RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Ok, more of a traditional set-up. But keep in mind that if you turn off Rx power switch, that will also kill the ignition.

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

I can't find my digital volt meter but my old analog says 5.1 volts.

Andy

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

I'm pretty sure that 4.8 Volts is recommended on the Syssa. It's been a while since I read the manual.

Andy, did you read that manual I just sent you? It might still be fresh in your mind.

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Ok, I just remembered I had a new JR921 Rx and a spare battery so I just measured it. The battery is input was 6.98Volts, and the output of the Syssa IBEC output into the ignition was 5.97 volts. I am charging up the same battery and will remeasure it again.

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

It says to use a 4.8v pack, a 1100mah pack good for 5 flights @ 15 min per flight. Does not recommend 6V do to no performance gain and shorter flight time.

Andy

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

I think that 4.8 volts is what the ignition needs, but the servos work better on 6 volts. That is why I opted to pay $55 for the IBEC, so I can have the 6 volt battery and the ignition gets what it needs.
I just retested it, and with 7.24 input to the JR921 Rx, the IBEC output was 5.85 on both Aux 1 and Aux4. Here is what it looks like for those that have not seen it up close yet.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...s/DSC_0051.jpg

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

That was exactly what I remembered. Didn't want to poo-poo the 6Volts unless I was sure, though.

I wonder what a slightly higher Voltage could do to the EI ?

Snap-Crackle-Pop Rice Crispies? Let all the smoke-power out so it doesn't run anymore?

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

I did the same. I'm running an A123 on the system with the IBEC for the ignition.

Andy

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

One of the other Engine manufacturers was shipping with non-RCEXL ignitions and did not tell anyone. People were running 6V 5 cell packs and Poof !! Its to bad because no one had a clue.

Andy

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Andy

I also will run my sap180 with A123 batteries and the IBEC. Have you actually run this set up already ?

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Thanks all,
I was using a JR 4 cell 1500 Ma for ignition with an opto kill switch. my receiver has it's own 2200 ma 6 volt. 4.8 is definitly the recommended voltage for these.

I'd like to have double nut on the prop but their simply isn't enough shaft to accomodate. My engine back fired twice yesterday while trying hand propping ...threw the nut both times. Fortunatly the prop stayed on the shaft like a windmill. I have another ignition to try (old XYZ 50 cc) Good advice. I could here the plug clicking but maybe it wasn't a strong enough spark or out of time. I even considered the sensor or magnet somehow moved out of time, but quickly ruled that out.


I'll keep you posted. The weather is GREAT!

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

I have flown a couple planes with the A123's in them and love them! This will be my first IBEC set up, I figured its a Syssa engine, so I'm going with the Syssa IBEC. I'll let you know more when I get a chance.

Andy

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

MsgtRob,

I hope you get her flying ! Ignition problems are the worst. I did all kinds of stuff then took the ignition off my other plane and it ran perfect. Its not always the case, but yours is acting allot like mine did.

Andy

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

I have been running my DL50s ignition(rc-excel same as Syssa's) with a 6 volt regulated li-ion since new. my DA's also the same. as long as you have MAH to spare..

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Well, It looks like I'll need to send this back to Todd. Isn't that a B*&^%!

I slaved in a spare rexcel ignition and was able to reproduce exactly the same conditions experienced yesterday at the field. I here the plug click, see the gas flowing and backfire the propnut off. As exciting as this is, I prefer flying. Some of my dirt bike experience makes me think of the reed valves. But 18 Yrs of Jet engine Maintenance tells me look for the simple causes first. I'd hate to ship this back after only one fly day but...what do you think, Todd? Do you recommend I remove the carb, visual inspect the reeds? Any other thoughts for troubleshooting?

Rob

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Rob,

Are you dripping any fuel out the back of the carb ??

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Well, It looks like I'll need to send this back to Todd. Isn't that a B*&^%!

I slaved in a spare rexcel ignition and was able to reproduce exactly the same conditions experienced yesterday at the field. I here the plug click, see the gas flowing and backfire the propnut off. As exciting as this is, I prefer flying. Some of my dirt bike experience makes me think of the reed valves. But 18 Yrs of Jet engine Maintenance tells me look for the simple causes first. I'd hate to ship this back after only one fly day but...what do you think, Todd? Do you recommend I remove the carb, visual inspect the reeds? Any other thoughts for troubleshooting?

