisers, be that in paid printed media, sponsoring "super" pilots at contests, paid web media, or free advertising using shills forum discussions, did a great job of taking market share from them.

you guys need a hobby. LOL.

You might have something with that