I have an Aeroworks 29% Edge 540 that I would like to use to learn 3D and I've not really found much info about proper 3D setup. I know that you want an aft CG, but how far aft should the CG be? I also know that you want really large control surface throws on the rudder and elevator, but what about ailerons?

I am also wondering about servo arms and linkages for 3D throws. It seems that in order to get proper 3D throws you will have to use long servo arms and short control horns. However, this is not the best geometry for transferring maximum force (torque) from the servo, and for preventing flutter. It's also doesn't seem good for non-3D throws (normal flying) as you will have to have the servo travel dialed way down. I've read that is not good for your servos...

TIA for your help!

1. Start fresh with a new program or reset an old one. DO NOT USE PRE-EXISTING PROGRAMS.

2. Make sure that all of your control horns put the pivot point in the center of the hinge line and that the pivot point per surface type (Elev., Ail., Rudd) is an equal distance from the hinge line. What this means is if you measured from the hinge line to your pivot point on the left Elev. and the distance was 1.75 inches then you need to make sure that it is the same way on the opp. side. This should make it so each surface will travel the same amount, as long as equal length servo arms are used.

3. Make sure to get each servo and servo arm combination (1.25 inch servo arms for Elev./Rudder and 1 to 1.25inch for Ail is what I use)is set up ahead of time, so the servo arms are 90 degrees to the servo with little or no sub trim. Subtrim is okay but it should always be equal from side to side. For example: Your left ail. should never have 60% subtrim and the right side 0%. If this is the case, go 30% on each side and then adjust the linkage. I can't explain it technically but when you keep these things equal it helps your radio electronically and allows your servos to maintain there best resolution. The same theory goes for ATV's and AFR. Now once all the centers are set, its all downhill from this point.


4. I am assuming most people are doing some 3D or at least want there planes to be capable of it when the time comes. Recently I learned that even one of the best pilots in the world didn't really understand how to use his own equipment and he had been fully sponsored by a radio manufacture for several years, so don't feel bad if you have not figured this out either. I am going to use Futaba Terms since that is the brand I fly.
When using two channels for elev., or ail. always make sure the right elev . is pluged into channel two (ELEV)and the right ail is plugged into channel 1(AIL.). (Left elev. channel 5, left ail. channel 6 or 7, I always use 6. Make sure to activate ALV to do your elev. mixing, and then activate Flapperons, or Ail Differential, for your Ail. mixing). These functions automatically link your trims for you. Now here is the important stuff. Never run your ATV's above 120% or below 80%, and you should try to keep your low rates above 50%. You CAN and SHOULD run your AFR's up as high as they will go in order to get your maximum control through. Remember ATV affects dual rate, expo, P-mix, Trim rates, and just about everything else. Imagine ATV 140%, for max. travel at the surface. That works for 3D, but what happens when you want to do a slow roll. Your lowrates are now down at 20% and you might as well forget about having any type of servo resolution. To fix everything at once put the ATV at 100%, Dual rate at 60%, and AFR's at 140%. Now everything will work to its optimum. The only thing left is setting Expos, and I do that in 2 places. In the dual rate menu I start with Elev/Ail. at 40% and Rudd at 30%, and then in the AFR menu I will set them all to 60%.

As for C.G. don't get to carried away with being super Tail heavy. If you are able to get 45-50 of Elev./Rudd. and 30-40 degrees of ail travel most any manuever is possible, especially with an edge of any size. For waterfalls harriers, hovering, and blenders, just get the through amounts mentioned above, and start at the manufacters recommended aft CG location.

Hope this helps

Chip

Hi Chip,

Thanks for the reply... Now that Santa has brought me a 9Z I have more of an idea about what you are talking about... I have been using an 8U Super and most of the explanation given was not applicable...

It looks like AFR is the trick to getting the setup that I am looking for... I assume that I'll want to program in a 3D and an IMAC flight condition and choose the correct one... Does that sound like a good idea?

TIA for your help!

Can you explain what AFR is?????

To be honest I don't really yet know exacly what AFR does... I can read about it in my 9Z manual, but that hasn't helped me really understand it...

AFR stands for Adjustable Function Rate and is used to adjust the throw and operation curve of the lever, switch, or slider... Expo is also somehow tied into AFR on the 9Z... I was hoping Chip would add some better explanations of the finer points of 9Z programming...

Galen
AFR (Adjustable Function Rate) is your end point adjustment. What this means is that you can adjust the amount of travel you'll have on high rate without effecting you low rate settings, p-mixs, expos etc. like ATV (Adjustable Travel Volume) will.
AFR is what you want to always use when you need to increase or decrease the amount your surfaces will move. ONLY use (ATV) during your initial set-up in order to get both elevators, or ailerons to travel equally when using seperate channels (1+6/7 for ail. and 2+5 for Elev.) after Flaperon(FLPN)and Alavator(ALV) is activated in your Transmitter. One other thing that you need to remember. (ATV) is never linked between channels even when using the (ALV or FLPN) functions. This is so you can get your travel exactly the same from side to side. It should never be more then about a 10% difference between the channels of the surfaces you are trying to match.

Once they are moving the same amount and the centers line up, then you can go to (AFR) and add as much as you need to get the travel you are looking for on High Rate. This menu is also where you adjust the (EXPO) at for you high rates and you do this byscrolling your cursor to the NXT and selecting it.
Typically I will start around -60% on elev/ail, and -40% on rudder (MAKE SURE YOU USE NEGATIVE #'s FOR ALL EXPO AMOUNTS)

Once part is through just activate your dual rates, set the EXPO's and your about done.

