Maybe I don't remember well and I know there are variances in the props from the same manufactures, but I believe my first run of my 110 on a 3w 26x10 hit 7000+ on the first run and I had richened the high about 1/4 even before trying to start it. Again this was with a warmed engine and only a 5 second burst. I could be all wet but you know how your memory goes with age.[]

edited my original rpm #', found the paper I wrote my original run on.

correction, I made a big mistake...it is adjustable on the BME but dang that ring is tight on mine. I had tried to adjust it a little one time to see if it was "optimium" But I never could get it to move. So I assumed it was keyed. Sorry

It looks like I need to clear a few thinks up. I Might be inexperienced to some of your standard, but I am no idiot. I didn’t realise there was set criteria standard to own one. I know which is the high and low needles and which way they turn. Etc
I have other petrol engines with a lot of flying time on them and no such problems with them yes it’s my first twin. Yes I have read the manual several times and followed it to the T and kept on referring back to it though all the problems, just in case I missed something. Regarding the timing if your engines haven’t got a timing ring just behind the hub then you got ripped off. It’s the one with all the little holes around it there is a small grub screw which locks it. When I got the aircraft finished engine mounted almost ready to fly reset the carbie to factory settings we then tried to start. Several flicks and I mean several in trying to get it started, it back fired on several occasions, we checked spark, fule battery etc all the obvious thing we thought it might have been the timing but ruled it out at that time. After talking to a 3W distributor here in Adelaide he said the timing is out, he also said that 3W are set around 30 degrees BTDC but I wanted to make sure about bme engines. Just been courses the inexperienced idiot I am. When I got engine CH ignition had supplied a timing kit and instructions, I think it’s for the older type engines with the advance and retard I set that up and found TDC zeroed the meter out located the magnet behind the timing ring. It was 110 degrees BTDC.That’s when I emailed Keith to find out what it’s spoused to be set at. He told me that it’s at 27 to 28 degrees BTDC. I had to tap the timing ring around with a copper punch to move it and to get it right. Remember the engine hasn’t been run by me at this stage. With that been so far out I find it very hard to believe it had been run at all.
Yes guys I taken a big risk and a lot of expense on getting the BME 110x here in OZ. I’m the Ginnie pig, no one at the field to see how they are going with there’s. I think it is the only one here but there is a motive, I was hoping to promote on behalf of bme engines here, there is a good market for them, we have all the other brands.
I would like to thank all those guys that are supporting me and the ones that aren’t put your self in my shoes. It would be good if Keith got a look at this forum to. I hope something good will come out of all of this at the end of the day.
Regards john leigh.

Okay. .no bashing going on here. . just some clarifications from experience.

My first gas engine was a BME 5.8. . I've owned 10 BME engines, in 6 years. . 7 twins and 3 singles. . as well as a DA150 and about 8 3W's (DAMN. . THAT'S why I don't have any money. . . ).. . I've worked on more than a few BME twins at Meets across this country, including the Nats, JR Challenge, and Joe Nall. EVERY problem I've seen with a BME was USER INDUCED, including some pretty silly problems that experienced flyers shot themselves in the foot with. There is nothing magic about making a BME run properly. . . .

I've burned up TWO engines in my RC career. One I accidentally mixed the 50:1 oil at 128:1 (don't ask . .extreme brain fade that day) Even so, it ran fine and flew for 8-10 minutes before it started to seize. That's a LONG time. It was a BME 5.8. The other was a 3W 150TS, that had a lot of flights on it, but got VERY hot one day for now apparent reason. It, too, took 7-8 minutes in the air to start showing problems.

3 minutes run time to a failure points to one thing to me. . Oil-gas ratio problem. If the engine was being run at idle and occasionally accelerated in an attempt to set mixture, it would have been extremely difficult to overheat. This would also account for the anemic power output. 6600-6700 is what all my 110's have turned, right out of the box, with a Mejzlik 28-10, HOT, after 4-5 minutes of run time.

Secondly, the timing on a BME engine is adjustable. The timing ring has a set screw. You loosen the screw and rotate the ring. It is VERY hard to move the ring because the tolerances are very tight. I've never had to reset the timing on one from the factory, though I did change the timing on two motors so that they would run backwards in a pusher configuration. Simple to do, easy to align and get right, IMO. I can't imagine BME putting an engine out the door with the timing THAT far off. . . .

Stripping props. . . if you get the timing ring more than .005 inches away from the Hall Effect pickup, you can run into sporadic timing from the CH ignition, because the signal is not very accurate. I did this once by accident. . the engine was properly timed but it kept popping back and MAN did my fingers hurt from that!!! About the 4th time it popped back I stepped back and took a look at things, then figured out what I had done wrong and moved the ring closer to the pickup. . .Problem solved. Adjusting the timing on this engine can lead to running nightmares because if you ever get the magnet too far away from the pickup you will start getting backfires, popping back and a murderously BAD idle. Imagine being at full advance at idle. . YIKES!!! I would not expect any wooden prop to go through that unscathed. It also KILLS the power and can make the engine run very hot no matter how the mxture is set. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. . . . . .. .let's think about that one for a minute or two. . . . ..

