HI
I have been reading every forum on rc on the bme 110x for the past 3 months very mixed bag some good some bad
I have imported the 110 and the 37% ultimate to OZ and have had nothing but trouble with my 110x.I was hoping to report good thing about this engine
It looked like a beast. The people that say they are tested before they leave the factory that is crap in my case anyway.
The first thing was the timing was it was set to 110dergs BTDC no way that would start.
Once we had set the timing to 27derg BTDC we got it started. No. 2 we started with the carby needle at factory settings
Petrol was dripping from the bottom of the carby at idle.
Keith said it is the diaphragm and it was. We finely got the idle running ok No. 3 then we move to the high end big problems here
The engine started to sag after 3 minutes of running. So we shut it down (lean run) so we adjusted the high a qtr turn out and tried again
After 3 minutes same thing. We ended up with the high out 3 and qtr turns out and still the same. After stripping another wooden prop that’s a other story. I noted that it felt slightly ruff when I turned the hub. I took the mufflers off and Now the pistons are scored.
This was all done on the ground test no cowl was on the aircraft and never got to fly. Dose anyone know how to tune an engine without running it?
Now the engine is sent back to Keith at my cost. It has been nearly 4 weeks Keith has had the engine Emailing Keith and waiting for a reply is like waiting for grass to grow. However, I got a reply this morning he said it is not covered by warranty and it is going to cost me $300.00 US for the repairs + shipping. I see what people say about the service now.(you live and learn)
I think if the engine were tested at the factory, I would not be having all these Problems. For those people how will ask what prop etc.
26.x10 3w
32:1 just for run in
Stock mufflers
Looking forward to reply’s from anyone.

JL;
It sounds like your carb & timing settings were indeed incorrect. I could not begin to tell you what or why but I do wish to comment. If you made a very lean run & scored the cylinders, why would you expect BME to be responsible? Sure the carb & timing might have been wrong, but you were the one who chose to run engine, you were the one who scored the cylinders. Why couldn't you have sent the engine back when you detected something wrong? I know another person who scored the cylinders on his BME break-in. He did not ensure enough airflow over the jugs and ran hard the engine (tourque rolling) without concern for proper cooling. His inexperience caused him to damage the cylinders and he blamed BME for thier fault. As a bystander I clearly saw it different. Please I do not mean to say there were not issues, but you are the one that really did the damage. If you feel offended, I appoligise, but you were asking for input.

Since we are voicing opinions, I will tell you mine.
From the original post, John had been in contact with Keith before the engine ever started. If Keith thought the problem was serious enough that it would jeopardize the warranty, then he should have told John to return it. He did not. he worked with him through the problem. With this said, Keith seemed to be aware of the issues and thought it could be addressed without returning the engine. Now that the engine is damaged, the the warranty should still cover it because the user was working with the factory concerning the problems that he was having.

OK, here is my opinion.

Gas engines do not react to mixture like glow engines do. They either sag or fail to accept throttle right away, or keep running.
If a new gas engine sags after it first ran well from cold (3 minutes), this is caused by internal overheating. This way, new engines show they need more running time, more oil or both. Throttle should immediately be reduced, and the engine allowed to cool down. There is no need to stop the engine. If under these conditions you keep pushing the engine, something has got to go wrong.
I would also not consider this warranty, but a customer induced error.
Gas engines need to be run in properly. The seller should point that out well if queried.
I once got an engine back that showed the same symptoms. I offered to run it in for the customer. After repeated short power bursts and low power in between, bye and bye the sagging went away as the engine ran in, and it became a *****cat.

DA

One of the worst things you can do to a gas engine is run it on the ground under large static loads (i.e. high RPM and someone holding the airplane) You induce loads larger than encountered in flight and you have the least airflow possible.

In flight, loads are much lower and airflow is much higher and you always want to take it easy on the first few flights (no WOT or hovering, etc).

The engine was burned up as a direct result of a lean setting and a high load. ... I wouldn't warranty it either.