Let me know if I have missed anything or you would like me to continue with something else. Sometimes its best to just put the manual aside and hook up your system so you can get a visual of what your adjusting by wacthing the servo themselves move.

Chip

I normally don't recommend the use of flight conditions because it is far easier IMO to just have a IMAC/pattern model and then have a seperate Freestyle model. Typically in order to get the optimum in both areas, you need to change the C.G. anyway and this will change your trims and mixes just a little bit. In order to avoid having to trim the plane out again when you do this, just select the other model and it will already be trimmed perfectly.

The only other reason I use 1 flight condition is to set up a third rate. This could be your 3D rate if desired and you can assign everything to one switch so that when you flip it you get the maximum travel your set up will allow. This will also allow you to have different percentages of P-MIX and EXPO to compensate for the increased throw.

I would never set flight conditions for something simple like dual rates, because its a lot to remember when you decide to make a change, and I have seen to many people forget to change every condition. Also keep in mind it takes longer to program because "you have options"

Chip
Futaba 9Z The Power of One

Check my reply to the next post.

Thanks

Chip

Hi Chip,
I'm working on my first real 3D setup on my first real 3d plane. I was lucky enough to be able to get a 9Z a while back. I see that you do not recommend flight conditions for 3D? I have my plane set up by making one basic condition, with all the options I want enabled, like ailevator or flaperon. I then copied this condition to two other conditions, and changed the ATV's on them. Now, I have full throw on all surfaces when the switch is at the top, I have medium throws in the middle, and I have low throws at the bottom. (Low throws are only for flight testing really).
I have yet to add expo cause I can't remember where that is (hint hint..hehehe) but I'm pretty happy with this idea. Would it be better to scratch this and do it differently? I know that I will nead to do alot of tuning in the future but I thought that this would be a good idea. Any other hints for setting up the plane?
Thanks man, your really helping alot.

Wild Beat.

PS plane is an MK acro Z with a YS 63, futaba 9202's and a 9404 on rudder. Weighs a shade over 5 pounds.

Expo is in the AFR function, as Chip says. Having selected AFR, press nxt (L) and it takes you to the expo screen.

From what I understand, and I'm sure Chip will correct me if I am wrong, ATV works by channel, so setting the end points for each. Therefore eg if you use two aileron servos, you can use different ATV settings to get the same through out each of channel 1 and 7.

Having done this, AFR sets the throws by function. Therefore having selected eg Flaperon to get two aileron servos working, and having used ATV to set the end points for each individual servo, AFR then sets the control movement for both together.

Hey Chip,
I have a Futbaba 9C. On my U CAN DO .60 I have a problem with the endpoint adjustment between high and low rates on my elevator surfaces. Whenever I setup endpoints to match up the elevator travel on low rates, the high rate ep throws dont match up. In other words, at full throw low rates the end point of travel matches up perfectly, but when I switch to high rates and give full up or down the sufaces may be as much as 1/4" off. Most of the misaligment occurs at that last, say,, 10degrees of throw.

Question,
Do you know if the 9C has the ability to set up different endpoints on different rates? If it does I cant find it.

If it doesnt, is there something mechanically that I may have out of square? I have done all I know to do and I cant figure it out.

My quick solution has been to get the endpoints adjusted out on high rate and then just live with it on low rates since I seldom use full up or down elevator on low rates.

Im hoping that I have something mechanically setup wrong that will correct this.

Thanks,
Mike

What you are doing will work fine, but you need to remember when making a change, for example to a P-MIX you will have to do it in every flight mode. You can also accomplish what you are doing with three seperate flight modes, by activating your dual rates, selecting the switch or stick you want them on, and then copying this to a flight condition if you need a third rate. Now you only have to set up your TX once and use 1 condition for the highest rate. Either way will work fine, I just go the other route because its easier for me, and doesn't clog up my Cam Pac.

EXPO is in two places, one is your dual rate menu, and the other is in the AFR menu. You need to set the EXPO in both places when using dual rates, and you'll need NEGATIVE #'s for a softer feel around nuetral with Futaba, and POSITIVE #'s for the same with JR.

One last thing, after you have copied your conditions, use AFR to set your endpoints not ATV. Remember all of your function mixes work off of your ATV, so if that is different from condition to condition your mixes will also need to be set differently. AFR is the one that can be changed without affecting anything else.

Chip

Mike,

I am thinking you are using two seperate channels for Elev, and mixing with the TX. Before we go any further, I need to know what 2 channels you have and the mix you are using. I know the 9C is different from the other Futaba TX's in the way that this is done, but it actually works the best. Also make sure all servo arms and control horns are exactly the same from side to side, as well as the angle that your linkage is at from the servo arm to the control horn. This stuff is the most critical to have as close as possible to each other from side to side.

If one servo points up, and the other down, the best you will ever get is just going to be close as far as equal throw is concerned. Make sure all your percentages are at an even 100, as well as zeroing out your subtrims. If nescasary change servo arms until this is done. At this point I would have to say you should be able to do a little fine tuning with your ATV's and you'll be set.

Please double check to make sure its not one Elev. just being hinged a little tighter then the other, I have had that happen, and it will drive you crazy. One last thing, don't settle for anything less then equal travel on high and low rate, there is always a way to get there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me know

Chip