Saillfish

My Feedback: (17)

What do you mean you used to vent the regulator vent hole inside the fuselage? Go into a little more detail please.

R/C Foolish

My Feedback: (6)

Although Bill at C & H has not seen one of the new Saito motors, he did think that the plug could definitely cause the symptoms we are all experiencing. He wanted to know what plug Saito was using, I told him I would look at one of my spares when I got home tonight.

I am waiting for a call back from Horizon about the status of my motor.

R/C Foolish

R/C Foolish

My Feedback: (6)

I know what he means. Sometimes you would take a small tube and solder onto the vent hole so that you can vent it outside the fuse. That way when the tank pressure changes, it will keep constant pressure to the fuel pump.

R/C Foolish

Saillfish

My Feedback: (17)

are you talking about the vent hole on the carb?

R/C Foolish

My Feedback: (6)

yes

Saillfish

My Feedback: (17)

I just PM'd Bill at Horizon about the rimfire plug post to give him a heads up incase they want to do some testing. Could it be this easy? We will see.

R/C Foolish

My Feedback: (6)

I am pretty upset with Horizon Hobby at this moment. I just called to check on the status of my motor. Last week I was told it would be 4-5 days to get put into process. Now they are telling me it will be 10-14 days. And to top it off, it will take 24-48 hours to talk to a manager. In my opinion, that is not very good customer service. I paid $569 for a motor 3 months ago that doesn't run and they won't even give me the time of day. Hopefully someone at Horizon will see this!

R/C Foolish

modelflyer5

I got off the phone with them and I was told that it could take 24 to 48 hours just to open the package the engine was sent in. The girl said that they were extremely swamped.

When I discussed my engine problem with Horizon, I suggested that they might look at the ignition voltage falling off at higher revs. I have an Evolution35 gt2. When I first got it, Horizon suggested using a 4.8 volt battery pack. Then they suggested a 7.2 volt pack because the ignition needed more voltage at higher revs. I went to the higher voltage pack which made it run great. The guy at the other end of the line wouldn't consider this. I even suggested changing the plug to a higher heat range due to how much oil there is in the fuel.

I will be calling C&H ignitions to order me a Rimfire plug.

Thank RCU for letting us get together and compare notes on these products.

modelflyer5

I wanted to clear up one thing that I forgot to post on my last reply. The ignition might not be able to handle the 7.2 volt igniton pack. This would probably void your warranty. I didn't try it and you should not try it either. I just wanted to see if the ignition could handle it and Horizon said no. Bill at C&H, said that probably is true also. Bill also would like to try putting one of his ignitions on this engine to see what he could do with it. If you can't get satisfaction from Horizon, then I suggest giving Bill at C&H a try. I have seen a lot of engines with ignition problems that his products fixed.

Just a suggestion.

Happymcc

My Feedback: (1)

Bill at C&H would have to change the pickup position or install his timing ring .
The Saito ignition pickup is at Top Dead Center and the ignition retards timing for startup .
The C&H ignition pickup is retarded 22 degrees or so for startup and idle and then advances the
timing for run .
That is my understanding , could be wrong .
But if I am right it is a shame that there could not have been a standard way of doing it .

RC foolish is correct
We used to solder a tube to the vent hole but we used to run the tube inside the fuselage
and the reason being to keep the prop wash from changing the pressure that the regulator
sees .

karolh

$569 bucks for a motor that refuses to run as it should is a rather bitter pill to swallow. Really hope you guys get all sorted out, hopefully all it really needs is a plug upgrade.

Karol

Happymcc

My Feedback: (1)

I got on YouTube and found two video's on the FG-20 and both looked and sounded great .
I also had the advantage of having spare plugs and my father used to work for AC spark plug .
You know he used to tell me to use Champion's . I was about to put a scope on the ignition
but I could not find my adapter and with the shield it would not work anyway .

Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4W7X_VAvdg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF_XNtKth5E

I wonder if all the service problems are these FG-20's
Also wonder if it is the plug what they are going to do about it .
If it is the plug then the spark is either flowing up the ceramic or the ceramic is leaking .
Antique said that the RimFire is a better plug than the NGK makes me want to take my
cowl off and try one but if the weather is good I think I'll go flying

3rd Time

Sorry to hear that is going to be so long before they even look at your engine. I sent mine back yesterday so guess I will be lucky to hear from them till the end of April. I agree that is poor customer service and I bet they are swamped the FG-20 isn't the only engine they are having trouble with. Think I have purchased my last Item from Horizon If this is how the treat their customers. I wish us good luck on getting our engines fixed.

