Ok... I've read a bunch of threads here in the engine forum and asks a few friends what they think, but thought I'd post a thread to get opinions of the gurus out there... Not wanting to start a pissing contest, but here's my quandry...

I'm assembling a new 35% airplane that will likely come in around 28-29 lbs... I want stupid power to get my butt out of a jam if I get too low and out of shape... My only limitations on engine selection is that it must be less than 13" spark plug cap to spark plug cap, weigh less than 7 lbs bare and not require dilithium crystals or U235 for fuel...

Pretty sure a DA100 is out of the picture... Too anemic...

Kroma 100 looks nice at 5.07 lbs with 10 hp... Not sure that's enough umph...

3W 106 CS looks nice and gets high marks at 6.0lbs and 11 hp... ** Front runner **

ZDZ 120 B2 RV is a ??? at 6.5 lbs and 10.5 hp... I've heard mixed reviews on this engine...

ZDZ 160 B2 Champion is interesting at 6.6 lbs bare... Haven't seen a HP rating though... ** Probably INSANE power **

EVO / MVVS 116 looks nice, but needs to go on the South Beach Diet at 8.5 lbs...

BME 110 at 3.90 lbs and 10.5 hp seems too good to be true... May have weight & balance issues with an engine this light...

In cowl mufflers are preferred, but will go cans if I have to...

Whatcha think???

HP ratings are whatever the manufacturer wants them to be, not really good for comparing engines...The BME 110 will do the trick, ask RTK

I'm going thru the same process right now with a Carden 35% 540. I have a DA100 and a 3W106
sitting around looking for a home which makes my quandry seem a bit silly but I also am considering
"stupid power". If you look at your requirements, you'll find that the ZDZ 160 Champion matches
perfectly which is where I am at the moment. For comparison purposes, I'm sure the ZDZ would
be rated around the 15 HP mark and would certainly require judicious use of maximum power to
keep from blowing the wings off but oh what fun it would be. I noticed in the last High Flight there
was a guy at Joe Nall with a Carden 35% 540 and a ZDZ 160 Champion installed. I've been trying
to track him down for some info but not having any luck. I've gotta get off the fence pretty soon as
Spring is approaching and my butt's getting sore. Let us know what you decide.

ZDZ 120's width is a couple of 16th's under 13 inches- I just measured it for you. Haven't ran it yet so I can't give you any info on that. The 160 has the same dimensions. Dick H. has put 160's in this size plane before.

Andy Kane put a 160 Champion on a 2.6m Composite ARF Yak 55. Most impressive vertical I have ever witnessed. Truly, you need to watch your throttle control in a combination like this. He had to run a 3 bladed prop for ground clearance (a 28.5 -12 Mej might work very nicely)- consider that as you ponder a larger engine in a 35% plane- I can't imagine what the power to weight would have been with a 2 blade.

I have second hand info from a reliable source that someone put a 160 on a 2.6m Extra and experienced fatal flutter - going vertical!

The 160 is light for its class for sure but I would still keep an eye out on overall weight- you're not just going to fly with the nose pointed straight up- if it's only going to add an additional pound- you might not notice it. After all, a 160 with standard mufflers might not be much more total weight than some other 100cc class engines with cannister mufflers or tuned pipes.

If you do go with the 160 I look forward to hearing what you think...... I'm sure you'll have a grin or two that first time you pull back on the right stick and push foward on the left one.....!

Dave Michael

No substitute for cubic inches. That being said, if you want the most power go with the ZDZ 160 on the above mentioned engines. You want stupid stupid stupid power try going higher Well maybe not.

My personal choice (as Ralph has mentioned) the BME 110, if you can set it up without adding additional weight you should be at or about 26-27lbs and that is doable on a lot of airframes.

Believe me, lighter planes will fly better and will get you out of trouble easier. I am living proof, since my pilotage skills are not super. A heavy over powered plane is pretty much useless, unless you like flying straight. Start banging the stick and watch how it will bite you, snapping and breaking out of maneuvers every where.

Thanks for the input guys...

Here's a little more info to fuel the fire... The airframe is a Aviation Models 35% Yak 54... The AM website states that the AUW is 30 lbs, so that's what I'm basing my requirements on... Reports have the completed airplane balancing a little tail-heavy... Most are flying the airplane with a DA100 or 3W 106 and everyone says that's plenty of power... I'm not so sure with an AUW creeping up on 30 lbs... The airframe has 2225 sq in of wing area and everyone says it flies like a big foamy...

I'm sure the 160 would pull the wings off it without judicious throttle management... I don't know if I could refrain from jamming the throttle wide open in the heat of the moment...

With the reported CG coming in tail-heavy using a DA100 or 3W 106, the BME 110 would take moving everything to the firewall to get it to balance... Perhaps adding cans on the BME will add a little nose weight and produce more hp to boot...

