Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

Well stated Bill.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

The weight loss comes from removing the stock heavy mag rotor and source coil, and cutting off the rear crank extension...There are no problems associated with the STOCK carb insulator block shipped with the engine by Zenoah, the problems are with the phenolic block that someone (?) made to rotate the carb...
I receive incom from ALL makes of engines, from repair or ignition conversions...I defend Zenoah because of the perception that they are overweight and underpowered...Fancy advertising by newer engines notwithstanding, a Zenoah is as good as anything out there and better than some...We race giant scale airplanes...Zenoah engines have been used for 13 years in these planes and have proven to be the BEST for that application...All other makes have been tried with little or no success....
If Zenoah engines have a problem, I would be among the first to acknowledge it...
The WJ64 carb on the GT80 is an example..The engine works better with an SDC 80, and I have said so many times..Same with the G26, the carb is bigger than it needs to be and is a little tricky to set right..
I see all makes of engines on a daily basis, so the problems are easy to spot..
The warranty thing is something Horizon did since they took over from Jim Goad at ISC..
There is nothing about a CD conversion that could possibly have any effect on an engine, except that Horizon might lose the sale of a spring starter

HighRoller

Bill;
I would like to retract the statement I made "you must defend them at all cost' I agree it was past the line of communicating an issue through discussion. The thread origionated with a question between a G-62 and DA flying a 30 lb plane, with a particular prop. There was no mention of conversion, or weight issues. To me that would be a question of engine to engine out of the box. When the weight discussion arose, and the conversion to lighten to compete with the DA in weight, I merely stated what I was told before, and retold today by Horizon Hobby, that the conversion would void the warranty. Cutting the crank alone was a specific reason stated by Horizon for void. I will admit that I don't know why Horizon has different policies than the previous owner, however for us that have recently bought Zenoahs, that dosen't matter. We are bound by what the current distributers and service policies are. I own 2 Zenoahs both great engines, that may well never have a problem, but I am more comfortable knowing that I have a warranty in case they do. There are lots of great products with great tracking records, but that alone is no guarrantee that they will never experience a problem. I have tried to go out of my way to make sure that Ralph Cunningham does not think I am trying to speak anything against him, or his service, and I appriciate you bringing my attention to the part of my statement that I will agree was unfair. Once again I am merely stating what the Manufacturor says their policies are. I have no control over them nor do you, so they are what they are. Again I apoligize to you, Ralph, or anyone else offended by my post, that was not my intention. I will try to state that which I know to be fact, and may occasionally not form the words in a diplomatic matter, but I mean no disrespect. Thanks again for your post.

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE GENTELMAN. You are an honorable man, Ralph is an honorable man, and somewhere out there is the perfect engine. All we have to do is keep searching. To me, that's the real fun of this hobby, always trying to find the perfect engine, radio, or plane. For my part, I hope I never do.

TOPGUN130643

My Feedback: (38)

Well, as usual all lines of communication have broken down. Going back through the threads I have found four people who does or has owned the G62 and the DA 50 and flew them both on the same plane with all four saying that the DA 50 out preformed the G62. Now getting back off of message I would like to say that I have delt with Horizon Hobbies for many years and never have I had a complaint against them. Our club holds an annual fly in to benefit cancer research every year and every year Horizon Hobbies has been more generous in supporting this event than any other manufacturer that we deal with. Maybe they believe in the Zenoah engine more than others. I know if I buy an engine new, I buy it to run out of the box. I don't feel like I should have to send an engine in to anyone to have modifications done to it. If it won't preform out of the box I will buy one that will. I honestly don't believe Horizon Hobbies is worried about the sale of a spring starter.

bpryor

My Feedback: (45)

Very well said DNB/AIR. Everyone up here writes something they didn't really intend to, and some of us more than once, like me. []

Since Bob got his question answered, and we're definitely off track, let me state my views on Zenoah. DNB/AIR, it may surprise you, but I'm in agreement with you. The main reason a Zenoah is heavy is because of the way it comes equipped. Ralph modifies the engines to be more competitive with other offerings in weight and power, and does this for a total cost less than the other motors out there that come with those things already done, but like you, and John, and many others too, I don't want to buy a motor then send it off to be modified to make it competitive in power or weight....even if it costs me $100 more. Although the warranty issue is not a big one for me, I understand that it is important to you, and many other people too. I also like the latest and the greatest, state-of-the-art engines, and that's another reason you won't find me buying a Zenoah...but that in no way means they aren't great engines for certain people, and certain applications. They just aren't for me.


