Mounted a new Evolution 58 in toy airplane, and it would not start. Removed engine from the toy and mounted it in a test stand so that I could observe operations (or lack thereof). With choke on, gas moves to the carb until it overflows (no bubbles in fuel line) and splatters onto the test stand and drips onto the floor (fuel appears to be coming out of the choke opening). Gas never gets to the engine. Reset needle valves to suggested initial position and got same result. Plug is completely dry, and I observe no fuel moving through the short line between carb and engine.

Based upon the pictures, can you tell me if I have the fuel lines installed corectly? I have tank line connected to the black plastic nipple. I have short line connected from the "cast" carb plate and the engine. I have a long line connected to the remaining nipple and "open space".

During my search on this subject, I read a thread in the MVVS forum about a MVVS 58 with inverted carb. Is my carb inverted? Since flights routinely includes inverted flight, can a carb ever be inverted?

Thanks for your assistance, Glover

PS I am completely new to engine powered toys. I fly sailplanes and electric toys, and I really want to fly this Evolution 58 powered toy. Maybe this experience is why I enter this hobby by flying slope toys.

please check:
line from tank goes to side of the carb
line from engine crankcase goes to cast cover
No line needed on sheet metal cover
Is there a spark? Spark gap must be 0.5 - 0.7mm ( ~0.025" )
Type -S ignition needs more than 6.4V to operate (2S LiPo or 6 cells NiMH)
Type -P ignition needs 3S LiPo

As a quick check, first mount your engine upright. When you get it running ok, it also should run well inverted.
Starting is quicker with carb manifold sloping down because gas gets to the engine easier. In flight it does not matter any more.

Taking off the rear engine cover and revolving it by 180deg solved my flooding problem, you will see from the pics my carb slopes upwards from the engine, the rear engine cover is O ring sealed to the crankcase, therefore only pull the cover off do not force or turn it or you may tear the O rings. Other than that Pé will be able to advise you better than me.

Mike

Pe: Except for the "sheet metal cover" line, my plumbing is as you describe. (I'll certainly remove that line as it's other end is not connected to anything.) When the ignition is switched on, I hear the "initial spark" from the ignition. The problem remains that the first whiff of gas has not gotten to the spark plug to react to an ignition spark. (Ignition voltage is the correct 2S LiPo, and the battery is fully charged.)

So, I'll call Horizon Hobby support in the morning and then decide if I should send the engine back to them for repair, or take it to the local chain saw repair shop. Were I to take the carb apart for inspection, I have no confidence that I would recognize the problem (or solution to that problem).

Thanks for your advise.

Fly safe, Glover

first mount the engine upright, so the fuel you draw with the choke will enter the engine. Now you pull fuel, and it just drips back the downslope without entering the engine.

Pe:

I rotated the engine to an attitude with the cylinder pointed up. Now, fuel does not spew from the choke opening. (There is just a light mist of fuel at the choke opening.) One small "bubble" of fuel has finally entered the small tube between the carb and the engine. Spark plug is still bone dry. My old rotator cuff surgery is screaming following countless flips of the prop.

It is amazing what $600 US dollars can buy! Now I ask myself, should I have just purchased another composite slope racer instead? It is really beautiful at Cape Blanco Oregon this time of year, and the wind is blowing a steady 30MPH from the north. Silly me! But what is a fellow to do with my winter build project of an OMP Hybrid Edge 540 with an engine that will not fire? I must see this through to the bitter end. A happy thought is that when I place my classified ad for this engine, I'll be able to state: "Engine is new and has been never run."

Thanks for your suggestions.

Fly safe, Glover

well -sounds like you got off on the wrong foot
If all was hooked up properly in the first place -- you should have seen a quick priming and easy start .

also if this did not happen - simply flipping endlessly is of no value on modern ignition engine
for one thing, the speed at which you flip it means NOTHING
My Evolution and ZDZ engines get lazy casual flops of the prop and if they are primed - all start instantly - as have ALL the gas engines I have done for magazine review - Da/ Fuji etc..
madly flipping the prop was an exercise associated with the magneto stuff from the byegone days of gas flying.
or simply bad setups .

