Michael Basson

My Feedback: (1)

Hi there all

i have finally got the guts to go fly my edge 540T. first gasser so i am a bit scared of the maiden flight.

i did a range test. at 40 paces the plane started glitching. the one half of the plane moves faster than the other half. the slow half looks like it almost doesnt move smooth but almost in steps.

2nd range test and at 4 paces the radio was dead.[:@][:@][:@]

3rd time it went up to 30 paces then did the same weird movements.

now my ignition battery, ignition and flight packs are pretty close together. my flight packs i had to put in the front of plane above the landing gear to sort out the CG problem. could this be to close to ignition?

also my 3 switches are right on top of each other. ignition on top then 2 switches on the bottem of that. my aerials are on the bottom of the plane.

crystals have been swoped and i have changed everything i could.

the floating bellcranck has one servo mounted higher than the other. the 2 receivers lie on each side under the highest mounted servo.
[:@]
receivers are very far from ignition.

any advise should i change something???


please help i am scared of this plane now and i want to sort it out before i fly it.


any help will be appreciated

Michael

fiveoboy01

My Feedback: (3)

30 paces is pretty good for a range check. Every plane I've had, much more than that and everything starts jittering.

You may want to try running just one reciever. 2 aren't necessary on a plane of this size, and I have heard of reduced range when using 2 recievers.

bentgear

Michael, as a test temporarily move the switches apart and move the receiver battery to the rear. If the problem goes away you know you need to rearrange things for more separation. Some may say to stick a PCM receiver in it and go fly, DON'T. You need to fix the problem first, not mask it.

Ed M.

Michael Basson

My Feedback: (1)

yes i have PCM receivers. i will get the switches and packs away from front.

i am taking out the floating bellcrank and putting one servo on the rudder. are 2 receivers not better than one for if one fails, i also heard from a guy today at our club that 2 receivers reduce range. if i solve the problem by moving the packs and switches will it be fine to use 2 receivers? just for backup?

Michael

Buzz Lightyear

Michael

I test flew my 35% Extra 330LX on the weekend. I too was confused over the 1 or 2 RX thing. I did some tests with the 3w100 runnning and not running. I turned 2 rx's on and then turn one off and then the other. There was not one bit of difference in the range. I didn't have a problem with the 2 Rx's in the air......in fact, I couldn't be happier. I loved it. 1 or 2 RX's is a personal thing. Go with what ever makes you happy.

As for the rest, I keep the RX/antenna as far away from everything as possible. Don't let it cross any battery leads. Danno, it could be all crap, but it has always worked for me.

Cheers

Buzz

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

The test that indicated a dead radio should send up some large red flags!!!
That is not at all an interference problem, it's a complete loss of signal or power problem, unless the radio went into a prolonged failsafe.

What kind of a range check do you get with the engine not running? IMO, 30 or 40 paces with the engine running is not a very good range check. With several different radios, I always get over 180 feet, or more, engine running or not. You should too.

What kind of engine?

Next, what kind of plug?

Is it a resistor plug if one is available for you engine?

Are you using a bunch of old servo extensions that you have had lying around for a long time?

Are the switches new and heavy duty?

Do you have the ignition properly grounded?

Have you tried the range check with only one receiver, instead of both at the same time?

Are the crystals in the receivers held tightly in place with tape?

Are the crystals new, or in good shape, or have they been through a crash before?

Have you installed some foam around the receiver to prevent vibration?

Are all the servo connections tight?

Do you have a bunch of metal to metal connections?

Are the Rx antennas wrapped around the servo leads?

Do you have good battery connections?

I would look at all of the above before I started to move anything around. It's likely that the problem is not from location, but from loose or worn parts, or improper installation practices.

rctom

I agree with all the Silversurfer said, but to try to simplify things, first run a test with a single receiver turned on, this should be easy enough. I normally require that I get at least 150 feet with no glitching with engine running and one segment of the antenna showing on my Futaba 9C.

If that 1 receiver passes, try again with both receivers turned on. If no change, and everything is solid, you can fly.

Most worrisome is the one test you made when nothing worked. This points to an intermittent connection or component. Do not fly that way, you must be sure it's all solid before you fly.

