I need help, I'm looking to buy a new engine for a Pt-60 trainer by
great planes (requires a 60 engine). My options are a O.S. for about
CDN$190.00 (http://www.gpmd.com/cgi-bin/wgpinf100p?&I=OSMG0561) or a
super tiger for about CDN$100.00
(http://www.supertigre.com/engines/supg0161.html), unfortanitly I'm new
to engines and the guys in the store seem to lead me nowhere but in to
confusion (good way to get me to get the O.S.) any ways was hoping
someone here could tell me if they have heard of super tiger and what
its record is for breaking in, starting (hot and cold) and its general
running and maybe its reliability and its longevity in comparison to
other engines and specifically to the O.S.

The Super Tigre is a very good engine. You will enjoy it. I have several.

For user friendly, you would not pass OS. If you can get help from your club then Super Tiger is a good one to learn.

Super Tiger 90 is a good engine for any 60 size plane.

Fitting a 90 2 stroke to a 60 sized trainer doesn't seem like a good idea for a beginner.

Another engine to consider might be the OS 65LA. According to one writer, it's actually more powerful than the 61FX:

http://www.modelairplanenews.com/cli...60engines1.asp

One advantage of the OS is that you get the option of a rear needle valve. Some people don't care about this, but I like the extra inch or two of distance that it puts between me and the knife at the front of the plane doing 12k.

Matthew

The PT60 would fly with a Magnum 52 four stroke but a 70 would be better. I would really consider a 4 stroke. More user friendly and the torque and sound can not be beat. I have seen the 52 for as little as 110.

For a 60 size trainer- do you know how to break in an engine? Do you know someone who flies and knows how to make a glow engine run well? If so the super tiger 60 or 90 engines are excellent values and will give you many years of reliable service. But if you are not into engine tuning then get an OS. They cost more but they are simpler to break in and adjust than the tigers. The 65la has an air bleed carb so the low end needle adjusts the air, not the fuel. but the ones I have seen run well. The the os 61 fx has a better carb than the 65la but costs more.

I am a super tiger fanatic. I have learned to break in and tune the tigers but they are not cookbook engines. however when they are properly broken in with the right glow plug they are the best engine value out there for the money. Either the 61 or the 90 will fly your trainer very well.

Also- I would advise getting a 6 channel radio for your trainer, with decent programming features. the 4 channel radios are cheaper but they don't have many features that you will want after you get past the trainer.

Ed

....forget the overpriced, overweight, and underpowered OS .61FX....they are dogs.

For the price of the OS, you can buy the S.T. 61, a S.T. .40, and a few gallons of fuel.

The ringed Super Tiger engines will still be running when the OS has been junked and
forgotten.....

....this from an "OS Man"....I have dozens of ringed OS engines.

FBD.

There are not enough, OS engines are easy to use, short break-in and last a seasons as photo here and then use more money at new spareparts..

Buy Super Tigre!

Jens Eirik

Or you could get the ASP,SC or Magnum xls 52 twostroke for about 55$. That engine is way more powerful and lighter than the 61 fx ( oh yes I have had them both) and cheap as dirt. Actually I got rid of the 61 fx and kept the ASP 52

My first trainer had a S-61 in it. The instructor set the needles and it needed no further adjustment for the duration of training. Put the supertigre in you plane, either the ringed or ABC engine, they are both very good. These engines are some of the best deals going in the .61 class.
I own several OS .61's, and they are nice. But I fly the ST's more and expect they will last longer than OS.

As you can probably tell, seeme, many people here have agendas that beyond helping you. These little engines can inspire a great deal of brand loyalty/zealotry, and the information you're seeking is being tainted by a bit of that. It would be nice if everyone could just give you their opinions without the zeal, but a few people can't do that.

The just of what everyone is saying is that you're not going to go wrong with either one. My advice is a little less straight forward than anything you'll find above. I think you should contact the club you'll be flying with. They'll put you in touch with the instructors they have. Ask them for some advice--they'll be able to give you their opinion on your questions. They're the guys that will be helping you learn to use your engine (and everything else), so why not ask them?

Also think about the money involved. If you're on a limited budget, that's a fairly large difference in price. If you were to buy the OS, is there something else you'd have to skimp on?

I concur with Edd. With repect to your admitted engine novitiate status, be smart. Apply KISS. Buy the O.S. and avoid frustration. If you want an engine virtually guaranteed bolt in, flick 'n fly friendliness, the O.S. .61FX offering is the way to go and definitely worth paying for in this instance. Alternatively, specifically for a PT-60, have a look at the O.S. .65LA. Great value, sufficient power for what you want to do with a PT, reliable, and very user friendly.