Rob


I had a similar problem on a 26cc gasser. I too was swapping out everything thinking the worst. Then I put in a new NGK plug and walla engine running good again. Hope you didn't overlook the obvious like I did.[8D]

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

I am dripping fuel after repeated start attempts, That's why I pulled the plug to purge the head, but i had not considered replacing the plug...Good One! That's what I'm talking about overlooking the simple stuff...losing the forest through the trees. But I do here it clicking, and I am able to get the back fire when it sparks. But it's worht a shot.

Rob

Well, that wasn't it either. I replaced the plug..same result.

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Sounds like a problem with the demand regulator in the carb? The needle and seat is not holding

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Many times a plug will fire at atmospheric pressures, but not at elevated pressure. There was a demo I once saw where you could put fouled spark plug in a chamber and look through a window and it would spark. Then there was a hand pump and as you increased the pressure, the fouled plugs stopped jumping the gap. I dealt with this on my MX bikes as well. Hope it is that simple for you.

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Rob,

Try the plug, if thats not it you might have a little crud in the carb. It sounds stupid dirt causing flooding but thats what happened to my 26cc.
there is a small screen that if crud gets in it or past it the needle will not seat and she won't start. I just cleaned the carb on one of my engines with out removing the carb, easy to do but don't loose the little spring under the needle arm.

Andy

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Thanks ,
Things I've done:
Removed both H and L needles to clean,
Different plugs-both new
different ignition
cleared/flowchecked fuel lines
Cleared both the internal walbro screen and the in line fuel filter in my system (also have crap trap on fuel pick up from the gas can,
reset H and L needels to 1.75 then 2.0 then 1.5 no worky

I suspect something in the carb or reed valve. I don't want to void any "warranty by pulling the carb completely unless Todd recommends it.

Interesting thing about spark plugs, they can't fire under high pressures. That's how a jet engine system works The spark plugs fire during engine start and keep firing untill burner pressure is great enough to supress them (engine idle and above) then if the engine flames out, the pilot doesn't have to try and put spark back on, because it's always on and will automatically start sparking when the burner pressure drops (below idle) and that's your Jet engine theory lesson for today LOL.

Thanks for all the inputs. Again, It's probably a very simple fix...just what? Previous flight was flawless, taxid to park, shut engine down with opto kill switch (aux on radio) let it sit while I flew my Extra (DLE 55) one flight. Refueled the Syssa (about 1/2 tank) and no worky.

I'll pull my tank later and recheck pickup line....but now I need to go fly and my Extra is waiting patiently in the truck..

Regards

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

PM sent to Msgt Rob

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

If a reed valve is bad, you will have trouble getting the carb to pump fuel and then trouble getting the fuel into the engine

If you put fuel in the combustion chamber, the engine will just "pop" and never run

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Have you tried by passing the Opti kill switch to check and see what happens as I have heard of folks having similar problems with such a switch in their system.

Karol

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

It's possible MsgtRob has tooo much prop on that motor for handflipping

Try an electric starter or a lighter prop

Also tighten prop bolt better??

Also you can squirt gas directly in cylinder through spark plug hole and it should start for a sec or two

probly nothing wrong with a brand new motor

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

The pumping part of carb may be dry...it will need to be wet by purging. Priming with a shot of fuel in intake should alow the engine to start & run a few seconds. If it does start....but dies soon as it is out of fuel....wet the inside of pump on carb. Capt,n

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

I think Scooterpilot knows of where Rob flies, hopefully between them they get her running.

Andy

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

I can say that 18 X 8 is not too much prop to hand flip. I video taped the first run and subsequent flights...all hand flipped no problem. The carb has fuel inside, the chamber had to be drained-purged. I once had an engine that would start then die as soon as throttle was advanced. It would idle all day. Turns out, it the fuel line swelled at the crank case pressure bleed. This pulse was necessary to get the fuel pump working. Not the case on this engine. the fuel flows no problem.

I think I will try and elliminate the Opto switch. That's a GREAT suggestion and I appreciate it. It just so happens I ordered another from Todd with a carbon spinner.

My prop nut was also torqued sufficiently, have you never seen the result of a back fire on a 2 or 4 stroke? Thats the reason for the safety nut on all four strokes..Id say this engine is a prime candidate for a safety back up.

The engine ran GREAT during break in for 15 minutes and even better in the sky for three long flights. What ever happened, occurred while it was resting. Scooterpilot made a great suggestion to re check all J connections for pushed pins TYVM..I'll do that and go no opto switch first thing tomorrow.

It acts like the engine timing is off, I'll try squirting fuel in but I'm more inclined to believe electrical problem.

