Voltwatch Question
07-25-2006 | 01:37 PM
#2
My Feedback: (14)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Arlington,
TX
RE: Voltwatch Question
It depends on whether you are making 4 or 5 flights per outing versus 1 or 2. I use volt watch type indicators on my aerobatic ignition but not on the scale planes because the flying time is less.
It is pretty much personal preference and what you feel comfortable in doing. The volt watch is a good secondary reminder to turn off the ignition after flying if you are not using a servo operated kill and are depending on a throttle type kill setup.
It is pretty much personal preference and what you feel comfortable in doing. The volt watch is a good secondary reminder to turn off the ignition after flying if you are not using a servo operated kill and are depending on a throttle type kill setup.
ORIGINAL: Bosch232
Is it advisable to also use one for the pack that powers the electronic ignition?
I have a new 1400 mah pack for the E.I.
Is it advisable to also use one for the pack that powers the electronic ignition?
I have a new 1400 mah pack for the E.I.
07-25-2006 | 07:37 PM
#3
My Feedback: (31)
RE: Voltwatch Question
ORIGINAL: Bosch232
Is it advisable to also use one for the pack that powers the electronic ignition?
I have a new 1400 mah pack for the E.I.
Is it advisable to also use one for the pack that powers the electronic ignition?
I have a new 1400 mah pack for the E.I.
Anywho even ESV dynamic battery loading only offers a kinda-sorta-maybe feel for what’s left in the battery. A poor mans fuel gauge so to speak. One can garner information of the specific battery pack and develop a relationship with regard to expected discharge time intervals, characteristics and the like. This allows you to form an educated “feel†for the batteries well being and expected flight times.
07-26-2006 | 12:33 PM
#4
My Feedback: (14)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Arlington,
TX
RE: Voltwatch Question
Mike, you are a little off on your assesment of voltage indicators. They do much more than indicate no load situations. They indicate everything from neutral position idle loads to dragging and binding loads on control surfaces.
Granted that they are far from an absolute necessity but they are also far from being just another interesting trinket.
Also all onboard indicators are not created equal either for accuracy or the usefull informatiion that they can furnish. A good one can give a fair idea of the non flying system load where a ESV gives only a response to the fixed load in in the ESV.
Granted that they are far from an absolute necessity but they are also far from being just another interesting trinket.
Also all onboard indicators are not created equal either for accuracy or the usefull informatiion that they can furnish. A good one can give a fair idea of the non flying system load where a ESV gives only a response to the fixed load in in the ESV.
ORIGINAL: mglavin
I don't think these devices are very useful, they simply indicate the NO-LOAD voltage. Pretty much worthless information IMO (albeit you can stir the sticks and observe the voltage reading). An expanded scale LOADED volt meter (.5 to 1.5 Amp load) on the other hand is a must again IMO. The ignition system cannot load the battery dynamically like a flight system accordingly the information is of little value with regard to the reserve of the battery under test.
Anywho even ESV dynamic battery loading only offers a kinda-sorta-maybe feel for what’s left in the battery. A poor mans fuel gauge so to speak. One can garner information of the specific battery pack and develop a relationship with regard to expected discharge time intervals, characteristics and the like. This allows you to form an educated “feel†for the batteries well being and expected flight times.
ORIGINAL: Bosch232
Is it advisable to also use one for the pack that powers the electronic ignition?
I have a new 1400 mah pack for the E.I.
Is it advisable to also use one for the pack that powers the electronic ignition?
I have a new 1400 mah pack for the E.I.
Anywho even ESV dynamic battery loading only offers a kinda-sorta-maybe feel for what’s left in the battery. A poor mans fuel gauge so to speak. One can garner information of the specific battery pack and develop a relationship with regard to expected discharge time intervals, characteristics and the like. This allows you to form an educated “feel†for the batteries well being and expected flight times.
