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Old 07-28-2009, 04:28 PM
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Although these are 4 strokers, the spark ignition for the Fg 20 and 36, does that fire every revolution? Looking at the Pictures the sensor is off crank position, I dont see how it would know one stroke from another?
Old 07-28-2009, 05:23 PM
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ORIGINAL: c550

I was wondering if there was anyone who has tried the Master Airscrew 3 blade 13X8 on a Saito .82? I would like to try a pair on a TF B-25, but I was hoping for some input before I buy a pair.

Thanks,

Dave

I run a 12x8 3-blade on one of my 82's and I'd say it's the perfect 3-blade prop for that engine/ plane combination. I initially chose that prop to give more ground clearance on my H-9 T-34 mentor and found it performs as well or better than a 13x6 2-blade.

I'm about to try a 12x6-3/ 82a on a 50 size P-40 to allow a little bit slower landing speed.
Old 07-28-2009, 06:58 PM
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ORIGINAL: flyingagin

Although these are 4 strokers, the spark ignition for the Fg 20 and 36, does that fire every revolution? Looking at the Pictures the sensor is off crank position, I dont see how it would know one stroke from another?
Yes, they fire every revolution and so do most late model cars

Doesn't hurt anything during the overlap portion of the cylcle

Old 07-28-2009, 07:10 PM
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ORIGINAL: w8ye

You are not correct

The way the carburator is made the low speed if set too lean will restrict the fuel flow at high speed resulting in your engine going lean on top end even if your HSN is out 8 turns


Thanks w8ye.

So the thing to do is set the HS needle, then lean the LS needle only so far as it takes to get a tolerable idle.

Sure is tricky business setting these Saitos up correctly. I never know how much running time the engine should have before it will be OK to try for a decent idle speed that doesn't vibrate the airframe apart.

Old 07-28-2009, 07:14 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

In this pic you can see an elongated ''cats eye'' slot, the LS needle is actually a sleeve that moves in and out over the slot varying how much of it is exposed to the intake airflow. If you set the LS needle with the HS set too rich you'll get the LS too lean trying to compensate for the over rich HS needle, That's why I set the LS needle with the HS needle at absolte peak.
Hobbsy,

Great photo, I see exactly what you are talking about.

When you say absolute peak on the HS needle, you are talking about peak rpm? Then after you have the LS how you like it you richen up a little on the HS correct?

Thanks
Old 07-28-2009, 07:19 PM
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ORIGINAL: lesliehowell

If anybody is having problems with the Saito FG-20 like I did there is a really cheap solution. Just go to this web site and buy the VRE spark plug. http://sparkplugs.morrisonandmarvin.com/ All of the problems with running and black soot coming out of the engine disapeared and now I am a happy Saito owner again. I only fly four stroke and like a lot of you guys I have a lot of them. I also fly a lot of multi engine aircraft and have found Saito to extreemly reliable.

Oh well, back to work.

Les
Les,

Which model plug did you use for the FG-20? I will be using that engine on my next plane.
Old 07-28-2009, 07:35 PM
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The VR-2

http://sparkplugs.morrisonandmarvin....x.cfm?menu=vr2
Old 07-28-2009, 07:38 PM
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L, in my case, absolute peak is highest obtainable rpm which is usually unsteady and wanders up and down a little so I richen down one click which is about 50 rpm. It will run rock steady there. Any time you see me post rpm data it will be about 50 rpm off the unsteady peak.

PS, you're correct about richening it down after setting the LS needle.
Old 07-28-2009, 07:46 PM
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ORIGINAL: leedees


ORIGINAL: lesliehowell

If anybody is having problems with the Saito FG-20 like I did there is a really cheap solution. Just go to this web site and buy the VRE spark plug. http://sparkplugs.morrisonandmarvin.com/ All of the problems with running and black soot coming out of the engine disapeared and now I am a happy Saito owner again. I only fly four stroke and like a lot of you guys I have a lot of them. I also fly a lot of multi engine aircraft and have found Saito to extreemly reliable.

Oh well, back to work.

Les
Les,

Which model plug did you use for the FG-20? I will be using that engine on my next plane.
If have a CH ignition on my FG-20 instead of the Saito ignition and the Rimfire VR-2 fits the plug cap perfectly

Old 07-28-2009, 08:06 PM
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Great Idea for Club Saito ... Got a 180 and a 220 myself ... but have been looking for 2 reasonably priced 72's for my twin Dash 8 ... after 15 years on the bench it's time to put some reliable power in it ... and I know of no better engine than saito 72's ...
Old 07-28-2009, 11:36 PM
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Thanks w8ye.
Old 07-28-2009, 11:53 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

L, in my case, absolute peak is highest obtainable rpm which is usually unsteady and wanders up and down a little so I richen down one click which is about 50 rpm. It will run rock steady there. Any time you see me post rpm data it will be about 50 rpm off the unsteady peak.

PS, you're correct about richening it down after setting the LS needle.

