kerwin50

Mine was the OS 40 fp and every time I came across 1 and tried to use it the same thing it would not hold a needle setting.
I have had the fox 40,45 61, and 74 and all I can say is they are the most powerful engines I have ever owned.
Back in the mid 90's I sold most of my stuff and in 2002 I started flying again. The only reason I didn't by fox was the price The best engine I have ever owned is the TT pro 46 GREAT ENGINE

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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I am not saying that you are wrong, WhiteRook. All we have are our own experiences to relate to others and perhaps some experiences of other folks that are close to us.

I know that Fox engines can be expected to really deliver the power. So, if I get one that isn't, I know to send it back and have the Duke wave his magic wand over mine. Many other engine brands are out there, but I wouldn't send them back unless I knew there was a defect. With the Fox engines (in the past), I knew that they would receive special attention if they were down a few hundred rpm, or that idle/transition could be made better. I expected more of Fox - not less.


Ed Cregger

dieselgasman

NEED BLOODY HELP!!!!
Worst engine i have is the MDS .48. Got a 10cc tank, runs for quarter tank, cuts out, runs quarter tank,cuts out, runs quarter tank, cuts out and then will run to empty. (great engine eh[:@])
Suppose, it is saving me fuel, and i get a lot of practice at dead stick landings.

Got it sorted out to be a carby problem. Can ANYBODY please tell me what carby will fit in place of the STUPID C2 that is supposed to be better than the first carby. Bloody great engine when its running, it would be nice if it stayed running.
NEED REPLACEMENT CARBY!!!!! PLEASE. (has a .55 inch O.D on carby base)

dieselgasman

Mind you, the MDS.18 i have will pull the foreskin off a dead dog.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Defective carbs do not run for a quarter tank and then cause the engine to quit.

Is the engine overheated when it quits? This could point to too lean a mixture, loose backplate or carb mount (air leak), too much nitro, too hot of a glow plug, larger prop than normal and adjusting for peak power (too lean), etc.

I would suspect that your model's fuel tank system is defective in some way. Any solid contact between the fuel tank and the model can cause fuel foaming (actually bubbling). This will cause the tuner to adjust the needles improperly to compensate for the bubbles in the fuel. Once airborne, the model's resonant frequency changes (not touching the Earth any longer) and the fuel foaming or bubbling, may become worse, or disappear altogether. When the latter happens, the previously adjusted mixture needles are now at incorrect settings. Many times the mixture will become leaner than it should be. Consequently, the engine will over heat and quit.

The best solution is to surround your fuel tank with loosely packed foam rubber and do not let any part of the fuel tank touch the model, including the fuel tank neck passing through the firewall. Friends, this is the most idiotic step backwards in modeling technology that I have ever seen in my half a century in this hobby. That and returning to flat bottomed airfoiled wings for trainers. Both are just plain stupid.


Ed Cregger

Telemaster Sales UK

Hi Dieselgas Man

Dave Davis here in the Old Country, it's quarter past six in the morning, must be evening-time in Oz. I worked in Australia in the late Seventies, mostly for the ANR in the bush of South Australia. Fond memories of opening the batting for the railway against teams of shearers on Sunday afternoons!

Regarding your MDS there are two solutions to your problem.

1. Fit a carburettor from a Super Tigre, this was a popular modification when the MDS was first imported here about twenty years ago, (how time flies!)

2. Fit a 13.9mm carburettor from Just Engines which are specifically made for the MDS. There are three types avaiable The JEN "TN" and "Series 3" and the JEN "TN2." They all cost £17.50 plus carriage.

I've never owned an MDS, thank God! I've seen too many repetitions of your experience with them but I used to own an old OS 40 twin ball race job with a worn carby. Bought a JEN replacement and it ran perfectly. Lent the engine to my pal but when he died his girlfriend's nephews hoovered up every thing that wasn't screwed to the floor and so it went out of my life.

I've never actually seen an MDS running on a Super Tigre carb but that was the popular mod with the 40.

I would recommend Just Engines unreservedly to anybody, I've always had excellent service from them and they send stuff all over the world. One bloke even wrote to them from Southern Bulgaria claiming he'd ordered an engine on a Tuesday and it arrived on the Friday!