As for the ST, do an RCU search on the endless reports of ST tuning woes. 'Nuff said. If you go the ST route, there's a better than even chance it'll all end up in tears, and expensive 'tears' if you deadstick and write off that shiny new PT-60 in an unnecessary forced landing! We all like to save, but it's also important to triage when an apparent saving mght be a false economy.

FTR I have both brand engines in a .61. A current O.S. 61FX and an Italian Super Tigre S61K ring, which is the immediate predecessor to the current G61 ring. That ST .61 differs from the current ringed ver only (TMK) in that it has a two piece crankcase and bolt on rather than bolt through muffler attachment. Oh, and it has the old ST muffler design, which although noisier, also offers it a power edge and weight advantage over the contempory design. Surprisingly, I haven't had any problems with this particular ST. It runs like a Swiss watch. I say surprisingly, because it's the exception to the ST norm IME. Don't know whether it's this particular random engine sample, or ST's .61's in general, as ST has fitted a MAG carb with sensibly sized venturi to this .61....plus a barrel which doesn't stick and transition slot which works.....for a surprising and inarguably pleasant change.

yes, as MikeL said, just disregard what everyone here said and just ask your instructor, we`re not here to help you but to push our own favourite brand even though most of us own several different brands

Sigrun, just what is so great about the 61 fx? (I have owned one) It is heavy, not very powerful and is likely to peel its nickel liner sooner or later, did I mention it is also overly expensive?? Why in gods name buy the 61 fx as long as the 91 fx exists ( I do have one of these today) at almost the same weight and size. There just is no reason for OS to still offer the weak 61 fx. Oh I forgot, all my other brands is also just flick and fly by the way

Yup, that's what I said. Thanks for attempting to distort that which is solid advice. There's more to getting meaningful advice than to take what everyone says at face value. And yes, as his instructor will likely be helping him, it's worthwhile to consult with the instructor. Nothing says that the instructor can't be just as much of a brand-loyal zealot as some people here. If that's the case, it may well be worth going along to get along when it comes to that first engine purchase.

When the OS gets tired, and loses compression, you will need one of these:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCJ61&P=Z

When the S.T gets tired and loses compression, you will need one of these:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFY65&P=Z

....

Hi Asmund

Do some research on tuning problems with the .91FX as posted on RCU. O.S. have allegedly since remedied the bubbles in the fuel line tuning issue successfully. Maybe???? Some reckon not. Just what a novice needs. <NOT> Secondly, he doesn't need the power of a .91FX in the model he intends the engine for, and excess power in that degree will actually be a disadvantage in the role he quite apparently intends it to serve. Thirdly he's already mentioned budgetary constraint. Why would he want to spend more money on an ovesize engine he neither wants nor requires. And there are other disadvantage such as fuel burn and (fuel) payload.

As to the .61FX, I don't believe I used the word "great" at all.

What I will say, is that despite the decrying of its mediocrity, investigate and you'll find that any valid criticism is predominently focussed upon it's spec power for weight, more frequently than not based upon what they read in a SINGLE review than derived from personal experience. In reality, the .61FX simply isn't a bad engine, or even an unreliable one. It's just not an outstanding power performer in the .61 capacity class like the other FX series were in their respective .32, 40, & 46 classes. But then neither are the TT PRO, ST S, G or most other sport .61's. Face it, the .61 class today is a favourite out of vogue whipping boy and a victim of the overbored .46 case.

But what the .61FX does represent is a brand recognisable, easily obtainable, mainstream brand which instills novice user confidence in the purchase, as well as being a solid, reliable, user friendly, easy tuning, robust, relatively low stressed performer which specs 1.9PS, more than its predecessor the SF, the TT PRO, both same capacity STs, and more than the .55AX or .50SX. So what's so BAD about it? ...or are you just one of the many sheep?

Did yours actually peel its liner? Mine haven't. Does it perform as spec? Mine do. Is it reliable, easy tuner, good throttling etc, etc. If yes, and my answer is in the affirmative, then what's your actually your real problem with O.S.'s 61FX? You pay the money, you make an informed choice.

I'm no O.S. fanboy, nor is my support of the FX misplaced user pride. But the .61FX is a solid enough engine in class which cops an completely undeserved bagging. Pricepoint? Well no disagreement with you there. It should be lower to be price competitive. But for a nOOb who doesn't want issues, the premium asked for the reliability is something anyone with a modicum of discerning intellect will value. I say don't complicate it for the novice. OK TT's PRO is cheaper etc, but KISS. The O.S. .61FX is an engine with which he simply can't go wrong and won't have a bad experience, and to anyone starting out, that's worth double its asking $$$. Those that can't comprehend that probably also know the price of everything, but the value of nothing.