The timing on a 3W or DA engine is set in the 10-14 degrees BTDC range. .NOT 30 degrees. 3W and DA engines ADVANCE the timing from a set point, by about 14 degrees total additional advance at 4500 rpm. CH Ignitions Retard the timing using a Sunchro-spark timing module then back off the retard curve as the engine speed increases. Below 1500-1800 rpm they have a set amount of time they are retarded, which enables you to start the engine easily.

Carb problems. . An engine is run, then set on a shelf or spends 6 weeks in a box. Think perhaps a little oil might gun up the works a little bit? It's happened to me a few times, but once I unstuck the needle things worked fine. What happens if the novice user tries to free things up by pressing the pressure diaphragm with a screwdrive or piece of rod?? None of us was there to babysit this engine, so none of us knows what went on. But, from my own perspective, and with the number of engines I've owned. I've torn down dozens of carburetors and NEVER replaced one part besides the carb-reed block gaskets (carb mounting blocks is another story altogether). I've NEVER seen, personally, a damaged regulator diaphragm, though I've heard of it happening. It's an extremely rare occurence. And from a brand new carburetor? Unheard of. Were the needles taken out of the carburetor and reinstalled in the wrong holes? It CAN happen. Or perhaps seated hard enough to damage something inside, so that nothing worked quite like it should?? Perhaps the regulator needle lever got slightly bent, so that it would never come off the seat properly?? This would surely kill your high end mixture, no matter how far you turned the needles. The list of possibilities is almost endless. . . .

There are a ton of things that could have happened, inadvertantly, that neither the owner, BME, nor we, can find out about until the engine is returned to BME for PROPER disassembly and checkout. This is one time where the Buyer needs to bite the bullet and ship the engine back for inspection and repair. Given the multitude of things that "went wrong", that seems to be the only feasible alternative.

As for warranty issues. . personally, if I was as meticulous as Keith Baker is in building an engine, and then this sort of thing happened, I'd be VERY hard pressed to warranty the engine. Keith does, though, time and again, and the horror stories (like the guy with a BME 50 who could NEVER get it to run properly so after3-4 trips back and forth Keith refunded his money. . and the engine runs perfectly fine to this day. . . . ) would make you wonder why ANYONE builds engines for this hobby.

In the end, sending the motor back for a look-see is the only prudent option. . . .

Tri-Stan,
Very nice job. Well written. Objective. Great stuff. I find this information particularly useful, especially since I have just acquired my first BME (a 102).

Man am I glad I took small gas engine repair shop back in high school (some 25 years ago).... I take that for granted some times.
IMHO, When it comes to giant scale two cycle engines, I do think one needs to have a good handle on the !QUOT!theory of operations!QUOT! of the two cycles.

As for Leigh's situation... that's a tough call.
I'm not sure I (or any of us) have all the facts. I think it seems reasonable for Leigh and Keith to get together and arrive at whatever business decision makes sense for them.

I stand corrected.... Kris is right though it it is very hard to move! I had assumed it was keyed because I could not get it to move. My apologies Leigh.

Some good news, Keith and I have come to a compromise on repair cost and shipping, with some extra thing thrown in. He said that the carby diaphragm gasket was crushed out which may have coursed the lean run. He said the timing problem was his fault and just for the non-believers he said that I set the timing spot on. Now the engine is all repaired, very speedy recovery also it four strokes at 3 turns on the high needle. Thanks for all your comments and support.
Regards john Leigh

Better research how far away a sensor can be from a magnet.. Any magnet used by C&H will work out to about .060...At .005 the sensor mount could expand from heat and rub the hub..
Your turn, TKG

Tell you what, you come over here and flip this engine for me. . I'll set the gap. . do it without a glove and tell me I'm wrong.

Just so you will know. . the magnet is usualy recessed in the holes of the BME timing ring, as is the Hall effect pickup in the casing, otherwise the pickup would get destroyed by the timing ring.. . .005 inches is the gap between the timing ring and the casing.

Game. . Set. . Match.

John- Glad to hear everything is working out better. Like I had mentioned before Kieth has always be fair with me. It is unbelievable that you have to pay that much for shipping to the US though, and I thought 25 bucks was bad, WOW.

Well now that we know that .005 is the distance from the ring to the case, maybe we can find out how far the sensor and magnet are spaced below flush in their respective holders.. Does he use a depth gauge ?
I guess I've been doing it wrong all these (18)years It seems the timing is affected by the distance between the magnet and sensor...Anyone know of a chart that relates distance to degrees so I can set mine correctly ?.. I have been using from almost touching to about .060..

cheeze -- the diameter of the magnet or square vs round cross section would make more difference .
The circuit you have fires off trailing edge as I recall-and I used similar one Al made me - it seemed quite unaffected by a few thou difference.