If the range test fails in either single or dual RX, try it again with the engine off. If it fails that way there's something seriously wrong.

TF

Futurase

My Feedback: (10)

You need no seperate the ignition system from the rest of the radio system by as much room as you can. One RX will give much better range than 2 will. JR official stance on it is one RX is definetly better than two and they are dead right as I have done range testing to prove it myself.

30 paces is a joke. I have one JR S-PCM Dual conversion RX in Tom's Edge and I get over 100 paces engine off and over 100 paces engine on. I actually don't know how far it will go I stop at 100 You have some major problems. Like it has been said PCM is no cure, but will only mask a problem. If PCM RX's cut out like you said then eliminate things one at a time. Toss one RX for ground testing sake and take out any and all battery backers and etc. you have. Use only one RX pack and one ignition pack. SIMPLIFY. Go from there. Your switches are all by each other you said. Could be it as my ignition switch is at the very front and my RX switch is at the very back of the hatch. As far away from each other as possible. RX pack is at the back of the hatch and ignition battery is under the cowl on the inside of the engien box. Distance is the key.

Let us know how it comes. Above all else DO NOT fly that thing until it IS right. You have invested too much and the reward is just around the corner of a great plane. You will get this sorted out and then the rest is pie.

Norman Ross

Michael Basson

My Feedback: (1)

i check one receiver at a time.

but as i recall even with the motor off it was not good. i will check it again today!! as for everything in the plane it is all brand spanking new. i heard now today even a servo can give problems with range and so on. is this true? this is my first large plane so i do not know what to expect. i am very scared of this bird now. what if this glitch happens in the air? disaster comes to mind very quickly.[&o]

i will check everthing and use all the advise. will let you know if i find the problem.

as for now those receivers are the first to be checked.

OT why is my plane so tail heavy with a DA 50 in? my battery packs are now mounted above the landing gear. as far forward as possible.

thanks for all the advise so far.

much appreciated

Michael
South Africa

P.S. What can i expect of the plane with the first take-off besides pure thrill.

rctom

If you leave it tail heavy you can expect the opposite of a thrill. Get the balance and the radio right before you fly it.

TF

bentgear

Michael, if its glithing that way with the engine off then its time for some drastic testing. Go down to one receiver and plug in one servo and test, add another servo and test, add another servo and test, etc. Keep testing til the problem shows up. If the first servo causes a glitch swap it with another and see if the problem goes away. Change receivers and do it all again. At some point you will narrow the problem to one component.

BTW, if its truly tail heavy when you balance it correct this situation before you fly it the first time......

Ed M.

Michael Basson

My Feedback: (1)

CG problem solved

Have tested the one receiver not good, the receiver is faulty will have to get other one.

still testing the second one, it looks better but we'll see.

Michael

bentgear

Sounds like you are on the right track, good luck and may the intial flight, when it comes, be enjoyable.

Ed M.

Michael Basson

My Feedback: (1)

Hi all

have just finished testing my equipment and i still have the problem!!![&o]

it glitches with the engine off.

can my radio crystal or radio be faulty? i tested my glow plane and with aerial collapsed i can get 20 paces with the plane?

what do i do know.

Michael

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

If you can't get it to be problem free without the engine running (which eliminated the engine as a cause), you have only two choices. Replace the crystals, and or module if you have one, or send the primary radio components off to the manufacturer for a good check up. I would go the check up route in any event. See if you can borrow someone elses Tx and Rx for a system check. If that works well, you know the problem is with your Tx or Rx. If it doesn't then you have a battery or switch problem.

20 paces (60 feet) is a terrible range test with the antenna collapsed or removed. I wouldn't consider flying the glow plane either.

dannny745

My Feedback: (-1)

make sure your antennas are not to close or crossing each other.and keep servo wires away from antenas..guy at feild had same prob.

sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

I just went through this a couple months ago.

Here's my official procedure. Don't secure the antennae(s)... leave them loose so you can tape them to different locations on the fuse while testing. Plug a battery into a switch into a RX. Plug one servo in... test. Plug a second in... test. And on and on. If you get a glitch, you can try moving an antennae or two. Keep building slowly. Twist the wire on all your servo extensions. At least 1 twist per inch. If moving the antennaes don't help, the last component was the problem (either the servo OR the extension could be bad... try the same servo with a different extension). If the first servo is bad, the RX, battery, reg, or switch could be the problem. It's really a common sense building block approach.