I have only had my hands on one of these engines, while it didn't have the timing issue the one here did, it did run hot at first so we ran it blubbery rich on 30:1 petroleum oil for the first 4-5 flights (about a gallon) then we set the high needle a little leaner. After 4 gallons we switched over to 50:1 H1R and leaned it for max RPM - 300.. amazing power. I have nothing but good to say about this engine.


DP

I also have nothing but good things to say about my 110x and Keiths service too.

Sorry for your misfortune, but if you are running a new engine at full throttle for 3 min. on the ground I believe you created your own problems. I also believe that would happen to ANY gas engine regardless the manufacture.

I hope I did not assume anything wrong

I can't believe many of the responses I read. It's like you guys don't read or don't comprehend the original post. What I read is, that the engine was faulty from the very beginning, and could in no way have been run by BME prior to shipping. Yes, John Leigh ran the engine on the ground, on the plane, in periods of 3 minutes. Don't tell me you guys run a new engine for less than 3 minutes in a plane before getting airborne. For Christ sake, the guy couldn't get the engine running right, that's why it never got airborne. Nowhere does he say that he ran the engine WOT for 3 minutes. He says it started to sag after 3 min, to me that means something different. IMHO, BME is really not improving on their product or service image, by letting this guy down this way. The guy is across the other side of the world, shipping back and forth is expensive and time consuming, should we as modellers really only buy domestic manufactured engines, because we WILL HAVE to ship it, even when brand new? This is just another confirmation why I'm a DA guy.
DKjens

Had the engine been run by Keith before shipping it, like Da does #1 the timing issue would have not been a problem along with the diaphram issue. I would also think the needles would have been in the ball park also. I have an interest in the 110 for a future project and although this post is as is I will still take my chance's.. DA would make this good in a heart beat, and a friend in the process..Come on Keith, help this guy out, He bought your product. JMO

DKjens- He stated the engine started to sag after 3 min. and admitted a lean run. I aSSumed he meant after wot, hence my statement at the end of my post. Maybe he can clarify this for us.

Besides who doesn't set the needles right out of the box. NO factory setting can duplicate everyones operating environment. That is a must and should be done or everything there after is the buyers fault.

Now he did have other problems that he talked thru with Keith. But that does not pertain to the lean overheating run.

AND lastly, I AGREE that the engine should have been RUN at the factory to discover the first 2 problems so they could have been taken care of.
Agreed that some compensation from BME "might" be in order for the first 2 problems and inconvenience.
NOTHING anybody can do about a lean run but the owner.

I couldn't imagine how many people burn up their engines by running too lean. I would not expect BME to replace it if it were mine. Sorry.
I will have to call some of the "other mfgs" tell them I ran my new engine lean and see if they will send me a new engine. Heck, maybe once a year I will burn up the old one and replace with a brand new one. LOL


Not flaming you John. I just feel that some of these responses are a bit ridiculous. JMO.

My 110 was run before I got it so they do run their engines. Maybe this one just slipped through the cracks ? Im sure it happens with all of the mfgs.

It would seem the owner was trying to avoid a lean run, if not why did the needles end up 3-1/4 turns out. How can you possibly not inter a lean condition with the end result being what he had. Carb/motor was dicked from the get go..I still think he should get a new or repair on the house..

Damage could have already be done on the first run.

This discussion becomes interesting.
Some of you think, that the engine should be run before shipping.
Personally, I just check the engine, but dont run her, unless:
1) I modified the engine myself (like a new mod on the glow engines I build)
or:
2) The customer asks me to set the needles for him with engine running.
3) the customer asks me to do the first running in.

The customer buys a NIB engine,
Should it never have run??? I like mine NIB, never run. What about you guys.
(I know my new car has run under own power from the production line to the parking lot. )

My experience with the factory settings is, that though the needles are not far off, they still are off. It takes me only a few throttle blips on the engine to have the first rough setting near the ball park on the rich side. A new engine is rough, so most of the time the factory settings (IF they set needles) are slightly too lean.

Well your probably right, To score a piston in 3 minutes? It still has me shaking my head..