07-26-2006 | 01:30 PM
#5
My Feedback: (31)
RE: Voltwatch Question
Gremlin,
The simple fact is these devices cannot or do not display the actual voltage under static loads and or whilst stirring the sticks, as I eluded to. Granted this information is better than nothing... The response time, sensitivity and graphical representation of these devices are lacking for our purposes IMO.
I feel the loaded voltage via an ESV is a much better indicator for our needs, simply because we can view numerically the actual system voltage verses a loosely calibrated graphical display range and sustain the load indefinitely if so desired, this provides an indication of the batteries current potential under load. Which again is not necessarily the best method, but is a field performable means to an end after and or prior to flight.
The simple fact is these devices cannot or do not display the actual voltage under static loads and or whilst stirring the sticks, as I eluded to. Granted this information is better than nothing... The response time, sensitivity and graphical representation of these devices are lacking for our purposes IMO.
I feel the loaded voltage via an ESV is a much better indicator for our needs, simply because we can view numerically the actual system voltage verses a loosely calibrated graphical display range and sustain the load indefinitely if so desired, this provides an indication of the batteries current potential under load. Which again is not necessarily the best method, but is a field performable means to an end after and or prior to flight.
07-26-2006 | 04:52 PM
#6
Senior Member
My Feedback: (16)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Locust Grove,
GA
RE: Voltwatch Question
First let me say that many people think they are worthless and depending on how you use them, I may agree.
I use them on both my plane and my ignition.
I check the reading when I land as I wiggle the sticks.
The ignition voltage is the loaded voltage when the engine is running. I feel safe with that.
The RX voltage to me is safe so long as only the green lights are lit after landing.
I never use them with NiMH because the discharge curve for NiMH is too flat in my OPINION>
I use them on both my plane and my ignition.
I check the reading when I land as I wiggle the sticks.
The ignition voltage is the loaded voltage when the engine is running. I feel safe with that.
The RX voltage to me is safe so long as only the green lights are lit after landing.
I never use them with NiMH because the discharge curve for NiMH is too flat in my OPINION>
07-26-2006 | 07:33 PM
#7
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Malaysia, MALAYSIA
RE: Voltwatch Question
I think Bosch is refering to connecting the voltwatch to the ignition supply pack. I think in this case, its a good setup to see if your ignition pack is still giving out the juice for the CDI.
And as for RX pack, as per Geistware, I find it very useful. Granted if I can see the volte numerically it is even better.
As for the expanded/loaded volt meter also do no good either. Most of the max loaded at 1amp. Some to 2amp. Then again in real flight situation, with all onboard digital hi torque servo, they draw easily above 2amp for 6-8 servos. So the loaded voltmeter are no better either, IMHO granted its a still a must for flight check.
And as for RX pack, as per Geistware, I find it very useful. Granted if I can see the volte numerically it is even better.
As for the expanded/loaded volt meter also do no good either. Most of the max loaded at 1amp. Some to 2amp. Then again in real flight situation, with all onboard digital hi torque servo, they draw easily above 2amp for 6-8 servos. So the loaded voltmeter are no better either, IMHO granted its a still a must for flight check.
07-27-2006 | 12:24 PM
#8
My Feedback: (14)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Arlington,
TX
RE: Voltwatch Question
Units such as the I-4C product give an exact system voltage reading accurate to .01 of a volt. They show the system and the draw of each surface as it is actuated. If you care to, you can add additional mechanical load to a surface with you fingers and see what that load looks like.
It gives a dynamic picture of the system versus a fixed reading found on an ESV. I use the Futaba voltage checker on some of my planes and onboard voltage indicators on others. Since neither is a potential point of failure during flight it comes down to whether the use of either is an added step of diligence or just a ritual that gives us a little more confidence before flight.
It gives a dynamic picture of the system versus a fixed reading found on an ESV. I use the Futaba voltage checker on some of my planes and onboard voltage indicators on others. Since neither is a potential point of failure during flight it comes down to whether the use of either is an added step of diligence or just a ritual that gives us a little more confidence before flight.
