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Old 05-15-2018, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy


Dan, is this a plane that you built, I like it and would like to build one.
Yes, but it's made from foam board and as such it is not suitable for ICE power.

https://store.flitetest.com/ft-simpl...eed-build-kit/


It does build fast though and the wing loading is 10 oz sq ft so it will make an excellent trainer or just a fun plane. The cintruction is perry durable, and foam board for replacment parts is $1 for a 20" x 30" sheet at Dollar Tree.


I had the Norwegian graphics done by Callie Graphics for $14
Old 05-15-2018, 04:09 AM
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Well Dave,
Seems I once heard you say either something works or it doesn’t.

The 220 Saito on Toms plane idles perfectly, no Iron Bay BandAid needed It works.

I had no intention of using the pump on the 220.
My 120 Dual Plug Pumper engine came with damaged. Intake I will be using the pump parts on that engine For $28.48 I can toss the Carb

Last edited by Jesse Open; 05-15-2018 at 04:11 AM.
Old 05-15-2018, 04:10 AM
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Here are some more videos. Did I mention that it can be built with flaps?



Old 05-15-2018, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy

It seems odd to me to that Saito recommends being careful to not block the vents and then makes a pressure system that blocks them,
It doesn't block the vent at all. On the contrary, it provide positive crankcase ventilation and is much more simple and reliable than an external regulator. (once you know how it works)
Old 05-15-2018, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Well Dave,
Seems I once heard you say either something works or it doesn’t.

The 220 Saito on Toms plane idles perfectly, no Iron Bay BandAid needed It works.

I had no intention of using the pump on the 220.
My 120 Dual Plug Pumper engine came with damaged. Intake I will be using the pump parts on that engine For $28.48 I can toss the Carb
I never said it needed a band aid to idle or run, but the Iron Bay was better than the Saito junk pump for the large carb option.
Old 05-15-2018, 06:34 AM
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Dan, for several,years I flew a Mud Duck and an Agri Duck made of the same stuff, there is no issue with a glow engine and I flew the Agri Duck with a Fox .74 Davis Diesel conversion. Actually when I first built the Mud Duck I put my Saito 1.50 on, that didn't work well much above idle, the elevator didn't have enough authority prevent climbing when you tried to go above about 4,500 rpm.
Old 05-15-2018, 06:36 AM
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Hey Dave, have you tried to delete your signature, save it, the add it back?
Old 05-15-2018, 06:39 AM
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Yes sir, I change it now and then.
Old 05-15-2018, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Dan, for several,years I flew a Mud Duck and an Agri Duck made of the same stuff, there is no issue with a glow engine and I flew the Agri Duck with a Fox .74 Davis Diesel conversion. Actually when I first built the Mud Duck I put my Saito 1.50 on, that didn't work well much above idle, the elevator didn't have enough authority prevent climbing when you tried to go above about 4,500 rpm.
Then, with some modification to the engine mount provisions, this would be a great knock about air frame for an FA-30-56.

It uses a "power pod" that houses the motor/RX etc and there would still be enough room for a small fuel tank.

Plans are available in PDF, but unless you want to pay about $30 for full size prints, they would be on THIRTY SIX 8" X 11 1/2" "tiles".

I was [lannong of get tong the plans in the future in order to build a "spare" airframe. If you wanted to split the cost of printing. we might be able to work something out.

20" x 30" white (non moisture resistant) 5 mm foam board is $1 each at Dollar Tree.

I think it takes about 5 sheets. The (white) non-MR sheet must be painted to prevent delamination of the paper, but it is also easier to get a bond than with the (brown) MR sheets that the kits are laze cut from.

https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/...f-3ad6e87e65f8

https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/...c-8829a18d01c8

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 05-15-2018 at 07:13 AM.
Old 05-15-2018, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I never said it needed a band aid to idle or run, but the Iron Bay was better than the Saito junk pump for the large carb option.
There's nothing wrong with the Saito pump and it is simpler and more reliable than any external regulator.

It is very easy to set up IF you have instructions. Page 10
https://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/SAI...oke_Manual.pdf

One merely sets the pimp at 2 3/4 turns out, start the engine, adjust HSN/LSN as usual, then refine the setting with the pump as per the instructions.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 05-15-2018 at 07:25 AM.
Old 05-15-2018, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I never said it needed a band aid to idle or run, but the Iron Bay was better than the Saito junk pump for the large carb option.

Oh? You said it ran “so much better with the Iron Bay (bandaid). ... especially at idle.

I took that to mean it didn’t run or idle well otherwise. Really surprised as the 2.20 Saito here runs very well. It is not the pumped version.

So, your 2.20 was the pumped version. When you were unable to make it run , the Iron Bay was your. fix?

I don’t see where the Saito pump will be any problem on the 1.20 Dual Plug, Pumped Saito

Just putting the finishing touches on the newest test stand. Will have to give it a run. Never found a need for one of those Iron Bay add-ons. Doubt I will.
Old 05-15-2018, 09:11 AM
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Ok, let me explain further, when I took that picture I had sat a 24 OZ Sullivan fuel tank on my battery box about 22" below the 2.20 to see how the Iron Bay would handle a fuel tank mounted on the CG of a Hangar 9 Cessna 182. I ordered the pump set up and large carb option after I had the engine, the large carb option was a late offering. They didn't actually make a pumped 2.20, the stuff was an after market add on. That should clear everything up, I hope. The Cline Regulator will work from the little .30 up to and including the 2.20. The Iron Bay is marginal,on the little .30 with 2,800 being the low idle. About 2,200 with the Cline.

