Does your DA50 do this?
04-14-2004, 10:16 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
Joe: mine is like yours after 7 gallons and getting it tuned it does not die like it did before.I think this is a rich low end that is doing it, mine would stumble and could catch it with a quick blip of throttle. I don't think it is a reed problem as you would have if flight problems. mine has been to DA twice for rod bearing and crank and bearings, and they have not said any thing and it ran the same both times after repair until I tuned it. good luck. Rick
04-14-2004, 10:57 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
I have to agree on the rich low end! It was doing it on my GP Cristen and I started over with the needles, 1 1/2 turns out on each. Readjusted my low and hi from there and the problem pretty much went away!
04-15-2004, 10:49 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
I sent an email to DA and got a email response as well as a phone call regarding this problem.
This is a problem related to a rich needle setting that usually occurs during idle.
Dave feels it is a product of the small case area. With a rich needle setting, fuel pools in the reed area during idle, then when the motor is bounced or forward motion is stopped, the pooled fuel is introduced into the case. With not a lot of excess room most of it ends up on the piston, at idle this results in the motor dying. In most cases, this goes away once the needles or brought in for the final adjustment.
He also stated they are aware of some needles changing settings at high rpm and are working on addressing that issue.
Also a note on DAs cutomer service. Recently I had to send my older 50 back for some crash damage repair. It was in and out in a two day turn around at what seemed to be a very fair price. Over all I have been very satisfied with the service and the product.
This is a problem related to a rich needle setting that usually occurs during idle.
Dave feels it is a product of the small case area. With a rich needle setting, fuel pools in the reed area during idle, then when the motor is bounced or forward motion is stopped, the pooled fuel is introduced into the case. With not a lot of excess room most of it ends up on the piston, at idle this results in the motor dying. In most cases, this goes away once the needles or brought in for the final adjustment.
He also stated they are aware of some needles changing settings at high rpm and are working on addressing that issue.
Also a note on DAs cutomer service. Recently I had to send my older 50 back for some crash damage repair. It was in and out in a two day turn around at what seemed to be a very fair price. Over all I have been very satisfied with the service and the product.
04-16-2004, 07:41 AM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
Here is the latest from Brian at DA.
There are "hundreds" of DA50s that have this problem, DA thinks it MAY be a problem in the Walbro carb but dosen't know yet. Walbro is investigating. Also the person that designed the DA50 is investigating. Right now if you press them on this they will send a replacement carburator which may or may not fix your problem.
They HAVE re-created this on a test plane at DA but are no closer to resolving it.
Joe
There are "hundreds" of DA50s that have this problem, DA thinks it MAY be a problem in the Walbro carb but dosen't know yet. Walbro is investigating. Also the person that designed the DA50 is investigating. Right now if you press them on this they will send a replacement carburator which may or may not fix your problem.
They HAVE re-created this on a test plane at DA but are no closer to resolving it.
Joe
04-16-2004, 10:27 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
GaryM and JBrannon go back and read my previous post on this problem, I don't have this problem any more. It is mixture as DA has stated and if you will get the break in done and set the low mixture as lean as you can get it all will be well.also I have had the needles change at high speed from vibration, all it takes is a spot and I mean a spot of blue locktite on the needles to tighten them up so they wont move. when they move they move RICH. good luck, these things really purr when broken in. Rick
04-17-2004, 07:01 AM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
Yes, DA says the problem has gone away in most engines after 8 or more gallons of fuel. But that is a long time to fight an engine that dies 3 times while taxiing to the runway and then dies again everytime your wheels touch the ground. There is obviuosly a prblem that goes a way as some part, whatever that part may be, wears in. Believe me, we have spent HOURS tweaking these needles.
Joe
Joe
ORIGINAL: GaryM
I sent an email to DA and got a email response as well as a phone call regarding this problem.
This is a problem related to a rich needle setting that usually occurs during idle.
