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Old 08-26-2022, 04:26 PM
  #52776  
Jesse Open
 
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Pretty close to the same thing on the 48 tooth camgears. 48÷.937=51 pitch
Yes, they are.

Saito thought out the basic layout wel very early on. Proven to be a very versatile, building block system

Last edited by Jesse Open; 08-26-2022 at 04:29 PM.
Old 08-26-2022, 04:43 PM
  #52777  
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My first attempt at reconditioning worn tappets. No lathe or mill used. Free hand on a belt sander for fast material removal, a block of hardwood with a .158 hole drilled through, a piece of adhesive backed sandpaper on a flat surface and finished with a buffing wheel. Took about 4 minutes each.


Last edited by Glowgeek; 08-26-2022 at 05:28 PM.
Old 08-26-2022, 05:34 PM
  #52778  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
The 200TI does have a 24/48 spur gear configuration. All of small and mid block Saitos use 24/48 afaik. The large case engines use a 20/40 configuration. Just say'n.
edited. because I posted before I read the last few posts.

I pulled out the used 100 cam I have and it does look to have 48pitched teeth. Saito should tighten up the lash some. because when I relocated the breather on my brand new 100 that cam must have had a good 2 degrees of lash.

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 08-26-2022 at 05:41 PM.
Old 08-27-2022, 01:52 AM
  #52779  
1200SportsterRider
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They look good.
Old 08-27-2022, 03:25 AM
  #52780  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
edited. because I posted before I read the last few posts.

I pulled out the used 100 cam I have and it does look to have 48pitched teeth. Saito should tighten up the lash some. because when I relocated the breather on my brand new 100 that cam must have had a good 2 degrees of lash.

Jim
Jim, you can tighten the lash yourself by reducing the thickness of the cam cover gasket. I experimented with that once on an engine where all the machining tolerances went the wrong way. It was very loosey goosey with the factory .008" thick gasket, and that was with a new Camear and Camgear pin. Iirc, I reduced the gasket thickness by .002".

Anyway, the engine didn't run any quieter or any better with tighter gear clearances.

Important note: Saito camgear pitch diameters are not perfectly concentric with the camgear pin hole, verified by my previous measurements. If you reduce the gasket thickness too much the gears will bind every 720° of crank rotation. I wouldn't set it up for that slight bind at room temp either, even though I know the lash loosens a bit as the engine heats up. And then oil film thickness plays a role as well.

All things I'm sure that Saito has considered when selecting the thickness of the camgear cover gasket.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 08-27-2022 at 03:52 AM.
Old 08-27-2022, 02:48 PM
  #52781  
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Glossy playboy magazine covers make good gasket material for our saito engines.
Old 08-27-2022, 05:25 PM
  #52782  
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Well, my first flying day in a couple years lasted 11.5 minutes, I had the RCM about 12" from touch down when the Saito 62 suddenly quit. It did a 4" bounce then settled down perfectly. When I was carrying the plane back fuel was leaking out of the fuselage all over my left hand. I found the culprit. There is a .375" split at the bottom of the fuel tank plug hole. The fuel has soaked from the firewall back to the even with the leading edge. The RCM 40 is history The wood is already flexible. The 62 is already on the black and white LT 40. More later.


Last edited by 1200SportsterRider; 08-27-2022 at 05:29 PM.
Old 08-27-2022, 05:35 PM
  #52783  
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Awwww, that's a bummer Dave.

The ol' "crack in the bung hole" failure.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 08-27-2022 at 05:43 PM.
Old 08-28-2022, 02:34 AM
  #52784  
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Thanks Lonnie, I paid $99.00 for that plane in the year 2,000ish. I was thinking of the many places that I have flown that plane. Pax Aero at the Pax River Naval base, Md., Summersville, W. Va., Tazewell, Va. 400 miles southwest of here, Ft. Belvoir, Va. It has been around.
PS, also flew it at a private field where a local guy has two home built aircraft.
I am upgrading the servos in my black and white LT 40, for example placing JR DS 811 digital servos in the wing and JR 531's in the fuse. All will handle 6 volts.

Last edited by 1200SportsterRider; 08-28-2022 at 03:08 AM. Reason: Add image
Old 08-28-2022, 08:36 AM
  #52785  
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Pull the engine, stick some lead to balance, cheap nearly dead servos and a battery on it's last legs, then find someone to give it a tow to altitude and let it have one last flight. See how fast it can reach terminal velocity.

On the Saito valve covers, what are they made from and can they be anodized? If I could black chrome them, that would look freaking cool.
Old 08-28-2022, 11:06 AM
  #52786  
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Originally Posted by acdii

On the Saito valve covers, what are they made from and can they be anodized? If I could black chrome them, that would look freaking cool.

I have stripped the chrome from several Saito covers and polished them. They polish out very well.
The Saito covers are cast, looks like aluminum. Most aluminum cast alloys do not anodize well.


Before: Badly weathered Saito valve covers.

Same covers, after stripping chrome and polishing the aluminum.

Last edited by Jesse Open; 08-28-2022 at 11:57 AM.
Old 08-28-2022, 11:31 AM
  #52787  
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They can be plated though, first a copper plate then the black chrome, but it would be too expensive. $150 for a gallon of solution.
Old 08-28-2022, 11:56 AM
  #52788  
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Originally Posted by acdii
They can be plated though, first a copper plate then the black chrome, but it would be too expensive. $150 for a gallon of solution.
Yes, of course they can be plated. Not many platers would even bother with the job.