ORIGINAL: mglavin
Gremlin,
The simple fact is these devices cannot or do not display the actual voltage under static loads and or whilst stirring the sticks, as I eluded to. Granted this information is better than nothing... The response time, sensitivity and graphical representation of these devices are lacking for our purposes IMO.
I feel the loaded voltage via an ESV is a much better indicator for our needs, simply because we can view numerically the actual system voltage verses a loosely calibrated graphical display range and sustain the load indefinitely if so desired, this provides an indication of the batteries current potential under load. Which again is not necessarily the best method, but is a field performable means to an end after and or prior to flight.
Gremlin,
The simple fact is these devices cannot or do not display the actual voltage under static loads and or whilst stirring the sticks, as I eluded to. Granted this information is better than nothing... The response time, sensitivity and graphical representation of these devices are lacking for our purposes IMO.
I feel the loaded voltage via an ESV is a much better indicator for our needs, simply because we can view numerically the actual system voltage verses a loosely calibrated graphical display range and sustain the load indefinitely if so desired, this provides an indication of the batteries current potential under load. Which again is not necessarily the best method, but is a field performable means to an end after and or prior to flight.
07-27-2006 | 01:06 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lincoln,
NE
RE: Voltwatch Question
For the record, I was asking about the Voltwatch for the E.I. pack as Magna stated above.
I'm setting up my first E.I. engine, and I'm unfamiliar with the current draws involved, or the implications of a battery failure in this application.
But I do find the other debate interesting.
I'm setting up my first E.I. engine, and I'm unfamiliar with the current draws involved, or the implications of a battery failure in this application.
But I do find the other debate interesting.
07-27-2006 | 03:31 PM
#10
My Feedback: (14)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Arlington,
TX
RE: Voltwatch Question
On an EI system a low battery in flight will result in a few misfires and then a dead stick. On a twin cylinder many times one cylinder will drop first. On the ground you will get a few pops and possibly a short run before the flash voltage goes south. The I-4C would be the best product as it would give an actual voltage reading with the engine running. The bottom line however is start with a good pack and check it every few flights. The Onboard indicator is an option not an absolute necessity.
You can check the models under my profile and see that I am flying several sizes with EI,s and voltage indicators. What I have posted here is direct experience not conjecture or hearsay. For reference I started using a locally made onboard monitor in 1991 and have used various ones since just because I can.
You can check the models under my profile and see that I am flying several sizes with EI,s and voltage indicators. What I have posted here is direct experience not conjecture or hearsay. For reference I started using a locally made onboard monitor in 1991 and have used various ones since just because I can.
ORIGINAL: Bosch232
For the record, I was asking about the Voltwatch for the E.I. pack as Magna stated above.
I'm setting up my first E.I. engine, and I'm unfamiliar with the current draws involved, or the implications of a battery failure in this application.
But I do find the other debate interesting.
For the record, I was asking about the Voltwatch for the E.I. pack as Magna stated above.
I'm setting up my first E.I. engine, and I'm unfamiliar with the current draws involved, or the implications of a battery failure in this application.
But I do find the other debate interesting.
07-27-2006 | 06:59 PM
#11
Senior Member
My Feedback: (40)
RE: Voltwatch Question
You would get a far more accurate reading and save money by using a handheld voltage checker with a load switch.
I dont see why people buy into these gadgets and keep spending money for every new plane when they can buy a quality voltage checker once and be done with it.
Personally I would rather have the peace of mind by spending the 12 seconds to check my batteries before each flight under load.
just my 2 cents
I dont see why people buy into these gadgets and keep spending money for every new plane when they can buy a quality voltage checker once and be done with it.