John, I think Ralph was just being facetious with that comment.

TOPGUN130643

My Feedback: (38)

Well stated Bill. Don't take me serious..

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

Your point is well taken, and I agree with you 100%. When I buy an engine I too expect it to run out of the so called box. That is why I don't fly DA 50's anymore, and I suppose that's also why Desert Aircraft, has such good customert service. The've had lot's of experience dealing with dis-satisfied customers, myself included. When the "DA 50" was released I had to have one, and Like many others in this hobby, it seems like I'm a sucker for every new product that hit's the market, and that's where my association with "Desert Aircraft" began. I purchased a new DA 50, and never could get the throttle response right. The mid-range sucked and the idle was non-existent . After sending it back to Desert Aircraft, for service twice and flying it with no improvement to the "carb" problem, one day I was flying about half throttle, and when I went to transition, "BANG" The crankshaft broke. That's when I found out how good thier customer service was, They sent me a new engine as a replacement and I immediately sold it without ever using it. However, in all fairness I must say that for the last year I have seen many that ran great........but NONE that had a good mid-range. But their customer is still the greatest. Look at all the threads about problems guy's are having with the DA 50. If it's such a good engine, why are they having so many problems with them? Finally, I just purchased a new DA 100, for a 36% "KATANA". I fully expect it to be a super engine, because I've seen hundred's of them run, and all were excellent.

bpryor

My Feedback: (45)

Since this thread has run its course, please keep in mind that we're just chatting here among friends(everyone welcome), let's not start a brand war, though I for one am certainly interested in everyone's experience or opinions......with that disclaimer out of the way, I'm with you Bob. I was enthralled by the specs of the DA-50, and I'd owned a couple of DA-150's, so I was expecting close to perfection. Luckily the timing wasn't right for me to try one out. I was too hooked into Taurus'(thank goodness) when they came out and didn't try one. I've said a couple of times that if the DA-50 had been DA's first engine, that even with their great response to the problems, it probably would have spelled the end of the company. The only reason(at least the only one I can figure out) that they have such die-hard loyal customers is due to their great reputation with the 100 and 150, which they deserve. They probably have the majority of the problems worked out now, but who knows. I know I wouldn't take a chance on one right now; I'd wait at least another year...and then, if they don't bring an updated engine out, they're going to be way behind MVVS and ZDZ...at least for state-of-the-art design and power.

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

Not to worry, Soon we'll real twin on the block A SUPER "T-107" and I'm in line .

bpryor

My Feedback: (45)

I'm sure that will be a great engine. What are you planning on putting it in?

excaliber

Well guys it appears no one considered the Taurus as usual.
TS 62 at 4lbs 10 oz or TS 69 at 4lbs 12 oz. either engine will pull 22X10 with authority.

bpryor

My Feedback: (45)

Excaliber. This was intentionally not a brand thread...though Bob and I are also "T" fans, and if you read the whole thread, we snuck a plug in, so fans of the "T" were not left out, even in a thread that wasn't supposed to have other brands in it. Right, like that's going to happen.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I don't care what anyone says about the DA50. There's no substitute for cubic inches. It's been said before in this thread, and I'm saying it again.

There ain't 1 single DA50 in the whole world that will outrun a G-62 in a prop-swingin' contest. That just ain't gonna happen.

Yes, the DA is lighter. We all know that. But anyone who thinks a DA50 will outrun a G-62 is just flat out full of sh*t.