Talking of Southern Bulgaria I rode my Triumph through there on my way to Galipolli last year for Anzac Day, spending some of my redundancy money. Took me four and a half days to cover 4000kms. Met a young fellah from Sidney called Mick Hurst and a journalist called Anne Turner from Queensland who's now moved to Kalgoorlie with a promotion. We still keep in touch via email.

Just Engines web address is :www.justengines.co.uk. If you want a nice gentle Telemaster to put your MDS in I can supply one! Please visit my website on :www.telemastersalesuk.co.uk.

Happy landings

DD

Telemaster Sales UK

What's the problem with flat bottomed wing sections on trainers Ed?

I've taught lots of people to fly on vintage/old timer models with flat bottomed wing sections. I even learned on a Junior 60, a popular design over here which dates from 1946 and features an under-cambered wing section.

Agreed these do not fly well in a wind and modern semi-symmetrical or fully symmetrical ARTFs do cope with the wind very well, but will a beginner learn anything if his model is being blown all over the sky, especially the older guys with slower reactions?

I like your American Telemasters as trainers, but feel that I should declare an interest!

Happy Landings

Dave Davis

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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This would be a truly great discussion, should we allow it to develop. How about starting a new thread about, "Flat bottomed airfoiled versus symmetrical airfoiled trainers"?


Ed Cregger

Telemaster Sales UK

Ok Ed, my computer skills are worse than my flying ability! If you want to start a new thread, I'll join in.

Must jump into the shower and get off to work delivering new Jaguar cars. It's a tough job etc.....

DD

dieselgasman

Firstly, thank you VERY much to Dave for ACTUALLY helping me, after i get through this i will be visiting BOTH websites. Secondly, Ed, yeh you have been flying planes since before i was born, this does not mean i'm an idiot. I have EVERYTHING wrapped in foam(all loose), the engine has nothing loose, leaking, cracked, broken, fartin, burpin etc. The engine is tighter than a......snare drum.
The fuel i use has nothing to do with it. Tried 80/20, 5%, 7.5%, 10% and 15% nitro. Changed more plugs than i have had baked dinners(thats a fair few BTW) And the fuel cannot foam, I add one(1) drop of amourall to every 2.5litres of fuel i mix. And, finally, straight after the engine has run, i can put my hand on the entire case for at last 5 seconds, this tells me that it aint lean.
Now the only thing left is the carby. I have also placed fuel tubing to stop any leaking air, if any, from leaning the mixture out. All "O" rings are in perfect order and have already been replaced to make sure it was not them.
Dont think i have left out anything. Please feel free to let me know if i have missed something. Since i have told you everything i know, might as well tell you too, i have red undies on.
Thanks.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Well, lets see - maybe someone cast a voodoo spell on your engine?

Me, I don't believe in magic, just cause and effect. There is nothing in a carburetor (such as a timer) that will wait four or five seconds, minutes, or whatever, before affecting the job that it does.

Now if that offends you, well, I did the best that I could do with the information that I had available. Nowhere did I treat you as though you were an idiot.

When we old timers answer questions on the forums, we know from experience that there are thousands of other folks with the same problem as yourself that are looking for an answer, just like you. So, we cover other eventualities that you may have already tried. It's not all about you. Remove that chip from your shoulder and you'll have more friends.


Ed Cregger

dieselgasman

Ahhhhh, Thanks

gunfighterII

Maybe I missed something here, but why would you put armorall in your fuel?

Dan Vincent

Ed, back in 1951 a freind let me fly his control line Testors trainer with McCoy .09. It had a flat bottom airfoil.

Within minutes I had it down and could fly level. Very quickly I wished it had a symetrical airfoil so I could do something else but fly level.

I vowed never to build or fly another flat bottom CL model.

RC is a little different as a lot of guys like to fly a slow-mover and just relax watching it thermal around. They also seem to be getting larger so old eyes can still see them.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

A few drops of Armor All would help lessen the foaming action of glow fuel. It would also shorten glow plug life. It is best to wrap the tank properly, etc.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Hi, Dan.

You are basically stating my philosophy in R/C.

Yes, there are instances where a flat bottom airfoiled wing trainer is handy - for special cases (like me these days).

One of the best trainers of all time, for people with normal vision and reaction times, is the Bridi RCM Trainer (60 size) powered by a good .40 sized engine. It is NOT self righting, but it is slow enough with the .40 to give one time to think. It is also controllable well down into the stall, whereas many flat bottomed airfoil trainer models are not.

