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Old 07-12-2008, 04:34 PM
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Bill
If I have the correct person that repairs Saito Motor's? I have a Saito FA-120 with Air Bleed Carb. Straight pipe (Black) with pressure nipple. I believe this was made around 1984. If anyone can help, I would like a copy of original Manual or Instructions. Would appreciate any help. THANK YOU. DAN EMAIL< [email protected]
Old 07-12-2008, 07:10 PM
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Paul, with that 18x6 that engine should idle at 1,600 with no trouble, although you would not want to fly with it there, you talked to first class moron.
Old 07-13-2008, 06:57 AM
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Thanks Michael and Hobbsy. I'll try to watch out, morons tend to proliferate nowadays.
Old 07-13-2008, 09:03 PM
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It is a shame there is not better parts-support for Saito's in the US.

I cannot fly until replacement parts finally arrive in August (hopefully).

I need pushrods/sleeves for the 125 and I have spent 1 week searching everyday.
Old 07-13-2008, 09:22 PM
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bawls, I just bought a 125, wondering why you need parts, the 125 is a fairly new engine and from reading on here they last a long time. Just wondering for my own piece of mind. Thanks
Old 07-13-2008, 10:16 PM
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I crashed it and it took me a week to find it. Then I spent a week (and counting) looking for parts.
Old 07-14-2008, 04:39 AM
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Hello all!

Having some problems with my 1.20.. I was flying it in an Extra yesterday after just changed from 10% nitro to 20%, not really my ideal choice of fuel but I had no choice as the (only) LHS only had 20% Cool Power Heli-fuel in stock. I tried to get the 20% 4-stroke for it but out of stock... By the way the engine is mounted inverted.

1. Is it ok to run it on 20% Cool Power Heliblend? Believe it has 20% synthetic in there.

Obviously I had to change needle settings as I went up in nitro, but weird thing was that I had to lean the high-speed slightly for it not to burble...hmm...
Idling went up quite a lot with 20% but after a bit of adjusting on throttle trim it ran fine. Seems very tricky to get the settings right even with 10%, it runs well on the ground but rich in the air, especially on uplines. Doesn't want to go to full RPM on uplines, so I am thinking maybe the tank is too far from the carb.

2. Is about 3" too far from front of tank to the carb? (see pic)

Weird thing is that when I lean it slightly to get it to pull better on the uplines, it feels to me that it is too lean overall, and I am not getting a smoke-trail at all...

3. On 20% nitro and 20% oil should I expect to see a smoke-trail? Someone said that generally there is very little smoke on Saitos when running right, is this true? What I don't want to do is to lean it out too much...

Also the nipple on the carb for "fuel-intake" is pointing downwards at the moment (see pic), and I would like it to be pointing backwards for a more natural fuel- flow.

4. Is it possible to adjust this on the 1.20? I had a feel on it but it seems VERY tight. The manual doesn't show it to be adjustable so I don't know what to think even if it looks like it should be...


Basically, the engine seems too lean in some attitudes and too rich in some, and I am not really sure why. At the end of the session I had a dead-stick after a quite long down-line but luckily I could bring it down into high grass with no damage to the plane. The tank is a 360cc (12oz) by the way. Too big?

Any help would be much appreciated cause I really like the engine but at the moment it is giving me a bit of a head-ache...

Johan
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:21 AM
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ORIGINAL: Paul_BB


ORIGINAL: blw

Paul,

You low speed may be too rich.
Hi BLW,

Last saturday I solved my idling speed problem.
First I fixed a bigger 18x6 Master Airscrew prop but the idling speed kept being erratic.
I tried to lean my low speed but it worsen; I then opened half a turn the LE needle and Tadaaa I got a steady 2800 idling speed.
And spool up was also OK.
So it was too lean from the start. Anyway thank you because you told me to have a look at the LE needle.
Now I'll try with a Graupner 16x8 because the engine seems to struggle a bit.