I like to just strip them and brush finish. You can then use a tinted clear coat for accent.
Old 08-28-2022, 12:00 PM
  #52789  
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Yeah, I would plate it myself, but not worth the cost of the solution for a couple rockers.
Old 08-28-2022, 01:12 PM
  #52790  
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Originally Posted by acdii
They can be plated though, first a copper plate then the black chrome, but it would be too expensive. $150 for a gallon of solution.
$150/gallon!
Yikes, that $150 could buy 60 gallons of methanol

Besides, there are only a few people who appreciate nicely thought out details and well finshed mechanical devices.

Old 08-28-2022, 01:21 PM
  #52791  
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Have the rocker covers thrown in with a batch of other parts at the platers? I did that a couple of times back when I lived in the big city. Very affordable that way, at least it was for anodizing.

BTW, there was a guy on eBay that sold machined aluminum Saito rocker covers anodized in various colors. May still be there.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 08-28-2022 at 01:25 PM.
Old 08-28-2022, 01:23 PM
  #52792  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
$150/gallon!
Yikes, that $150 could buy 60 gallons of methanol

Besides, there are only a few people who appreciate nicely thought out details and well finshed mechanical devices.
Count me in as one of the few!
Old 08-28-2022, 01:41 PM
  #52793  
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Anodizing is pretty much a bathe and dip sequence,easy to toss a couple of parts in the basket. Materials fairly safe and inexpensive.
Again, cast parts do not often anodize well either.
The machined version should be fine, if the alloy is well chosen.
Plating is a lot more detail and labor intensive operation. More handling of the individual parts, plating current settings, anode size, shape and placement etc.
Besides, the materials used are very costly to purchase, often cost even more to dispose of.

Last edited by Jesse Open; 08-28-2022 at 01:45 PM.
Old 08-28-2022, 06:47 PM
  #52794  
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Default 125 on a super stearman

I have a used super sterman 90” wingspan and 5.10oz full of full amd smoke oil. I was wondering if the Saito 125 it came with swinging a 16x6 prop will have enough power to fly the bird My first Saito and 1st four stroke nitro. Any sterman flyers out there with experience of thrust knowelesfe of this engine ?

thanks

Old 08-28-2022, 07:03 PM
  #52795  
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Following up on above post… is there any ins[ection, re-build, clean-up maintains i should do before test running the motor? Have 20% heli fuel.
Old 08-28-2022, 07:24 PM
  #52796  
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"Chroming"
years ago, we had a Chroming/Plating shop here in my hometown. yeaa. I remember going there and asking the guy to chrome a set of handlebars for my dirt bike. I figured it would be a lot cheaper than buying new bars, but what does a 16y.o. kid know. $80 Bucks the guy told me. then he said "we won't do them anyway". well, I go home. told my older brother (5 years older). he said that shop would not chrome them because it was a money laundering place for the Mafia. he said they owned the Bowling Aly too. my brother also said "you know the guy that lives in the little trailer behind the Bowling Aly, he's the guy that always sets at the Bowling Aly's door all day". a few years later the city forced both to close.
just a tidbit of Vermont life history for you non Vermonters that may be interested LOL

Jim
Old 08-29-2022, 01:56 AM
  #52797  
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Welcome Fred, the 125 should fly it just fine. Personally I would at least pull the back plate and see for yourself what the rear bearing looks like. If it turns smoothly just run it and see if it's still as smooth after a 30 minute run. For a quicky inspection just pull the two carb retaining bolts and swing the carb out to either side.

Last edited by 1200SportsterRider; 08-29-2022 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 08-29-2022, 03:56 AM
  #52798  
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Originally Posted by thefastfred
I have a used super sterman 90” wingspan and 5.10oz full of full amd smoke oil. I was wondering if the Saito 125 it came with swinging a 16x6 prop will have enough power to fly the bird My first Saito and 1st four stroke nitro. Any sterman flyers out there with experience of thrust knowelesfe of this engine ?

thanks
90" wingspan makes that plane almost 1/4 scale (23%). Did you mean the plane weighs 5.10 kg? 11.25 pounds is VERY light for a 90" wingspan bipe. A Saito 125 may not get it off the ground. If it does get off the ground the engine would have to run at near full throttle to keep it in the air.

Can you weigh the plane with no fuel or smoke oil?

Last edited by Glowgeek; 08-29-2022 at 04:12 AM.
Old 08-29-2022, 04:14 AM
  #52799  
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Corrected - sorry about that.
72” upper and 69” lower. Was thinking of the smoothie as it looks bigger then that!

Weight dry - 6.8kg - 15lbs
weight fulled - 7.2 kg - 15lb-14oz
fulled with smoke oil - 7.6 - 16lb-11.7 oz

125 with:
-16x6 makes 12.1 lbs of thrust. So thrust to weight is .75. 12/16=.75. Fully fulled & smoked 12/16.73= .71
-15x8 makes 10.9 lbs of thrust. So thrust to weight is .71. 10.9/16 = .68

Have a RCS turbo muffler which should add some RPM….


.71 runs in the sport plane arena. Not high powered but seams like it should be fine. It was flown by others without the smoke.. calls for a 1.20 to 1.40 four stroke

Last edited by thefastfred; 08-29-2022 at 04:25 AM.
Old 08-29-2022, 04:20 AM
  #52800  
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Originally Posted by thefastfred
Corrected - sorry about that.
Weight dry - 6.8kg - 15lbs
weight fulled - 7.1 kg - 15lb-14oz

125 with:
-16x6 makes 12.1 lbs of thrust. So thrust to weight is .75. 12/16=.75
-15x8 makes 10.9 lbs of thrust. So thrust to weight is .71. 10.9/16 = .68

Have a RCS turbo muffler which should add some RPM….
Being the more aerobatic version of the PT-17 I would power it with a Saito FA180 or FA220. At minimum an FA150.

How well does it CG with the 125? If it has nose weight added I would definitely up the engine size.

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