Personally I would rather have the peace of mind by spending the 12 seconds to check my batteries before each flight under load.
just my 2 cents
07-27-2006 | 10:26 PM
#12
My Feedback: (31)
RE: Voltwatch Question
ORIGINAL: Gremlin Castle
Units such as the I-4C product give an exact system voltage reading accurate to .01 of a volt. They show the system and the draw of each surface as it is actuated. If you care to, you can add additional mechanical load to a surface with you fingers and see what that load looks like. It gives a dynamic picture of the system versus a fixed reading found on an ESV. I use the Futaba voltage checker on some of my planes and onboard voltage indicators on others. Since neither is a potential point of failure during flight it comes down to whether the use of either is an added step of diligence or just a ritual that gives us a little more confidence before flight.
Units such as the I-4C product give an exact system voltage reading accurate to .01 of a volt. They show the system and the draw of each surface as it is actuated. If you care to, you can add additional mechanical load to a surface with you fingers and see what that load looks like. It gives a dynamic picture of the system versus a fixed reading found on an ESV. I use the Futaba voltage checker on some of my planes and onboard voltage indicators on others. Since neither is a potential point of failure during flight it comes down to whether the use of either is an added step of diligence or just a ritual that gives us a little more confidence before flight.
ORIGINAL: mglavin
Gremlin,
The simple fact is these devices cannot or do not display the actual voltage under static loads and or whilst stirring the sticks, as I eluded to. Granted this information is better than nothing... The response time, sensitivity and graphical representation of these devices are lacking for our purposes IMO.
I feel the loaded voltage via an ESV is a much better indicator for our needs, simply because we can view numerically the actual system voltage verses a loosely calibrated graphical display range and sustain the load indefinitely if so desired, this provides an indication of the batteries current potential under load. Which again is not necessarily the best method, but is a field performable means to an end after and or prior to flight.
Gremlin,
The simple fact is these devices cannot or do not display the actual voltage under static loads and or whilst stirring the sticks, as I eluded to. Granted this information is better than nothing... The response time, sensitivity and graphical representation of these devices are lacking for our purposes IMO.
I feel the loaded voltage via an ESV is a much better indicator for our needs, simply because we can view numerically the actual system voltage verses a loosely calibrated graphical display range and sustain the load indefinitely if so desired, this provides an indication of the batteries current potential under load. Which again is not necessarily the best method, but is a field performable means to an end after and or prior to flight.
FWIW: The current loading ESV’s work exactly like the i4c’s digital volt meter if you please and they are capable of loading the battery too (not sure about Futaba's). Simply stir the sticks for a dynamic load reading or engage the load(s) for indefinite user selectable battery loading/testing. ESV’s devices do NOT provide a fixed system reading as noted above, they are capable of displaying actual system voltage in real time. In fact you can even engage a load and stir the sticks simultaneously for a loaded dynamic voltage reading… I have used and use the i4c meter in several GS models for many years, excellent products… Additionally I have tested and performed R&D with the Voltwatch and similar type products, while the work and many are happy with same as I mentioned previously I find them inadequate or lacking for our needs. But again they are better than nothing.
07-28-2006 | 01:48 PM
#13
My Feedback: (14)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Arlington,
TX
RE: Voltwatch Question
ESVs are usually plugged into the charging port on the switch harness. This port is cut off when the switch is turned on so there is no reading of the actual system. If the system is accessed by another method then yes the ESV will show the buss load on the system at that point in time.
The more inexpensive LED indicators only give gross indications but they also act as a secondary reminder that the switch is on. Sometimes this is worth more than the actual charge state.
The more inexpensive LED indicators only give gross indications but they also act as a secondary reminder that the switch is on. Sometimes this is worth more than the actual charge state.
07-29-2006 | 01:35 PM
#14
Thread Starter
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lincoln,
NE
RE: Voltwatch Question
The more inexpensive LED indicators only give gross indications but they also act as a secondary reminder that the switch is on. Sometimes this is worth more than the actual charge state.