For me... all said and done... the problem was my TX module. Go figure. The above procedure is still valid, though.

I NEVER let ANY radio component come within 10" of ANY ignition component (switches, batteries, leads, etc...). Personal preference, plus the ignition directions specify this. I figure the engineers have to know something about the product they put together with their own nuggets. If the shielding ever breaks down you're in trouble. Granted, with the motor off this shouldn't matter, but down the road it might.

Also... this Edge is known to come out tail heavy. That's why I bought an Extra instead. It's the same reason I won't put a DA-50 on a comp arf 2.3. There are other planes out there you can build correctly. Not that you need to hear this now.

rctom

That's all good advice, but if you have to go through twisting the extensions to get a good range check there's something else wrong.

I build a plane in a hurry. I just throw everything into it and tie it down so it doesn't come unplugged in flight. No sp[ecial attention to anything except using good parts. I put the anbtenna on the outside bottom of the fuse and tie it to the tail with a rubber band.

This works for me with apparently quite a bit of margin. Not recommending it, but this is an example of how good the average radio is, yours should be as good.

TF

JunkMan304

My Feedback: (3)

If your using a FM Rx it's picking up engine noise. I had my FM Rx all the way to the back of the hatch opening behind my rudder servo and was still getting engine noise. I went to a PCM Rx and flew the piss out of it all summer.

Michael Basson

My Feedback: (1)

well guys i am at my last checking.

i think it is the module

will let ya know by the end of the week

Michael

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Michael,

If your radio is a JR, and since you noted that it had a module, I will presume it is, have you left the transmitter on and forgotten to turn it off? If you have done this, and run the Tx battery down to a zero charge state with the antenna collapsed, then the module has likely been damaged to some extent.

This was explained to me in more detail than I am capable of passing on by a ham radio type the other day. The primary tuning components of the radio are in the module, and transmitting while running the battery down with a lowered or removed antenna causes a change to take place in the tuning. A new module with a crystal runs in the neighborhood of $70.00

Michael Basson

My Feedback: (1)

OK here is my idea

i think my servo wires are the problem. i have removed the 2 elevator servo's causing the problem and replaced it with 2 different servo's and also geniune JR Extensions. if these are connected to either receiver the plane glitches. if i however remove the 2 servo's the glitching stops and there is no problem.

if this is my problem how do i overcome this as the extension are just long enough to reach the receivers? and yes the original servo extensions i had in were curled heavy duty servo extension.

Michael

rctom

OK, you're getting close. The next step is to remove the extensions and 1 servo. Take 1 servo and pul it directly into the receiver. IF that works ok add the second servo direct.

I'm betting that one of the two servos will be the cause of the glitch and not the extensions, however if both sevos work OK when plugged in directly then the problem must be in the extensions. Again, add them back in 1 at a time.

Also, how are you connecting them. 2 channels on the RX or 1? If you use a single channel for 2 servos there must be a Y cable in there somewhere, have you checked that? If you use 2 channels the problem could be in 1 of the receiver channels, try it with a Y instead.

TF

Michael Basson

My Feedback: (1)

Hi there Tom

Well i have tried 2 different servo and extensions. i plugged the 2 in direct no problem i think is the lenght of the wire. could this be a problem?

i am on the edge. really. i have now tried everything. PLEASE HELP ME

Michael

sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

Twist the wires and change the length of the wires. It could be that you are at a length that resonates with the signal. If you ADD or subtract a little bit of length the problem may go away.

After you figure out your problem, one way to subtract a little, though you probably don't want to do this, is to cut off the connectors and solder the servo wires to the extension. I've started doing this to prevent corrosion in the extrension plugs from causing intermittent contact when coupled with vibration (a known condition), especially with my long winter storage periods. This keeps me from having to pull the extensions yearly to clean the plugs. Also, I've heard you can lose almost 1/2 of a volt at a plug... soldering virtually eliminates this.

You can also try an RF filter on your extensions.

Cheers and Good Luck!

I feel for you man... I went around and around for almost a month with mine.