Dave feels it is a product of the small case area. With a rich needle setting, fuel pools in the reed area during idle, then when the motor is bounced or forward motion is stopped, the pooled fuel is introduced into the case. With not a lot of excess room most of it ends up on the piston, at idle this results in the motor dying. In most cases, this goes away once the needles or brought in for the final adjustment.
He also stated they are aware of some needles changing settings at high rpm and are working on addressing that issue.
Also a note on DAs cutomer service. Recently I had to send my older 50 back for some crash damage repair. It was in and out in a two day turn around at what seemed to be a very fair price. Over all I have been very satisfied with the service and the product.
I sent an email to DA and got a email response as well as a phone call regarding this problem.
This is a problem related to a rich needle setting that usually occurs during idle.
Dave feels it is a product of the small case area. With a rich needle setting, fuel pools in the reed area during idle, then when the motor is bounced or forward motion is stopped, the pooled fuel is introduced into the case. With not a lot of excess room most of it ends up on the piston, at idle this results in the motor dying. In most cases, this goes away once the needles or brought in for the final adjustment.
He also stated they are aware of some needles changing settings at high rpm and are working on addressing that issue.
Also a note on DAs cutomer service. Recently I had to send my older 50 back for some crash damage repair. It was in and out in a two day turn around at what seemed to be a very fair price. Over all I have been very satisfied with the service and the product.
04-17-2004, 06:32 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
Have to agree it shouldn't take 8 or more gallons to have this problem go away. Don't think its the needle setting on mine either. Da always says they have never heard of this problem! Glad to see I'am not alone.
04-18-2004, 08:24 AM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
I have been talking to someone that has 15 years experience in design, manufacture and evaluation of 2 cycle chainsaw engines. His opinoin is that after some many gallons you finally get a good ring seat and that is when the problem goes away. He thinks a perfect ring seal on this engine is critcal because of the small cranckcase volume.
There would be a couple of ways to check his theory, compare the ring seal via a leakdown test between engines that fail and engines that dont. Or put some moly coated rings in that seat in 5 minutes run time. Or put a failing engine on a test stand and run it for 20 hours and see if iit no longer fails.
But the part that "wears in" after 8 gallons or so is most likely the rings.
Joe
There would be a couple of ways to check his theory, compare the ring seal via a leakdown test between engines that fail and engines that dont. Or put some moly coated rings in that seat in 5 minutes run time. Or put a failing engine on a test stand and run it for 20 hours and see if iit no longer fails.
But the part that "wears in" after 8 gallons or so is most likely the rings.
Joe
04-18-2004, 08:38 AM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
I have a new DA50 sitting here waiting to go on a Patty Wagstaff. Sounds like it might be smart to get some bench time on this engine? My DA100's are flawless so this was not expected.
04-18-2004, 09:29 AM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
Well just for the record, I bought mine in January and haven't had a deadstick or engine quit at all, anywhere in 38 flights.
04-18-2004, 09:49 AM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
Hi Guys!!
I have two DA50's both with the same problem, in fact I have them in Wagstaff's Awesome combo!1.I was doing the wall the other day and the engine would almost quit, but on the 3rd one it did. It also reacts this way in the blender, so any abrupt stop seems to affect the idle thats for sure.
I will program idle down feature in my radio until I get more run time on the two engines before I talk to DA. I will post again when I have more fuel through the two engines.
Thanks
Dan
I have two DA50's both with the same problem, in fact I have them in Wagstaff's Awesome combo!1.I was doing the wall the other day and the engine would almost quit, but on the 3rd one it did. It also reacts this way in the blender, so any abrupt stop seems to affect the idle thats for sure.
I will program idle down feature in my radio until I get more run time on the two engines before I talk to DA. I will post again when I have more fuel through the two engines.
Thanks
Dan
04-18-2004, 06:15 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
You got 1 of the few that are reliable.
Joe
Joe
ORIGINAL: BackAfter30
Well just for the record, I bought mine in January and haven't had a deadstick or engine quit at all, anywhere in 38 flights.
Well just for the record, I bought mine in January and haven't had a deadstick or engine quit at all, anywhere in 38 flights.