Thanks ALL...more to follow.

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Rob,

I'm not sure you would have to ask Todd but I think the magnet would be @ TDC. I don't think it could or should happen but maybe a sheared key ? You could take out the plug and see if the magnet is inline with the piston. I'm not sure what holds the alignment on the hub.

Just another thought.

Andy

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

If the ignition doesn't retard you could get this reaction

Your sequence and spacing of your hand flips could effect this?

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Syssa recommends 4.8-6V, max actual 7V input from freshly charged 5c Nicds. Ignition information for NiCad/NiMH, LiPo and A123 can be found here: http://www.syssaaircraft.com/pdf/Ign...tins_final.pdf

With the IBEC, no worries - it plugs into the Rx so that is your power source, and it regulates accordingly.

Also, it is not at all a power hog. Powering both servos and IBEC with a regulated 700 mAh 2S LiPo (reg to 6.2v into the Rx), I consistently recorded at most a 0.15V drop in battery voltage after 10-12 minute flights with a 2M pattern plane. Load-tested with a 500mAh load, the battery voltage held up fine.

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Let me correct that statement, the A123's were on the radio's , I have a couple 4.8V nicd packs I use on the ignitions. :D

Andy

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Andy

I flew two airplanes all last summer both with 1100 mah A123 packs. One airplane was a pattern airplane and it was flown approx. 100 flights. I would use about 110 mah per flight. I would fly 4-5 flights and then charge. Only takes 8-9 min.. I love em. Will prob. go with two 1100 packs on my new SAP 180 pattern airplane. And the IBEC. Don't need any regulators. Less to go wrong. Simple is good.;)

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Hey, Andy, my edit got crossed up with your follow-up!:eek:

As per my edit, with the IBEC you don't need a separate ignition battery, nor an ignition switch. 'IBE' stands for Ignition Battery Eliminator, which is its primary use, with the optical kill cabability just icing on the cake.

On my Focus II, I actually have dual-redundant Rx power supply, using 2 Tech-aero switch/regulators, with 2 700-mAh LiPo's, plugged into separate slots in the Rx, and the IBEC plugged into another slot. The switches are "fail on," which means I could lose one battery and both switches and the plane would still fly and the ignition would work fine. The whole power system - switches, regulators, batteries, IBEC - weigh a total of 5.7 oz.

EDIT: Oops, as you can see in the photo, the batts are 800 mAh, not 700.

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Bob

How many mah you figure you use each flight on your Focus II ?

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

I ran an engine a few weeks ago, then I went to run it again and put some more fuel in, and nothing. Pulled it all apart, and then after eliminating everything else I went out and got a fresh gallon of gas from the gas station and mixed up some fresh mix..

Started right up when the fresh fuel hit the spark.

The other gas had been sitting there for months in the can. Smelled fine, just WOULD NOT FIRE. That's a pretty simple thing. Hope it helps!

I also like the idea of pulling the Opto-kill switch out of the system to eliminate that possibility. Good idea.

I got my double-jam nut from Tru-Turn for the older Saito 150s (8 X 1.25), and they're very short. I'm using it to hold my prop hub on my SAP180. Works great, lets me use my starter too.

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Or are stuck closed? Not likely on a new engine, but....

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Dan, last time I flew, after the first engine start-up I spent a good while (maybe 6-7 minutes?) working with the throttle curve on the Tx, then re-fueled and got in three 9 to 11-minute flights.

I did not realize that my batteries/regs were operating in the "hot stand-by" mode, which means I was, in effect, using only 1 of the 700 mAh batteries. I charged it at home with a Cellpro 10S and it indicated 544 mAh in, therefore roughly 150 mAh per flight. Not bad at all for servos and ignition!

With the balanced reg set-up - drawing equally upon both 700-mAh batteries - it is not unreasonable to expect 5-6 flights before recharging, and that's being fairly conservative. Very handy capacity, because that's about as many flights as most of us would ever care to fly in one day.:eek:

EDIT: As above, the LiPo's are in fact 800 mAh, not 700, so easily 6 flights, with a lot of cushion.

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Yeah, that's one thing I suspected but quickly ruled it out as the magnet and key stock is still locked together, the Hall sensor still tight. Good cross check though, thanks!
I took the opto switch out, put syssa's on off switch and battery. I can here the plug fire again, but won't know until tomorrow if she'll run.

the ignition is retarded....lol

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SAP180 first run from Rob M on Vimeo.</p>