So many people here are always slamming the Zenoah engines. They think that the BME, DA, whatever new and overpriced engine is better than a Zenoah. I'll bet 95% of them never even owned a Zenoah.

I'll put any one of my G-62 engines--stock ignition or electronic (your choice)--up against ANY 50cc engine ANYWHERE. You'll loose. And not by 50RPM either. A G-62 will whoop the pants off ANY 50cc engine.

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

Hi Bill, I purchased a Katana 36% from Aeroworks when they dropped the price down $500+ dollars. I'm telling you this in self defense because Iknow that someone is going to tell me that I've made a bad mistake by buying this particular "Plane", and I not going to like it. But like I said, "
I like to try different engines, and aircraft", and if I don't like it.......It won't be the first time (or the the last) that I've bought something and found out later that it wasn't what I expected it to be, but at least I'll know from my own experience how the product was. I have alway liked the look's of the "KATANA" and I'm looking foward to trying it out.

Remember... It's what's up front that counts. 73,

AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

Please allow me to jump in here a bit late and stir the pot a bit. I was never a big G62 fan. I always loved the G23 and G38--Although I never could see the purpose of the G45 (same weight as the G62 only less power).

Then one day I bought a big bipe that had a low time G62 on it and I really did not want to invest in another engine. My beef with the G62 was the bad-- AND I MEAN BAD-- vibration at idle. The other thing that I did not like was the "dead spot" at mid range where the ignition advances. So I thought I would send the engine to Ralph to see what could be done. SIMPLE EXPLAINATION----- IT WAS NOT THE SAME ENGINE!!!!!! The vibration was gone and it had the best transition from low to high speed of any! A fellow club member was so impressed that he sent his in. I have since bought an ther plane with one of Ralph's ignitions. SUMMARY: A G62 with his ignition is one of my favorite engines--- with the stock mag, the, I really don't care for them.

Back to the thread and how does it compare to my DA 50? I think we are comparing a Detroit 426 hemi to a Nissian Z car. Both are very powerful in their own way. From my experience (notice the disclaimer) Zenoah likes smaller props and higher RPMs. The DA out of the box with the same size 22/10 prop pulled the same RPMs that the G62. I never had the problems with my DA that others have, but then I sold it on a plane kind of quick.

Also-- I too have owned a few Taurus engines and remain a big fan.

Summary--I have good things to say about both engines and like so many things in this hobby, it is about what you like for your application. Fly and be happy.[8D]

bpryor

My Feedback: (45)

Hi Rcpilet,

There are die-hard fans of all types of brands of engines, and there always will be. Your feelings about the Zenoah are as valid as other people about other engines....but with that said, your statement about CC's is a pretty limited view. I just bought a MVVS 45(actually 43cc), and though I have yet to run mine(soon), more than one have confirmed the manufacturer's numbers of turning a 24X10 prop at 6100 RPM. Try that on your Zenoah and tell me that CC's rule. There's a thing called technology that you can't hide from. Engine designs are advancing, which means better performance per CC...with no downside. An extreme example would be saying the 5 liter V8 in your Chevy will out perform the the 3 liter engine in a Formula 1 car. That's an absurd example, but maybe you get the point. All engine designs are not created equal.

That's a great value. I would have been tempted to try it too. I also like the looks of the Katana.

Your pot stirring is always welcome Andrew.

Very well said Andrew, I'm with you. I really like it that people are passionate about their different choices, it makes the hobby much more interesting.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I agree. The DA is a technological wonder when compared to the old design of the G-62. The DA is a very powerfull engine and should not be overlooked for lightweight sport or IMAC applications. I run a G-62 in an 80" World models Patty and it only weighs 15.5 pounds. Thats better than the GP Patty with a DA50. It flies light and performs great.