Read the original post! It does not say he ran it at WOT for three minutes.
I would never trust an engine to fly a plane that had not been run on the ground. I like to know that both needles are close before flying. I can't imagine anyone holding a 100 cc engine at WOT on the ground for 3 minutes.
I also think Keith should have had him send it in (at Keith's expense) because of the problems.

Bob

Pe,
If buying a glow engine then no, I don't want it run at the factory, or anywhere, since it will start absorbing moisture and rust. If it's a gasoline engine, and if the engine is advertised as having been test run, then that certaintly is a plus, and the oil and gasoline act as a lubricant and surface protector during shipping. If the engine was run at the factory, a faulty carburetor would have been caught in the QC, and Leigh obviously also had a faulty carburetor. BME should swallow this one IMHO, the engine was just to far off from the factory, and should be outright replaced at no cost.
DKjens

KLOTZ- I guess that's why I ASSumed he must have been really pushing it.

Prev-I do not care if my engines are run at the factory or not. But in this and some other cases things can be caught. Greatly increasing customer satisfaction and not disatisfaction. When you pay over a grand for a custom built engine people expect it to run. You can really hurt you business if problems continually arise.

I always run my engines a little before flying. I let them lope along at a fast idle with brief burst to set high/transition and of course low. When I am satified they will not dead stick I fly. My 110 was run before shipping.

preivers, I feel that all of these problems could have been completely avoided had BME run the engine prior to shipment. With a proper test setup the whole testing operation by the factory shouldn't take more than 15 minutes. Since BME indicates that all engines are supposed to be run before shipment and they knew that the customer was having problems, they should have requested the engine back before it was run. At this point I think BME should be willing to help the customer with reduced repair charges or eat the repairs.

However, at this point I have only heard one side of the story and my opinion is subject to change should new facts come to light.

Ken

How many of you guys who would warranty the engine --have ever been in manufacturing and sales?
The customer had problems - however the business of the 3 minute run to a sag tells a lot about his familiarity with engines .
This is the heart of the matter.
The run in instructions really should cover this type event -that is - never run up new engine to full bore --unles you are thoroughly familiar with how the engine should sound .
The oil used won't save any engine -
air cooled really means fuel cooled .
From the mfgr's view -- the appearance of scuffed skirts - stuck rings etc., means only one thing - too much heat and that is the criteria for most mfgr's to accept/refuse warranty.
If proper run in instructions are furnished - as most mfgr's at least attmpt to provide ,
then it looks to me like any warranty is strictly a good public relations offer.
If I was in the engine sales business --I would do the following - based on the state of today' CD technology.
I would provide a CD with a introduction to the starting and running of the new engine .
Replete with sounds to listen for , carb adjustments and sound changes and appearance of proper plumbing etc.
A CD copy costs 25 cents
a good movie can be shot in one day.
I really don't se why no one does this .
It is common practice in other fields.
The savings on warranty work alone would cover a day's shooting.

Thank guys for all your responses. I think DKJENS hit the nail on the head, maybe my spelling was wrong. I don’t want to add to the war with DA and BME owners, just want to have fun at the field with a good reliable engine.
I am glad some of you are having good success with your 110’s I wish I was one.
I totally agree with DESERTPIG that you put more load on the engine on a ground run but there is nothing worse than a dead stick landing on first flight when you are trying to trim out. Other wise you may end up like CRASH90. It’s better to sort out problems on the ground than in the air.
The sipping cost from OZ are $260.00 return.
The factory settings are 1 and qtr low and 1 and half high and I was winding the needle OUT from that point NOT IN.
The throttle was brought up slowly though the rev range to the high end and back down we had a taco on and it was pulling 6,600 rpm. Then back down by the 2dr or 3dr time we noted that the rev had dropped by 600 rpm. I was trying to get the engine to blubbery rich but it wasn’t happing. I hope that gives you guys some more info.
If you guys with 110x adjust your high needle out to 3 and 1 qtr turns would your engines run at all (very rich) regardless of the environment? I am happy to take responsibility if I have done wrong but I believe I haven’t in this case. I sill think that if the engine was tested at the factory they would have picked up problem 1-2 and 3. Slack quality control. I am no 2 stroke engine mechanic but I think the carbie is sucking air from some where or a blocked jet etc. I probably will never know now.