OK, lets take a good look at this.

Wing area= 2225 sq/in, lets say that is correct.

Its coming out at about 30 lbs.

So that gives you 31.06 oz/sq inch, not bad for that much wing area. ( Oh sure some can build it lighter[sm=sunsmiley.gif])

Now if this is coming at ya tail heavy with a 6lbs motor, the BME 110 is out in my mind, sure you can add cans to add weight $$$$$$$$. Why....

So what you want is stupid power in a 6/7lbs motor, am I right!

So I would go with the most power you can get in a 6-7lbs motor!

The ZDZ 160 champion on in cowl mufflers

Now go look and see if its a good motor, is it user freindly, reliable and strong!

Thanks for all the replies guys...

Common sense prevailed and I didn't get a ZDZ 160... Got a 3W 106 CS which I think will pull this airplane around just fine...

Happy Trails...

Stupid Power


Lets see if I hit the nail on the head with this one.

Aviation Models 33% Yak

ZDZ 80 Super

It should come in right at 20 to 21 lbs.




I think I'll have stupid power.



Neo Out!!!!!

My best plane with "stupid power" was a 21lb H9 Edge and BME 110, it would go faster straight up than level lol. Torqued, you will like the 106 a ton, give it time to break in, ie 15 gallons or so, and you will see how it really runs.

The advantage of the new 80 engines -no one seems to really take notice of (wink wink nudge nudge)-is that for the price of the 110 --you can get a plane /muffled can AND the 80 -
at 21 lbs awful hard to fault the power at 22.25 lbs my 80 Edge is a runner even up here in the mountains
but if money is no object - go for the 106/110

Dick, have you run the new 80 on a full length pipe yet?

I did -but am not flying that setup -I used the AMT pipe - and a 26x10 Mejzlic- runs in low 7000's
The big ol JMB can on the short header is so easy to do -quiet etc., and on the EDGE was a good match- depending on the type of flying -Iswitch from a 26x10 Skoerpa to a 26x12 ZM-this puts the engine in the very high 6000and low 7000 in th air -so at best power .

A gas engine has 2 or 3 ball bearings, two roller bearings, and 1 or 2 rings on the piston...Other than the seals on the crank, nothing else touches inside the engine...How come it takes 15 gallons of fuel to seat the piston rings ? Are the crank seals that tight ? Just wondering...

rcign, I do not build engines for a living, so not going there. The 3w motors are very tight and take forever to completely break in, thats just my experience and every single other 3w owner I know or have talked to. The way the motor runs out of the box is very different IMO around 15-20 gallons, the more time on the 3ws, the better they run. Torqued up will be very happy with his choice.

The only thing I can think of that would be more than that would be the guy that put a DA150 in a Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak.

we did a ZDZ160 -in one of those - --- but the best one was the lightened 35%Wild Hare with the 160 - watching and hearing it unload going straight up is kooool.

Hello fellas!

I have a comp-arf 2.3 extra on route...desiding on the power plant is leading me into sleepness nights!..i hear the old zdz 80 single was an auesome combo..what about the new 80 super?..would that be to much power?...how about the 3W 75 side carb?

your Thoughts would be appreciated!!

cheers from Canada!!

mannyh

Always, have you considered the mvvs 58? I would think that would be the perfect match for the 2.3.

The regular ZDZ80 single on a simple good in cowl muffler and a 24x10 whatever prop
you can turn it up close to 8000 won't hurt it .
you may blow the plane to kingdom come - that's your problem but the weight build up will put you a little over 20 lbs
any of the 3W setups weigh more .
good engines - just weigh more ---
the real problem with these setups is the same as turning a kid loose on a Hayabusa (whatever)
you got to watch the power applications!

Razor!....Dick!

thanks for the reply..some thing about the mvvs's...don't do it for me?....i've read somewhere that the older ZDZ 80 single was a good match..this plane comes in at 20-22lbs so it's not the lightest plane for it's size but we all know what they fly like! I really want the new super but i don't want flutter from the pullin' ponys..LOL! but i do want good power! The 3w 75 is 4.7lbs and the new 80 4.0lbs older version is 4.6lbs i think thats what i just read?

Help...help! This is driving me crazy!!!!!!!!

mannyh

I know it takes some time, but 15 gallons seems like a lot...
One of the best G62s in our racing planes was about 5 years old....Crashed a few times, bent, straightened, and LOOSE....

15 gallons seems like a lot, but a lot of that time seems to be on synthetic to get there. Some of my buddies are now just running 10 gallons of lawn boy or equiv to break these 3ws in, instead of running 5 gallons then switch, who knows for sure, but it seems 15-20 gallons through the motor gets the motor running sweet (not like they dont run fine out of the box).

Always, I would do some research on the 58, its a bad mother, but have seen videos of the 2.3 on the old style zdz 80 and its bad ass too.