Perhaps you got an engine with a problem.
It happens.
FWIW- my second gas engine had a bad carb and I once (just once) spent an hour trying flipping repeatedly - and rapidily.
I learned my lesson -and got a sore shoulder for my inexperience.
if the engine does not start fairly quickly - You did something wrong or something is wrong with the engine
On present modern engines, a lot of flipping and mad arm swinging is simply NOT required.

LOL that is exactly what I did with mine when horizon finally replaced it after 2 months of fighting the engine and sending it back and forth for service.

Dick:

I was being a little humorous regarding the endless prop flipping. I was just emphasizeing that I had given it a fair chance to perform as advertised. As you stated, I to have observed the ease with which guys with similar engines get them started. In all truth, I actually have another petrol engine. It is a DA-50 that a fellow modeler got started and tuned for me. Alas, on its first landing the Yak-54 ARF the DA-50 was in blissfully followed my instructions and landed in the ditch paralleling our runway. One wheel was actually on the runway... yea for me. (My sailplane experience does not include many runway landings, but I do practice runway landings on a simulator.)

Therefore, I pulled out my second wet power toy with the Evolution 58 in it which led me to this sorry saga. If the Evolution 58 had started as easily as the DA-50 did, I would have blissfully continued on my way thinking that my decision to try petrol powered toys was a good one (as long as I leave bad landing out of the scenerio). And to think that I had deliberately chosen a different 50cc sized engine for the Hybrid so that I could see how different manufactures products operate. In fact my current personal race is to see if I can get the DA-50 in a Double Vision and in the air before I can get this Evolution 58 to run.

I'll see what Horizon Hobby has to say about the Evolution 58 in the AM. If I have to send the Evolution 58 back to them, the DA-50 will get to experience a second rough landing before the Evolution 58 gets its first Earth Auger opportunity. I'm waiting for glue to dry in the DV as I key this diatribe.

Fly safe, Glover

Glover

First get rid of the one way valve on the fuel line they are more trouble than they are worth, close choke open throttle ignition off and flip prop, fuel should move down the feed line, keep flipping for another 4 times, put prop in TDC position i.e. on compression stroke, stand well clear of prop and switch on, the engine should fire on the plug cleaning one second spark, if it does not fire flip a couple of times and it should start, needles open one and a half turns each.

Mike

If the engine still is bone dry, the carb is clearly not admitting any fuel. I still am puzzled why the test stand gets wet though.
Since you are new to gas engines, this is not a remote help case.
Get someone more experienced to look at your carb (probably a sticking fuel needle). To unstick the fuel needle, reconnect the line to the sheet metal cover and blow pressure in it while you have the choke closed and flip the prop. This should unstick the needle and prepare the new carb for operation.
Look in this forum and search for "carb not pumping fuel" and like posts. It is a common problem with Walbro carbs, to the extent that the carb needs replacing.

Talked to Horizon, and the flying buddy who tuned my DA-50. Horizon says to send it in. Before I do, I'm going to take the engine and test stand to my friends house who wants to bet anything between "a dime and a dollar" that he can get it working. I'm going to give him a try this morning, and then send it off to Horizon this afternoon if necessary.

Fly safe, Glover

Thanks to the USPS, my Evolution 58 now flys... well to Illinois for service anyway.

Fly safe, Glover

Meaning your neighbor lost the bet?
You shoulda come over to me instead [&:]

Update.

Four weeks and two days later, I have gotten my engine back from Horizon. (I took them over two weeks to open the box.) They report that they also could not get the engine to start. They changed the ignition and reported that the engine now runs as advertised. After I stick it back in my OMP Hybrid, if that is case then I'll be a "happy modeler". But... I'll most definitely start it first on the test stand before it gets mounted in the toy airplane. I'll know for sure by this time next week. Thanks to you folks for trying to assist a rookie like me.

Fly safe, Glover