The RCM Trainer is also flyable on much windier days by a student pilot, especially with a slightly forward balance point and lots of control throw.


Ed Cregger

Sport_Pilot

I really don't have any trouble flying a Senior Kadet on windy days. Although it does get bounced around, the large control surfaces and sturdy landing gear make it useable in some very windy weather! IMO its not just the flat bottom wing as much as the wing loading.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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No, but beginners might and do have trouble flying floaters on windy days. Being experienced, you know that if the model is slow to come around, all you have to do is wait and eventually it will do as you are commanding. A beginner does not have the experience and therefore, the confidence to KNOW that the model will respond to his/her commands.

Being cleaner aerodynamically, the Trainer 60 model is less perturbed by gusts and will react quicker to control inputs than the wonderful flying Kadet Senior.

By the way, I do agree with your last statement.

One of the reasons that the typical flat bottomed wing equipped trainer is a poor windy weather choice is because the control surfaces are way too small, which has nothing to do with the airfoil shape.


Ed Cregger

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

A former student pilot of mine had one of the most cantankerous engines I've ever ran into. His was the OS .40FP also. That one had me pulling my hair out for weeks. Never did get it to finish a full tank of fuel with any regularity. I tried every trick I knew and a few tricks that others suggested.

I was told that it wasn't the original version. There was something different about the piston/liner, but I can't remember what was different about it.


Ed Cregger

Telemaster Sales UK

Hi Ed,

Just finished driving the Jags. Nearly put my "growler" (the badge in the radiator grill) onto some old boy's lap when he pulled out in front of me from a minor road, but they fit good brakes to a Jaguar!

I liked your reasoned argument about the carburettor on the MDS Ed. These engines were/are made in Russia but were they imported into the USA in any quantity? They were very popular in England mainly because they were cheap. Dieselgasman's experience with them is by no means unique, occasionally you'd get a good one but mostly they were frustratingly unreliable, cutting out just when they felt like it despite running perfectly on the ground. Thank God I never bought one, saw too much grief experienced by those who had. Strange though it may seem, the problems were usually cured by fitting an aftermarket carburettor, the Super Tigre used to be a favourite with the early 40s and the firm, "Just Engines" of Cumbria in the extreme north of England had a range of aftermarket carburettors which were intended as replacements for original carbs which had worn out. They had some made especially for the unique MDS spigot. Problem cured.

I think the fault lay in faulty design and/or manufacturing of the original carburettor, allowing air leaks and a weak mixture to develop thus stopping the engine. They were otherwise sound.

The only other engine which was remotely as bad as an MDS was the Chinese Leo, but few of these were sold.

If you must have a two-stroke, you will not go wrong with an OS or Irvine, though I must admit that the modern offerings from China and Taiwan seem to be fine.

Two sentences on flat bottomed wing sections. If the tyro gets into trouble and the model is heading for the ground, if the model has a flat bottomed section, the beginner can get out of trouble given enough height, by simply cutting the throttle and letting go of the sticks. Under these circumstances, the model will climb, which is much better than the alternative, giving the beginner sufficient time to sort himself out. A symmetrical wing section will probably keep on heading for the ground!

The most valuable commodity when starting to learn to fly is "stick time." If you've got a three channel vintage model it will just cruise about giving the pupil plenty of flying time and building his confidence. I know that this is "Guided Free Flight" and not "Radio Control" but this is what most older novices need. Once he can take off and land with an Old Timer, he can go on to four channel models, where, I will agree, the semi or fully symmetrical wing section gives some advantages.

Happy Landings

Dave Davis

DD

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

To me, my goal as an instructor is to teach the student how to fly, not to entertain the student pilot with "easy to fly" models. I want to bring them up to speed as quickly as possible, because I know that many of them are just itching to get their hands on the controls of a warbird or high performance aircraft. If they are not willing to sweat a bit while learning, they are wasting my time.

With that in mind, I give student pilots a bit of ground school. The first thing we tackle are things such as the physics of flight. The second thing we tackle is the downwind turn brain fart that most people have difficulty shaking.

If a student pilot wants to play and doesn't really want to seriously learn how to fly, they should ask for another instructor. I'm there to fly my own models, and, with my health failing, my time is at a premium.

I enjoy the serious and focused side of R/C flying, having been a former pattern competitor. I will be the first to admit that there are much better people that are more suited to being a flying buddy/instructor, if that is the style that a student pilot seeks.