Dan had better luck adjusting the Saito set up than I did. Maybe I didn't exercise enough patience.
Old 05-15-2018, 10:17 AM
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well guys I did a drill and tap test with my new drill and tap, I first drilled a pilot hole, the test turned out great, the treads were very clean, very nice and the nipple tightened up good, so I know it should come out better on the case with it made with better/stronger alloy, the case is mounted to the jig, all I need to do now is mount and level the jig to the drill/mill,, I do things slow, so one thing at a time, take a brake, it's just the way I have become in the last few years, any hoo it's 2:18 and I have to leave at 3:00 so I will try to get it mounted and leveled but I don't think it's going to happen by 3:00,,

later guys

Jim
Old 05-15-2018, 01:29 PM
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Try some thick grease on the tap to hold the chips


Edit:

Just putting the finishing touches on the new test stand. The FA 120 DP will get the maiden

Last edited by Jesse Open; 05-15-2018 at 03:44 PM.
Old 05-15-2018, 05:53 PM
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Try some thick grease on the tap to hold the chips
I will do that,
I did not get the jig mounted to the mill/drill, maybe tonight

Jim
Old 05-15-2018, 05:55 PM
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Just putting the finishing touches on the new test stand. The FA 120 DP will get the maiden
nice !!

Jim
Old 05-16-2018, 02:59 PM
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Question engine power

I have a Saito 1.50 that I placed a spark ignition on it. I plan to use strait alcohol with klotz lube. I plan to place it on a real light airplane. What kind of power do you think it will produce? Thanks John
Old 05-16-2018, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by captinjohn
I have a Saito 1.50 that I placed a spark ignition on it. I plan to use strait alcohol with klotz lube. I plan to place it on a real light airplane. What kind of power do you think it will produce? Thanks John
I have run my 1.5 with CH ignition on methanol with 10% nitro but not on straight methanol (FAI fuel). I've also run it on gasoline. I would estimate that you'll get about the same performance on FAI as I got on gasoline, which was about 10% fewer WOT RPM than 10% nitro. That's from memory; it was a lot of years ago.

Fact is the engine flew a Ace 4-120 bipe with plenty of power on all those fuels, with the same prop.

CR
EDIT: I forgot to ask you which Saito 1.50 you have. Mine is one of the early high compression engines.

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Old 05-16-2018, 09:03 PM
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check out this Saito you haven't seen before

Old 05-17-2018, 01:01 AM
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Jesse this aeroplane has my fa220 in it.
Boring as bat droppings jim,just kidding.I always hope saito will dip it's toes in the water and hook up two saito fa220's together in an inline config.When i ran my 220 in on the bench it made you stand back a bit sometimes.

Jesse i like the build quality of your engine test stand but prefer dave's one have you seen it? can't remember if he made it or bought it now but it is set out well and easy to move all in one go.Much better than my improvised soft pine one which lost it's grip on a saito fa115 on the second tank load,boy was that exciting.

ps for all the poor americanos here,still stuck with the old measuring system i was bought up on in schooldays,here's a pic of how easy it is for us southern rednecks now,read the bottom line on the tape and weep
Old 05-17-2018, 01:55 AM
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Wow! That plane looks like a load of excitement! Always liked the race planes of the Golden Age. The clean, agressive lines never grow old.
The 2.20 on my club mates plane is a real honker.It has a real good sound with it's new pipe too. We also have a 3.00 twin in the club that I have worked on. A very impressive engine. Looks like the days of Saito making up exciting new combinations are past.
I had a stand at one time that was very similar to Dave's (Maybe from the same fellow) but went back to the slotted solid block type. A bit heavier but very smooth operating Just one bolt to make a block move and more than solid enough to handle the 2.20 with a good reserve. I am making the base with a tank support and throttle system now. When complete it will be an all in one, self contained unit. IIRC, the one Dave uses is made by a fellow in GB.

Last edited by Jesse Open; 05-17-2018 at 02:20 AM.
Old 05-17-2018, 03:15 AM
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My test stand is a nearly 20 year old PSP that is mounted on a B&B Vibra-Loc system which is mounted on a 6" x 30" x .5" oak board which in turn is laminated between two others using 3 hour epoxy. The boards have stayed fuel proof for all these years. PSP mfr is owned by a lady whose name I forget. So far the PSP has stood the test of time and much use holding engines from an LA .10 to a SuperTigre 4500, I have PSP's back plate adapter for the twins, it has many holes for different engines.
Old 05-17-2018, 03:29 AM
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I just ran a new Saito .62-b for 70 minutes at 10 minute intervals starting a 4,000 with the throttle 1/4 open and then at 1,000 rpm intervals 10 minutes each through 9,000, then set needles, then full throttle test.

Engine===Saito .62-b latest version
Exhaust===stock
Fuel===Wildcat 10% 18% full synthetic
Prop===Graupner G Sonic 13 x 6
Plug===OS-f
Max rpm smooth and steady= 10,000
Idle, very smooth 1,820
Transition is quick, clean and smooth.
Max rpm with Turbo Header=10,220
Old 05-17-2018, 07:35 AM
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Thanks Dave

That’s It,”PSP”. Same one I had for a few years. I loaned my original sliding block stand to a fellow flier who moved away and took it with him. Too many projects and working 80 hour weeks at the time. I wound up with the store bought PSP.

I finally made another sliding block and guess what?
I loaned that one out too. Never saw it again. This one will not get the loan opportunity! Still have the drawing from the original version I made in 1972 and I know it is still in use.

It easily and firmly holds any beam mount from a .10 on up. One bolt to slide the keyed block and the steel dog clamp really supports the pocketed mounting lug well


Old 05-17-2018, 07:46 AM
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At first years ago I had a wood one, then a J-Tec, both junk, and then the PSP.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 05-19-2018 at 03:08 AM.

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