Hobbsy, I see that wandering of the rpm near peak, it confused me as I didn't expect to see that. In the .82 it would wander a couple hundred rpm.

After consulting with you guys I think I am going to retune all my Saitos and make sure I am running rich enough. I know my .56 runs great but it does get pretty amazing fuel economy, it might be too lean.

Attached a pic of the late .82, I like the [img][/img]Saito fuel filter, looks cool, works well.[img][/img]

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Old 07-29-2009, 07:31 AM
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That's a really neat installation
Old 07-29-2009, 09:46 AM
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ORIGINAL: leedees

After consulting with you guys I think I am going to retune all my Saitos and make sure I am running rich enough. I know my .56 runs great but it does get pretty amazing fuel economy, it might be too lean.
If your .56 is running okay, then it probably isn't lean. It will let you know when it's lean. The .56 doesn't smoke when you 'get it just right' like some 4 strokes. Smoke usually means too rich and that's the mistake most people make at first.
Old 07-29-2009, 09:53 AM
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ORIGINAL: Old Fart

That's a really neat installation
Thank you sir. The remote glow plug connector works well and is big benefit with the cowling on this plane.
Old 07-29-2009, 10:53 AM
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ORIGINAL: blw


ORIGINAL: leedees

After consulting with you guys I think I am going to retune all my Saitos and make sure I am running rich enough. I know my .56 runs great but it does get pretty amazing fuel economy, it might be too lean.
If your .56 is running okay, then it probably isn't lean. It will let you know when it's lean. The .56 doesn't smoke when you 'get it just right' like some 4 strokes. Smoke usually means too rich and that's the mistake most people make at first.
I can say there is very little smoke with my .56, only when increasing the throttle quickly. I run 30% nitro / 18% synthetic oil fuel as most advice says it runs cooler and it sure makes the throttle responsive.










Old 07-29-2009, 03:11 PM
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Sounds like it is set pretty good then from what you've said. I didn't touch my needle valves for a couple of years when the engine was being used. It just ran and ran.
Old 07-29-2009, 05:43 PM
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Are you aware of anyone having airborne failures of Graupner props on Saito 100's? I have had two 14/7's fail in the last copule of weeks on two diffrent airplanes, both in the air. they tack about 9,150 RPMs on the ground, so I am reasonablly sure they are not over revving in the air! In fact they sound just right!!

Thanks
L.
Old 07-29-2009, 06:03 PM
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Hello! I am new in the Saito scene so bear with me here. I have a FA-56 and I didn't think it was any good because it had no compression. I pulled the valve covers off and everything looked so I put them back on and stuck a glow onit and guess what. Runs like a brand new engine. Which it looks like too. I don't know anything about it except that is a very clean and beutiful engine with no compression. I have been a mechanic for thirty years and the first thing I look for in a engine is compression. Is this due to the Hemi-Head or what.
Old 07-29-2009, 06:11 PM
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Does the compression come up once it has been run for a while? Some of my older engines, don't have much compression if they have been sitting in the cupboard for ages. It seems once you either get oil or some heat into them the compression comes up.

In my experience the 4 strokes don't have anywhere near the compression of the 2 strokes.
Old 07-29-2009, 08:09 PM
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ORIGINAL: James c harrell

Hello! I am new in the Saito scene so bear with me here. I have a FA-56 and I didn't think it was any good because it had no compression. I pulled the valve covers off and everything looked so I put them back on and stuck a glow onit and guess what. Runs like a brand new engine. Which it looks like too. I don't know anything about it except that is a very clean and beutiful engine with no compression. I have been a mechanic for thirty years and the first thing I look for in a engine is compression. Is this due to the Hemi-Head or what.
This engine most likely has a sticking valve

Old 07-29-2009, 08:44 PM
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You are so smart! Just did some research on it. I thought it was a valve and pulled it down to see. The intake valve will leak if closed slowly, ie turning by hand. If turned quickly it doesn't leak therefor it gets compression when turned by the starter. I took the valve out and the seat looks good, valve isn't bent, but if you push it closed you can feel a little resistance when you try to open it then it opens. Put it back together and ran a tank through it runs like a top but I am a little worried about it sticking while in flight or something. Do you think it might free it self up or could this cause me problems in the long run. By the way when I took it down I could see where it had some gum or half dried up fuel on the piston. Course I cleaned it. Advice welcome!
Old 07-29-2009, 08:47 PM
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Put some oil around it and work it some

Run it some and it will free up and be OK.

I've seen this be the valve guide area, the rocker arm pivot, and the camfollower guide
Old 07-29-2009, 09:22 PM
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That is exactly what I am going to do . This little sweetheart has one heck of a job to do. Going on my Storch. Used to fly on a AX-55. Way to fast. I think more torque and less speed will be great! Thanx for all the help. Will let you know how she does.
Old 07-29-2009, 09:22 PM
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Saito FA-40a:

Horizon website on this engine states:

Key Features
10 X 4 prop at 10,500 rpm

and then, lower it states:

Benchmark Prop:11x5 APC @ 10,600


Which is truer?

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