04-18-2004, 07:24 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
And here I thought these were the PERFECT engine. 
All you read about is DA-50 this, DA 50 that. Don't get a Zenoah G-62, weighs too much yada, yada....I've got 117 hours on my G-62, and Ralph put his ignition on it at 100 hours. Turns a Mejzlik 22 x 10 at 7700 the last time I checked. Not one dead stick. I think I'll hang on to it. Sure would hate to have a motor quit on me doing a wall with my Wild Hare Edge 10 feet off the deck.
All you read about is DA-50 this, DA 50 that. Don't get a Zenoah G-62, weighs too much yada, yada....I've got 117 hours on my G-62, and Ralph put his ignition on it at 100 hours. Turns a Mejzlik 22 x 10 at 7700 the last time I checked. Not one dead stick. I think I'll hang on to it. Sure would hate to have a motor quit on me doing a wall with my Wild Hare Edge 10 feet off the deck.
04-18-2004, 09:26 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
The problem has not showed up in my two motors while in the air. Only after on the ground and spinning it around at the end of the runnway. I do use the idle up/down programed on a switch. So maybe the extra 600 or 700 rpm is keeping it from dying while it is tumbling.
I dont think I would be giving up or writing off the DA50 just yet. These guys didnt get to where they are by just taking things in stride. I think they will get it worked out.
Gary
I dont think I would be giving up or writing off the DA50 just yet. These guys didnt get to where they are by just taking things in stride. I think they will get it worked out.
Gary
04-19-2004, 07:30 AM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
This problem has plagued many people !
Got to wonder why DA doesn't sent out a notice of this problem and the fix to it's customers.
With electronic messaging it would be easy for them to post a notice here ?
Got to wonder why DA doesn't sent out a notice of this problem and the fix to it's customers.
With electronic messaging it would be easy for them to post a notice here ?
04-19-2004, 08:00 AM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
He Nogyro, I've been running my G-62 hard since 1989 and It runs flawlessly to this day. I just replaced the jug and ring due to a mishap and I used an old spare piston and jug and it fired back to life and went right up to it's normal 7600 rpm. I know they're a little on the heavy side, but some of these guys should never ever bad mouth these Zenoahs, because when it comes to reliability they are #1 I also own a Brison 6.4, BME102, D&B 5.1, and all of them run excellent.
04-19-2004, 09:30 AM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
Yes, there are many fine engines out there, I can understand your need to vent when it comes to this, but please dont hijack this thread.
Joe
Joe
ORIGINAL: frankflyboy1
He Nogyro, I've been running my G-62 hard since 1989 and It runs flawlessly to this day. I just replaced the jug and ring due to a mishap and I used an old spare piston and jug and it fired back to life and went right up to it's normal 7600 rpm. I know they're a little on the heavy side, but some of these guys should never ever bad mouth these Zenoahs, because when it comes to reliability they are #1 I also own a Brison 6.4, BME102, D&B 5.1, and all of them run excellent.
He Nogyro, I've been running my G-62 hard since 1989 and It runs flawlessly to this day. I just replaced the jug and ring due to a mishap and I used an old spare piston and jug and it fired back to life and went right up to it's normal 7600 rpm. I know they're a little on the heavy side, but some of these guys should never ever bad mouth these Zenoahs, because when it comes to reliability they are #1 I also own a Brison 6.4, BME102, D&B 5.1, and all of them run excellent.
04-19-2004, 11:33 AM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
Well said JBrannon. I wish we could get to the bottom of this problem. Weather hasn't been to good for flying here hopefully, I can start playing with my engine soon. Amazed that all of a sudden this problem is just surfacing now!
04-19-2004, 12:56 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
ORIGINAL: JBrannon
Yes, there are many fine engines out there, I can understand your need to vent when it comes to this, but please dont hijack this thread.
Joe
Yes, there are many fine engines out there, I can understand your need to vent when it comes to this, but please dont hijack this thread.