User friendliness is what this guy wants, not problems. Do a quick search and see which brand rates max hits here on RCU for endless tuning problems. Of course, they're all imagined or the conequence of user ineptitude according to the fanboy chorus. But we've all heard that tired old song before, and it belongs in the same romantic fantasy setting as any other 50 year old tune from a Rogers and Hart/Hammerstein musical.[sm=cry_smile.gif]

As I said, I think the 65LA is probably a wiser alernative for the original inquirer to consider for his purpose, but the won't go astray with fitment of a .61FX either. I couldn't recommend G61's with that same confidence.

I can vouch for the LA .65, it has as much power as most any .60 sized engine and is a no brainer to break in and set up.

That is ridiculous FBD!!! Did i read that right? Cylinder replacement for the O.S .61 is $92.00, while the cylinder replacement for the Tower hobbies .75 is only $32.00? I see O.S. game now...Its like paying for the complete package in a german auto, and only getting the reliability of a honda at most. To the origional poster i say go supertigre. If you get the O.S you wont feel like it was worth the extra $90. I started out even worse with a tower hobbies .46 and even considering the different complaints about it on the boards i now run it inverted on a H9 aresti with no trouble.

....yep....that's "Tower's low price" [X(]

Lookit' this....

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXVH35&P=Z

Well boys.....back to the original question on the post! Will throw in my two cents worth. I have an OS 61FX and its a good engine and simple to tune but not alot of power. I have an Italian Super Tiger 75 and its a great running engine and can only assume the newer versions are at least close. At any rate the ST 75 would run rings around the OS61. Also have a Super Tiger G90 and once broken in, is a great engine with an overload of power. To throw another engine in the mix I would suggest a Tower 75. Friend of mine just bought one and it was an absolute breeze to break-in, tune, and has almost identical power to the G90. Would say that Super Tiger and Tower are good buys for the money.

I just bolted a Magnum 91 four stroke on a PT60.
It still needed a ton of weight on the nose to balance.
Have not had a chance to fly it yet but I expect it to work great.

I don't know where my original response to the OP's post got to, but such is the internet.

I'm with you regarding a .91 four-stroke for the PT-60. But I'm partial to the putt-putters of late (four-strokes).

The funny thing about all of these opinions (mine included) is that they all make good points. I'm sure that any of the engines mentioned/suggested will work just fine and will provide lots of enjoyable flight time for anyone that uses them.

The only down side to the OS .65 LA is that it is a bit sensitive to lubrication in the fuel. Not many folks want to be bothered adding castor oil to their fuel, especially when just starting out. This engine needs more oil than the other engines mentioned because it utilizes bushings (plain bearings) instead of ball bearings to support the crankshaft. If you don't mind buying and then adding an extra four to six ounces of oil (preferably castor oil) to the fuel, then the OS.65LA is an excellent choice. You get the pleasant handling and reliability of an OS engine and you save a bit of money when compared to the more expensive OS.61FX, which is a good engine if you aren't power hungry or too weight conscious. If Bax, Tower's technical representative, says not to worry about adding extra oil to the fuel for the OS.65LA, then I will accept that as "the word" and will not mention it again. Hobbsy's recommendation carries a lot of weight with me too.

I would only recommend the Super Tigre engines if your instructor is an "engine man" as we know them in the hobby. Once broken-in and set up properly, they are excellent engines and are among the longest lasting engines in production. However, if your "instructor" is a newb himself, less than four years in the hobby, he probably doesn't know how to run the engine properly and you will do more fiddling than flying. Mind you, like all rules, there are exceptions and your instructor may well be one of them. Do you know if he is regarded as an engine man?

Actually, I've wondered why no one has suggested the Tower .61 or .75 yet. Excellent warranty, lots of power, good reputation. I see no reason not to mention it. Oh, and it is attractively priced too. Not to mention that these engines will burn any over the counter fuel around these days.

Good luck, regardless what you decide. Come back and tell us later what you did and how you're making out. Good luck and Happy New Year.


Ed Cregger

Sigrun. I`m with you on most everyting you wrote above. He doesn`t need the power of the 91 fx but it is also possible to throttle back a little. Anyway my first recommandation was a light, powerful and cheap engine. Cheap can be good in the beginning to reduce cost of a possible fatal crash. Around here we run alot of ASP, SC and Magnums and have no problems with them. And there actually IS a chanse he could go wrong by the 61 fx, or can you absolutely guarantee that it will not peel its nikel?? This is why I mentioned the 91 fx, almost the same weight and identical mounting space, it has a ring and steel sleeve (no peeling, guaranteed) If the power is not needed just reduse the power on the stick. I had the first bach of 91`s with bad remote needles which gave me alot of deadsticks, but I DO actually do quite some research and as far as I can tell the problems with the 91 fx has been taken care of, mine too:-)