By the way, a wise guy in my club told me that all glow engine over .120 needs an onboard glow driver for the idling speed to be acceptable.
What do you think about that ?

Thanks,
Paul
Paul, Guess I got that one wrong but it's good that you learned about tuning a Saito. A lot of people don't take the time to learn them. I have the same sort of nagger at my club. All he knows is how to tune an OS, so that is the way to tune all engines in his mind. Not long ago, I was struggling all day to stay polite when I was trying to tune a new engine as he was 'helping'.
Old 07-14-2008, 09:26 AM
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Hi,
I didn’t get to much response to my previous post…here it is again

I have a Saito 150 in the GP Super Stearman. The engine is mounted upside down. The needle valve in below the center line of the tank and I’m looking for some ideas to recertify the siphoning problem. Dropping the 24 oz tank will still not get it below the needle valve.
I was thinking about putting in a smaller think (16 oz) with the stopper on edge (De bro) and turning it upside down. (?) Even doing this it will be close but not below.
Is there any problem putting tank upside down with the big side up?
I found a fuel controller by Cline that regulates the flow (it only allows fuel flow only when there is pressure in the tank) but it is $60, there has to be a less expensive way to do it. (?)
I also found a fuel shut off valve, to turn off the fuel after flying. But, I’m not sure if the siphoning problem will effect the tuning and over all performance of the engine. (?)
Another thing I heard is to add several loops in the fuel line…again I don’t know if that will work. (?)
Does anyone have any answers or good ideas?
Thanks,
Shubova
[8D]
Old 07-14-2008, 09:33 AM
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ORIGINAL: Biggles2

Hi Chaps , Iv installed an FA100 in my Hangar 9 p47 , Fuel floods into the carb , gushes in , when i finally start the engine its ocsilatting at the top end , when the tank is half full it seems to smooth out , Iv lowered the tank and the problem is still there. any ideas you can put to me are well received , [&o]
Hi Biggles,
I was wondering about this same problem (fuel siphoning with an inverted engine) with my PacAero GeeBee Y and thought you might be interested in the answer I got from Jim at Pacific Aero. Here's his response to my same question. Hope it helps.

"Siphoning is possible, but it has not been a problem. Here are some things
to consider: When the airplane is sitting on the tailwheel, the tank is
lower and the center of the tank is closer to the level of the spray bar.
Fuel can not enter the carb when the throttle and trim are closed. Fuel can
not enter the engine when the intake valve is closed. If you run the fuel
line up higher than the top of the tank and then down to the carb, it can
not gravity feed, although it can still siphon. If you open the exhaust
valve any fuel that got into the engine will run out.

So siphoning is not a problem if you run the fuel line up, then down to the
carb, close the throttle when the engine is not running, make sure the
engine stops with the piston between compression strokes (it usually does)
and always give the engine a couple of hand flips (with glow off) before
trying to start it.

You want the largest diameter prop that will work, because of the big cowl.
We would start with an APC 17x6 on the 150.

Jim"
Old 07-14-2008, 09:58 AM
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Hi Subovia,

Check out my post to Biggles2 above this post. I think we all have the same problem and perhaps the suggestion I was given might help us all. Hope so. I haven't tried it yet.
Old 07-14-2008, 12:25 PM
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My wise guy is also an OS maniac.

Do you think the cooling holes cut off my cowl are enough for a Saito 180 ?
1st picture intake - 2nd picture exhaust
The surface ratio between the exhaust and the intake is around 2.5 ~ 3.
The same wise guy at my club told me this ratio ought to be greater or equal to 6.
In this case i'd rather throw away my cowl before it looks like Swiss cheese...



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Old 07-14-2008, 12:29 PM
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Hobbywarehouse.com says they have the parts in stock for my Saito 125.

We'll see.