That's 10 bucks well spent, to me.
I dont see why people buy into these gadgets and keep spending money for every new plane when they can buy a quality voltage checker once and be done with it.
I am willing to learn, however.
07-30-2006 | 10:02 AM
#17
Senior Member
RE: Voltwatch Question
I agree with Geistware and Gremlin, Voltwatchs can be quite useful when properly used and are much more apt to be used than a loaded voltmeter. Nothing against loaded voltmeters, again very useful if properly used. If you pay attention to the flickering (lowest LED lit) when exercising the sticks, the voltwatch will pick up problems that the loaded voltmeter will not. If you are in doubt, be a belt and suspenders type, use them both.
07-30-2006 | 09:19 PM
#18
Senior Member
My Feedback: (40)
RE: Voltwatch Question
I dont want to start an arguement 
but saying that a volt watch can pick up problems a load tester cant is flat out wrong.
A Hanger 9 tester like http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/Voltagetester.htm the one there can test up to 2amp load. A volt watch simply cant do that. Its one thing to move the sticks around on the ground with only surface load... but doing it in the air is different, there is now a load on that surface making the servo work harder.
but saying that a volt watch can pick up problems a load tester cant is flat out wrong.A Hanger 9 tester like http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/Voltagetester.htm the one there can test up to 2amp load. A volt watch simply cant do that. Its one thing to move the sticks around on the ground with only surface load... but doing it in the air is different, there is now a load on that surface making the servo work harder.
07-30-2006 | 11:04 PM
#19
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Voltwatch Question
A pin flag switch can be viewed at Fromeco.org. basically it's a switch where the installation or removal of a metal wire opens and closes the switch. The only moving part of the switch is in your hand when it's on.
I kind of view a Voltwatch like I would a sundial. I know it's daytime 'cuz the sun is out, and it's sometime either before or after noon. Anything closer than that is guess work. Both are kind of pretty in the right setting.
I kind of view a Voltwatch like I would a sundial. I know it's daytime 'cuz the sun is out, and it's sometime either before or after noon. Anything closer than that is guess work. Both are kind of pretty in the right setting.
07-31-2006 | 11:30 AM
#20
RE: Voltwatch Question
I find the on-board voltage monitors like the volt watch very useful and have put them in all my planes. Yes, there is a different technique to using them and they take a bit of interpretation - not as straightforward as a loaded DMM. They have saved me from flying with low batteries several times, identified when I have stuck servos, and reminded me to turn the switch off countless times. I do advise newcomers to get a loaded DMM first.
Actually I have been building my own battery monitors similar to a voltwatch using an old article from MA. Total cost for parts is about $5 plus a few hours of my time. Not a good investment if you value your time but I enjoy building electronic stuff. This also allows me to customize the voltage transitions of the LEDs to my liking.
Actually I have been building my own battery monitors similar to a voltwatch using an old article from MA. Total cost for parts is about $5 plus a few hours of my time. Not a good investment if you value your time but I enjoy building electronic stuff. This also allows me to customize the voltage transitions of the LEDs to my liking.
02-25-2007 | 10:09 PM
#21
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Olney,
MD
RE: Voltwatch Question
I use volt watches on my plane, I was wondering is there a proper way to use them? Should I wiggle the sticks and look at the voltage leds on the ground, if any of the leds go into the yellow or even red then recharge the battery? Or do I just not wiggle the sticks and monitor the voltage to determine if it is safe to fly?
Thanks,
John
Thanks,
John
02-25-2007 | 10:10 PM
#22
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Olney,
MD
RE: Voltwatch Question
I use volt watch es on my plane, I was wondering is there a proper way to use them? Should I wiggle the sticks and look at the volt age leds on the ground, if any of the leds go into the yellow or even red then recharge the battery? Or do I just not wiggle the sticks and monitor the volt age to determine if it is safe to fly?
Thanks,
John
Thanks,
John