I still stand by my challenge to any 50cc engine owner. I'll put a G-62 against ANY of them and I'll bet you that I win. I've seen DA50 engines at the field. I've watched guys run them from the first tank to the 100th tank. They come around slowly and get better with age. Same as a G-62. It takes time and patience to get one broke in. I got my own method of breaking them in--and it seams to work. I actually get more RPM than some of the other G-62 engines I've seen with the same props as mine. I actually ran mine for a couple gallons with a 20-10 at over 8000RPM--needles a little on the fat side. Breaking it in at higher RPM seams to do something to an engine inside that makes them always want to run high RPM. So, now, I can get 7200RPM with a 22-10. Other guys are only getting 7000RPM.

But where I fly, the DA50 guys are running 22-8 props at about 6700-6900RPM and I'm turning a 22-10 at 7100-7300RPM. Not even CLOSE to the same HP or torque or whatever you want to call it. A 22-10 at 7200RPM is a LOT more thrust than a 22-8 at 6800RPM.

I'm moving down to lower elevation and I'll be flying about 1800' LOWER. I used to fly at 5973' and now I'll be flying at about 4100' I can't wait to see what one of my G-62 engines will do at 4100'. Gonna have to fatten the needles a bit. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say 100-200RPM increase. We'll see in a week or two.

I'm not slamming the DA engines. I will probably buy one some day. They run good and they look good. But, (disclaimer) in my experience--they can't touch a G-62 when it comes to swingin' props.

AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

What you will see is an increase in performance, but at a lower RPM. The air get thicker the closer you get to sea level, which in turn produces more resistance to the engine, but the prop bites the air better.

End Result--- better performance.

bpryor

My Feedback: (45)

Sounds like a great G-62 you have. Andrew's right about what will happen when you drop your altitude. I would wager that the RPM will be very close to what you have now, or a little less. Let us know, it would be very interesting to know the reality.

I wish I could bring my little MVVS 45(after it is broken in) up and run next to your G-62, but it would have to be with a bigger prop than a 22X10. That's too small to keep this engine in it's peak range, which is in the low 6's. We'll probably never know the reality, but it's fun to speculate about.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

Phoenix AZ altitude about 1000
Williams AZ altitude 6800
About 400 rpms more in Phoenix with the same setup

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

We're gonna find out[8D]

I can't wait to fly at lower altitude. It's gonna be like flyin' in the MUD[:-] Everything about the planes should be crisper and my landings will not be so hot.

Trying to fly at the club in Silverthorne at about 8000' is like trying to land at mach 2. It takes a lot of runway to get it shut down after you get the wheels down. Your coming in so fast--there's always a long roll-out.

I'm not gonna change a thins about my setup on the engine. I'll keep the same prop and fuel/oil mix. Only thing I will do is tweak the high speed needle for best running. If I can remember, I'll come back here and post RPMs at the lower altitude.

bpryor

My Feedback: (45)

Thanks for the info Ralph. That's very interesting. Rcpilet, I'll be looking forward to your results. I'm a Private pilot(semi-retired ), and I've done my share of high-altitude landings and takeoffs. It's got to be a real challenge for an R/C plane. The ground speed that you touch down at must be really impressive. No fun, but good for a skill builder. I bet you're going to way over cook your landings for awhile when you get to the lower altitude, then you're going to love it.

TOPGUN130643

My Feedback: (38)

Fellows this will be my last post and I wanted to say that I really enjoyed it. I would like to say that Bob is my brother and taught me how to fly over 35 years ago along with a lot of other things about the hobby. So it is not often that we disagree but this just happens to be one of the times. Bill if you are not in public relations, you should be. I know I said I would only buy an engine ready to run out of the box but if I did buy a G62 I would send it to Ralph ASAP because I know what he can do with these engines. Now consider this. I have a friend who has a friend who knew a guy that seen a guy fly a taurus 52 and he said it would blow away the DA or the G 62, so it must be true. Till next contact... Happy Landings..

P.S. Warranty has never been an issue for me because I usually void my warranty when I put the engine through the tail of the airplane..

RTK

My Feedback: (1)

ME TOO