At any rate, one might email them for stock availability when looking for hard-to-find Saito parts.
Old 07-14-2008, 12:30 PM
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Hello
Can anyone help Please?
I have a Saito FA-120 with Air Bleed Carb. Straight pipe (Black) with pressure nipple. I believe this was made around 1984. If anyone can help, I would like a copy of original Manual or Instructions. Would appreciate any help. THANK YOU. DAN EMAIL< [email protected]
Old 07-14-2008, 01:18 PM
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Paul,

You need for all the air entering the cowl to go between the fins and the upper cylinder/head area. You will have to add baffling to accomplish this.
Old 07-14-2008, 01:20 PM
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Lash,

If you read the Saito notes and the earlier parts of the Saito club thread, the late Mr. Robison explains how to adjust the airbleed carb on the early 120.
Bill Robison
Carb adjust – air bleed type

Your carb is an air bleed, but Saito doesn't use your granddaddy's OS type air bleed. It is fully adjustable; idle, mid range, and high speed.

Hobbsy pointed out the idle adjustment, the Phillips head screw beside the throttle lever. Set it as he said, with the screw midway across the hole to start.

The mid range adjustment is done by turning the bronze colored disc on the needle valve end, start with its index set to neutral. Note the black line on the disc and the cast mark on the carb body in the first picture.

The adjustment has to be done high speed, then mid range, then idle. Any other order you'll be chasing the adjustments forever.

HS is normal, go to full throttle and peak the engine, then richen it for 300-400 rpm drop. Go to half throttle and let the engine stabilize, then pinch the fuel hose. When it's right the rpm will rise a little, then fall. Immediate fall is too lean. Adjustment is by rotating the bronze disc. Turn the disc to raise its index mark above the mark on the body to go lean, or down to go rich.

When you have the high and mid range working fine trim the air bleed for best transition first, and best idle second.
Old 07-14-2008, 02:06 PM
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Silver,
What do you think about piggybacking a small tank underneath the larger one? Then run a line from the big tank to the smaller then from the smaller to the carb. I wonder if that would change the center of the tank to the smaller below?
Shubova
[8D]
Old 07-14-2008, 04:03 PM
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I think Jim Feldmann's answer to me was best. I doubt the second tank would help. See his remarks below.

"So siphoning is not a problem if you run the fuel line up, then down to the
carb, close the throttle when the engine is not running, make sure the
engine stops with the piston between compression strokes (it usually does)
and always give the engine a couple of hand flips (with glow off) before
trying to start it."
Old 07-14-2008, 04:49 PM
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Sorry, shows my inexperience because I never even thought of that. Good luck with the search.
Old 07-14-2008, 07:17 PM
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Thanks for the help!
Shubova
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:40 PM
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I have a satio 100 how do you take out the middle bearing out thanks for your help rc.dude
Old 07-14-2008, 08:26 PM
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there are two bearings in the engine - front and rear. i assume that you already know to remove the cam and piston cylinder first (leave the piston in the cylinder, just unhook the rod from the crank). pull the drive washer off, carefully tap out the crankshaft (pc of wood between it and the driving device), heat the case w/a heat gun (carefully -evenly around the bearing area) to about 250F, or safer is to set in an oven at 250F for 20 minutes. tap it against a stack of paper (this is softer than a block of wood). to reinstall, i put the bearings in the freezer for 20 minutes, to shrink them (believe it or not, it does help). i freeze the crank first, slide the room temp rear bearing on, then freeze it and the front bearing for a while, heat the engine case, slide everything together as needed.
i'd let a more experienced Saito guy chime in, but, basically that's what i do.
jon
Old 07-14-2008, 08:50 PM
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That's the way it is done. Sometimes getting the prop drive washer off is hard to do. You sometimes have to heat it up with the Monocote gun too.
Old 07-14-2008, 09:24 PM
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Well I received my Keleo exhaust for my 125. Do I break it in with stock exhaust or the Keleo? Thanks Guys.
Old 07-14-2008, 10:06 PM
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It makes little difference. The choice of mufflers is yours. Four strokes are not as sensitive to mufflers as are two strokes

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