R/C Foolish

My Feedback: (6)

Now that I have calmed down, a while ago I got a phone call from Dave at Horizon. He apologized for the misinformation I was given. He said that motors are usually turned within 3-5 days. They have been flooded with the Spektrum DX-6 recall. He gave me some very good news that my motor was on the bench right now, would be run tomorrow and should ship back tomorrow as well. I have some rimfire plugs on the way also. I told Dave about our conversations here on RCU and told him they should look at these threads to get more information. My Edge is all ready to have this motor put back on and flown. Let's see if this is the answer.

R/C Foolish

tkg

My Feedback: (1)

Well lets hope that the Rimfires will help the problem, sure had a run on them today.[X(]
OK a self-serving moment, We haven't seen one of the FG-20 so I don't know exactly how the ignition setup works. But if this is an ignition related problem then I can make it run right with our ignition. We have done hundreds of 4C ignition conversion, so that's the easy part.
If its an engine design problem or a Monday morning build problem then all the ignition in the world ain't gonna fix it.

rmalko

Glad I have not started my FG 20 yet. I am going to order some Rim Fire 1/4X32 plugs tomorrow just in case. On my test stand I have a hole drilled out in the firewall for the vent on the carb. Otherwise the hole was right up against the wall with no flow. I think this will be a great motor once all is said and done.

Happymcc

My Feedback: (1)

TKG
Are you C&H ?

tkg

My Feedback: (1)

I are the engine guy at CH

Happymcc

My Feedback: (1)

tkg

I have 6 C&H ignitions and some have got to be 20 years old .
All are original and still working . I plan on updating the older \
ones with your syncro spark module

mmt33

Hi every body,
I bought my Saito fg 20 3 month ago and had nothing but trouble first it was not runing good sent it back and they said the sensor was bad and it was repaired when I tired it was again it was bad so sent it back for 2ed time and got it back and said the setting adjusted now it was fine, tried agian poor performance again and after five minutes on stand the carborator broke off engine and I sent it back for 3ed time , so far the shipping has cost me about $50 and I dont think it is over , waiting to hear from Horizon.
Gool luck to you all, we are in it for long sit tight!!!!!

MikeSteve

Hello,

I am still waiting to receive the FG20 I ordered in my local hobby shop 4 weeks ago.

I would like to express my opinion.

Maybe there are cents of RC forums all over the world. In the forums there is always the possibility for anyone to express his opinions, and to be honest, you can not trust 100% as it is free for anyone to write things without real knowledge of what is being written.

However, I would say that RCUniverse is, maybe, the first and most confident forum all over the world, and a reference. If I was a supplier, I would pay some attention to what is written in this forum, because this is a window to the world, and can influence a lot about modellers buying decissions. In fact, lot of vendors places references to RCU reviews in their product pages inside their e-commerce webs.

I would say that if some Saito representative has read this thread, he should provide a fast answer about what some modellers have detected and complained about new FG20.

There are several possibilities.

1) Nothing is faulty, except a wrong interpretation of the instruction to set up the carb engine.
2) Nothing is faulty, except wrong setting instructions. People is unable to fine tune the engines. This is not usual as there are several people with same problems, and experienced in breaking and tuning engines
3) someting is faulty. Then, something in the engine faults at some point in time, due to an unknown reason (carb, plug, ????).
If 3) is true, this could affect just an small number of engines (manufacturing process affecting just some units), or massively (design).

I do not know how many FG20 are already sold. But Saito should know about it, and depending of claims, could have an idea.
If there was real confidence that the engine is not faulty massively, and is running fine in the majority of cases (except the ones expossed in the thread), what I would do just as Saito representative is to say clearly that this is not affecting the number of engines already sold and distributed.

Otherwise, the silent leads to think that the problem could exist, and this becomes an issue, so then is the confidence and realiability of "brand" what is on the air.

Regards

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

One of you guys with a FG-20 that doesn't run correctly (ignition?) needs to send it to TKG and let him play with it for a couple weeks. We all may learn something?

togatoga

My Feedback: (42)

Apparently saito changed most things when they converted the 125 to gas like a new jug etc, but they left the carb alone other than add a pump in the process.This makes tuning a bit sensitive.My needle settings are not too far off from recommended.
My main gripe is the engine requires adequate cooling or it becomes erratic. The pickup is an induction 2 wire type like the fg36, so to change to an rcexl type ignition requires a pickup change.
I am still of the opinion that the engine is a bit pricey and I think one is enough for me!

modelflyer5

Do you own a FG-20? Do you have it running right?

Happymcc

My Feedback: (1)

Mine is running right , and I had all the same problems reported in this thread.
Tested again today and going flying tomorrow
I will report how it goes in the air .
All I have done is change the spark plug to an NGK but I have been told the RimFire is a better plug .