Sounds to me you were trying to find the correct carb settings in a proper way. That's the way I do it. You have to open the throttle sooner or later to see if you are rich enough. You didn't do extended full throttle runs, came back to idle, went back up. How else can you set a carb????? BME should stand behind the engine if you ask me........

I'm going to have to side with the engine owner on this one. The engine was shipped with problems, the manufacturer was made aware of the problems and elected to attempt to work out the problems in the field, then the engine began to experience failure. Using the "field repair" method, the manufacturer accepts the risk of damage by the user if the manufacturer agrees to the method of repair.

The manufacturer should have requested the return of the engine from the beginning, and should now offer to repair or replace it with a split shipping costs to keep it somewhat fair to both.

Hey, if you're going to skimp on QC (not run the engine at factory), don't do it to engines that are sold to people across the world. Dick brings up a good point also, one that perhaps DA should consider and include with their DA50-R engines, since the majority of phone time is spent with first-gas-engine-bone-head DA50-R owners, who doesn't bother to read the instructions or seek assistance from experienced engine owners.

john leigh/Leigh R/C, I wish you best of luck with your engine. Somebody may argue that you took a chance with your purchase, but when buying an engine that to begin with is priced $50.00 above it's nearest competitor(DA), that by the way has the service history all others are rated by he he, you do expect a QC that guarantees a running engine. I hope Keith is made aware of this thread and stands up to his warranty, or he will just end up with a reputation often pinned on 3W, that the owner is always in the wrong.

DKjens

How does anyone truly know if the engine was not run at BME's facility? Simply because problems were realized from what would appear to be an inexperienced end user dosn't make it so, and were all stretching it to the factory is at fault and assuming the engine wasn't run and left the country with multiple problems.

Nothing personal John either; but there are many things that may have been user induced, overlooked and or not realized. Not to suggest that the engine may not have left the building as you describe, BUT there are simply too many unrelated problems being aired here IMO...

What did the engine look like after you removed it from the box, did all appear well?

Was the engine removed from the box and installed on the test stand without any tinkering???

Are you sure the fuel-oil mixture was spot on?

Did you remove or work on the carb prior to determining the diaphragm was defective? As in install a diaphragm equalizer tube or port, tighten the retaining bolts anything?

What was your initial starting procedure?

Did the engine backfire?

"After stripping another wooden prop that’s a other story. " What does this mean, specifically?

Did you use an electric starter, ever?

How did you determine the timing was off? How did you effect the re-time? Is there an adjustable timing ring on the 110? It looks like the magnet is embedded in the hub? Hubs are generally keyed to the crankshaft.

If you backed the needles out 3 turns or better and the engine still ran lean, I'd suggest you had/have an air leak. Or maybe a severe fuel restriction or BAD fuel. Were you turning the right needle, in the right direction?

New carb’s don't have bad diaphragms as a rule. I’d be willing to bet the fuel metering needle and or plunger was not seating, thus the fuel dripping. If the diaphragm was actually bad it would not pump fuel, this is atypical of an old hard or dry diaphragm, not a new carb. I don’t recall a bad diaphragm being able to cause fuel dripping out of the carb.

Was there any confusion on which needle was the high and low needle?

6600rpm with a 3W 26x10 is working a new engine way to hard IMO...

There are lots of questions, lots of plausible scenarios and lots of answers to same. Keith knows engines, in his defense I find it very hard to believe an engine left his shop untested, out of time, with a bad carb and huge air leak and if nothing else so mechanically tight it smoked in a few three minute runs...

FWIW: I would never run an engine for ANY extended period of time at full throttle, especially a NEW engine. Simple ground testing does not require anything more than few bursts to full rpm to determine if the engine is properly tuned. Sustained rpm in a loaded lean static condition is what causes cylinders to scuff, rings to stick and cylinders to be damaged nothing more IMO...

BME has one of the best GAS Engines Owners manual I have ever noted to date, I believe it’s included with every engine; it’s also available on their website.