Joe
Joe,
We're not bashing the DA-50. I'm sure it's is a fine engine, the craftmanship of it looks superb. But you have to admit most guys enjoy bashing the Zenoah line of engines. I think it's great that you brought this problem with the DA-50 dieing at idle to everyone's attention. I think there are compromises to be made on all the different brands of engines. For reliability and no fussing with the needle adjustments, I think the Zenoah's are hard to beat.
04-19-2004, 01:36 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
Nogyro
Many at our club will agree with you on the Zenoah !
They are used in great numbers at our club because of their reliability.
Some also believe they have more power than advertised.
A good engine indeed.
I'm hoping that the DA-50, when broken in, will also be a great engine.
I like the compact size for fitting in cowling's without cutting for the carb.
My only wish is that the DA-50 had a longer nose so the cylinder sat back a little further.
When mine runs, its powerful.
Many at our club will agree with you on the Zenoah !
They are used in great numbers at our club because of their reliability.
Some also believe they have more power than advertised.
A good engine indeed.
I'm hoping that the DA-50, when broken in, will also be a great engine.
I like the compact size for fitting in cowling's without cutting for the carb.
My only wish is that the DA-50 had a longer nose so the cylinder sat back a little further.
When mine runs, its powerful.
04-19-2004, 01:44 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
Doesn't matter to me if you bash it or not, but I would prefer this thread continue on about the problem with the DA50 dieing at idle than a debate about differant engine manufacturers and which are more popular, powerful or reliable. There are already plenty of threads for that.
Thanks, Joe
Thanks, Joe
ORIGINAL: Nogyro
Joe,
We're not bashing the DA-50. I'm sure it's is a fine engine, the craftmanship of it looks superb. But you have to admit most guys enjoy bashing the Zenoah line of engines. I think it's great that you brought this problem with the DA-50 dieing at idle to everyone's attention. I think there are compromises to be made on all the different brands of engines. For reliability and no fussing with the needle adjustments, I think the Zenoah's are hard to beat.
ORIGINAL: JBrannon
Yes, there are many fine engines out there, I can understand your need to vent when it comes to this, but please dont hijack this thread.
Joe
Yes, there are many fine engines out there, I can understand your need to vent when it comes to this, but please dont hijack this thread.
Joe
Joe,
We're not bashing the DA-50. I'm sure it's is a fine engine, the craftmanship of it looks superb. But you have to admit most guys enjoy bashing the Zenoah line of engines. I think it's great that you brought this problem with the DA-50 dieing at idle to everyone's attention. I think there are compromises to be made on all the different brands of engines. For reliability and no fussing with the needle adjustments, I think the Zenoah's are hard to beat.
04-19-2004, 03:16 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
If the ring seat is the issue you might try some higher oil content 2-cycle oil. I haven't run my DA 50 yet, but I gave up on 100:1 oil a long time ago. Try something in the 40-50:1 oil range. It's been written that most 2-cycle engines will produce more power with more oil anyway.
I'm not saying that the 100:1 Amsoil dosen't protect well, but it might not provide as good of a seal around the ring as it should.......maybe that's why Amsoil makes the 50:1 racing oil.
Wiz
I'm not saying that the 100:1 Amsoil dosen't protect well, but it might not provide as good of a seal around the ring as it should.......maybe that's why Amsoil makes the 50:1 racing oil.
Wiz
ORIGINAL: JBrannon
I have been talking to someone that has 15 years experience in design, manufacture and evaluation of 2 cycle chainsaw engines. His opinoin is that after some many gallons you finally get a good ring seat and that is when the problem goes away. He thinks a perfect ring seal on this engine is critcal because of the small cranckcase volume.
There would be a couple of ways to check his theory, compare the ring seal via a leakdown test between engines that fail and engines that dont. Or put some moly coated rings in that seat in 5 minutes run time. Or put a failing engine on a test stand and run it for 20 hours and see if iit no longer fails.
But the part that "wears in" after 8 gallons or so is most likely the rings.