The ignitions I am most familiar with, using hall sensors, fire off the back edge of the magnet..Maybe 3W and others have found a different way...I know on mine and C&H the distance from the magnet to the sensor makes no difference unless the magnet gets too far away, then it just misses or doesn't work at all...Maybe a syncro spark module makes a difference, don't use enough to know..Most of mine are mechanical on large engines or fixed on smaller ones....I guarantee on mine it makes no difference as long as it fires at all....Some systems work off the diameter of the magnet, maybe 3w is one of those...

So you reached a compromise with Kieth... when it was all his fault... still sound like you got screwed.

I can't believe you guys want him to throw a $4000 plane in the air before knowing the motor is reliable. How does DA run their motors? I can tell you they don't fly them. I'm not saying you should run it WOT and try to overheat it on the ground, but I want to know if it's going to put my money and hard work into the dirt in the first flight.

Falcon (ZDZ) fires off the trailing edge, Vlach (MVVS)off the leading edge. It is a hall sensor property to use one or the other ramp for switching. There is a very small distance range between firing and non-firing that the ignition timing calculation gets upset. These ignitions calculate the firing for the next cycle, unlike retarding ignitions.
With above ignitions, you may well get backfiring etc when the magnet field is on the verge of too weak. This may be due to large sensor distance, or the magnet loosing magnetism by heat. Also when the battery voltage is near the lower limit which causes the cirquits to malfunction.
Don't know about 3W though.

OK guys, I think Ralph and Kris have told me something that I didn't realize.
I purchased my 4 wire sensor from C&H and installed it on the aluminum bracket to work in my BME 102.
The bracket has a hole that the mounting bolt goes through and has some play in it.

Are you guys telling me that by moving the sensor left right in and out the play in the bolt hole, I can change the timing of the engine? The play may be around 0.010 of an inch or more. DO I have this right, if so, could the sensor be installed so that the advance is more than recommended and the engine requires premium gas to prevent pinging at idle?

In and out, no way, back and forth not likely either..Best answered by TKG, the extra wire is a redundant ground in case the other one fails..I wouldn't think .010 either would make a measureable difference, it wouldn't on my igniton...
I talked to Bobby Wilson at Cactus about the new 3W ignitions..They are designed to work with a NiMh battery and can be used without a regulator, up to a little over 8 volts..4.8 volts is too low and might cause the problems with firing at the wrong time...There are two small magnets in the hub, the red one is ignition and the green one is the other functions..They can work in line on the same hub without interference because the North pole triggers one sensor and the South pole triggers the other...

Well I'll eat some crow. I guess it pays to get the full story and hear both sides. I jumped to conclusion and sided originally with Keith, I now slant more towards John. Clearly there were issues with the engine.. But the second John took it into his own hands to fix the problem he chose to share the responsibility. If both parties had to share the cost, well then I think its appropriate.

The real problem arose with the distance. Had it been one of us in the states, we would have called for an RMA and sent it back the second we saw the timing off or gas pouring out of the carb. Keith would have fixed it in a day or so and we'd have it back in a week or so. If I was 3000 miles away in OZ however, I probably would have done the same thing as John did and try to fix it rather than wait 2 months for it to get back and forth.

Oh well - at least its running now..

DP

This may be a bit off topic but...
Shipping to "oz" does not take that long, but a month goes by quickly, all-in-all. Phone works instantly, so does mail and fax.
About the $250.00 to and fro: I find this rather much. 1/5th would do IMHO.
If you shy away from fedex and other high cost shipping services, it does not matter much where you live, and solutions are close at hand always. OTOH, Fedex i.e. ships in two or three days! You gets what you pays for.
In these normal postage instances costs probably are shared, unless extra security above registered shipping is asked for. Paranoya pays institutes, and your peace of mind. I would rather give the service to a person who deserves it than pay all the prohibitive cost for being extra secure to an institute that thrives on speed hunger and distrust. Internet bizz is based on worldwide systems and mutual trust, yet it is the only way if you want to escape local limitations.
Ughh.

I sent a Honda GX25 to New Zealand, I think the cost was about $32.....[8D]

All in all this whole thing is frustrating to hear. It sucks to be stuck with a purdy $1200 chunk of metal that doesn't work. I feel for ya' man.

The problem never would have arisen had the engine been test run.
Obviously it was not.
Given the fact that the engine was going to be shipped to the other side of the planet,one would think that THIS engine would've been run & adjusted.
I woudn't have paid a nickle for the shipping.The engine was defective from the factory.
The manufacturer pays all costs.
Hopefully somebody learned a lesson here.