Joe
I have been talking to someone that has 15 years experience in design, manufacture and evaluation of 2 cycle chainsaw engines. His opinoin is that after some many gallons you finally get a good ring seat and that is when the problem goes away. He thinks a perfect ring seal on this engine is critcal because of the small cranckcase volume.
There would be a couple of ways to check his theory, compare the ring seal via a leakdown test between engines that fail and engines that dont. Or put some moly coated rings in that seat in 5 minutes run time. Or put a failing engine on a test stand and run it for 20 hours and see if iit no longer fails.
But the part that "wears in" after 8 gallons or so is most likely the rings.
Joe
04-19-2004, 05:00 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
This thread IMHO has gone weird. What are you complaining about? It seems like a whining session. Brian did not say all the engines were doing this! He said "out of all of them there were just a couple". Get it straight if you are going to quote someone! MY DA50 IS RUNNING AND IDLEING EXCELLENT NOW AFTER 6 GALLONS! Did ya hear that??? I had some issues when it was in the first 2 gallons and they slowly disapeared. When I went to synthetic after 4 gallons everything but a great running and dependable engine went away. This will not be my last DA50 for sure. I'd take this over my BME 44 or my old G45 any day of the week. JMO!!!!!!! If anyone is having problems with their DA50 and would like to sell it to me for cheap please PM me. !~)
This thread could be about solutions if anyone is interested.
I was forunate enought to have someone who has this engine as a flying partner and he
helped me through these interesting situations that some but not all experience.
have fun flying model planes!
Joe !~)
This thread could be about solutions if anyone is interested.
I was forunate enought to have someone who has this engine as a flying partner and he
helped me through these interesting situations that some but not all experience.
have fun flying model planes!
Joe !~)
04-19-2004, 05:59 PM
#49
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
WRONG, he said there are "hundreds" doing it. I have expeirience with 2 myself out of 2, that a 100 % failure rate. The real problem is everytime someone calls DA about this they say "Gee we never heard of it, you must need to adjust your needles"
Joe
Joe
ORIGINAL: Goekeli
This thread IMHO has gone weird. What are you complaining about? It seems like a whining session. Brian did not say all the engines were doing this! He said "out of all of them there were just a couple". Get it straight if you are going to quote someone! MY DA50 IS RUNNING AND IDLEING EXCELLENT NOW AFTER 6 GALLONS! Did ya hear that??? I had some issues when it was in the first 2 gallons and they slowly disapeared. When I went to synthetic after 4 gallons everything but a great running and dependable engine went away. This will not be my last DA50 for sure. I'd take this over my BME 44 or my old G45 any day of the week. JMO!!!!!!! If anyone is having problems with their DA50 and would like to sell it to me for cheap please PM me. !~)
This thread could be about solutions if anyone is interested.
I was forunate enought to have someone who has this engine as a flying partner and he
helped me through these interesting situations that some but not all experience.
have fun flying model planes!
Joe !~)
This thread IMHO has gone weird. What are you complaining about? It seems like a whining session. Brian did not say all the engines were doing this! He said "out of all of them there were just a couple". Get it straight if you are going to quote someone! MY DA50 IS RUNNING AND IDLEING EXCELLENT NOW AFTER 6 GALLONS! Did ya hear that??? I had some issues when it was in the first 2 gallons and they slowly disapeared. When I went to synthetic after 4 gallons everything but a great running and dependable engine went away. This will not be my last DA50 for sure. I'd take this over my BME 44 or my old G45 any day of the week. JMO!!!!!!! If anyone is having problems with their DA50 and would like to sell it to me for cheap please PM me. !~)
This thread could be about solutions if anyone is interested.
I was forunate enought to have someone who has this engine as a flying partner and he
helped me through these interesting situations that some but not all experience.
have fun flying model planes!
Joe !~)
04-19-2004, 06:52 PM
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RE: Does your DA50 do this?
I have 2 DA 50's also, the second will be flying shortly in a 27% CA extra. All I'am saying is you should not have to wait for 4 to 8 gallons of fuel to run thought it for a reliable idle. I'am running 32to1 mix.