So, with all of that said, R/C assist free flight models do not make good trainers for folks that really want to learn how to fly. Using my style of trainer, my student pilots can fly just about any style of model with competence, when through with my training program.

I hate being a beginner at anything and I want to gain a level of competency as quickly as possible. I look for student pilots with those same feelings.


Ed Cregger

Telemaster Sales UK

I see your point Ed, but I'm not that moved by the "control" aspect of R/C flying, I'm always amazed that they fly at all! Neither is my flying skill up to your standard but I still enjoy the hobby. I leave competition to the work place, I'm a trained Careers Adviser who won a nationally acknowledged award for my work in 2006. I'm only driving the cars because my post was the victim of government cut-backs and financial reallocation last year, sound familiar? I still find that learners benefit from a little gentle bimbling about when they first start off, many do not have the confidence or co-ordination to make progress rapidly, especially greybeards returning to the hobby in retirement.

If you go to my club's website, www.smfcinfo.org.uk. you will see that one of our members is a man called Kevin Hill. Kevin found flying difficult at first but after a couple of flights in calm weather on a vintage model he began to get the hang of things, then went on to more challenging models and his flying rapidly improved and now he is one of the best flyers in the club better than me.

A couple of years ago we had a heavy fall of snow during the winter and Kevin was stuck behind a line of cars which had slithered to a halt trying to get up a local hill called the Long Mynd. The road up this hill is only one lane wide with passing bays, its not always gritted and there are steep drops down the side of the hill. Kevin went to the car at the front of the queue and asked the driver's permission to drive the car up the hill. Having got the first car up to the top, Kev walked back to the second and repeated the process until he got to his own vehicle. He was famous locally for a few days. The reason Kev was able to do this was that he was an experienced amateur rally driver.

If a man with such excellent co-ordination struggles to fly R/C at first, what hope is there for us lesser mortals?

I also try to teach beginners something of the physics of flight and would be interested in learning what you tell them about the "downwind turn brain fart" as I've found that most of them have difficulty with this manoevre until their co-ordination improves. I find that the most common fault with beginners is that they over-control and hold an input for longer than necessary but these defects are eradicated with practise.

Happy Landings Ed, sorry to hear about your failing health, I suppose it'll come to me one day if the motorcycles don't take me first!

It's good that there's enough room within aeromodelling for both types of instructor.

Dave Davis

dieselgasman

Gunfighter, the amourall stops the fuel foaming. I only put in a TINY amount. One drop per 2.5litres.
Does the trick and my glow plugs dont go pop, use too much, like 5 drops and up, you WILL have glow problems.
DAVE, sent an e-mail to just engines, just waiting for reply. Again, thanks.
And to boot, your a bike rider too. You ARE a bloody legend. Was riding a TL1000R on road and a CBR600r in comp for many years. CBR was fun and nimble, but by christ did that TL have some grunt. One day i come home and the minister for war and finance(wife) tells me i'm going to be a daddy. Had one more race, best one i had, finished 4th, she was sh[X(] tting brick watching me, so both bikes gone. Now i'm driving more, i'm glad the bikes are gone.
Anyway, enough about bikes, I back into planes again, had a 7 year break.
Started flying when i was 14, i'm now 34. First plane was a precedent hi-boy. In my opinion, the best plane ever. Got good building skills, with out it being too hard, and a FANTASTIC plane in the air, could handle ANY weather. Flew it for YEARS and finally had to retire it because of fuel rot. I got my moneys worth. Now have a LO-BOY and a FUN-FLY and a T240.
I love precedent models. Can't get them in OZ anymore.
Be back later, the bos is calling.
Cheers

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Tele Sales UK, fortunately, there is room for many styles of instructors in our wonderful hobby.

I used to be known as one of the more gentle instructors, because I didn't get excited and yell at my student pilots. I still don't yell, but I have less and less student pilots. I wonder why? <G>

Truthfully, the modern computer simulator makes teaching student pilots so much easier. In fact, it is not uncommon to see a new student pilot show up at the field and need only a couple of flights on their trainer in order to receive certification to solo.


Ed Cregger

Telemaster Sales UK

Hi Diesel Gas Man

So you learned on a Precedent Hi-Boy twenty years ago? These were very popular in England in the Eighties as the fuselage was made from lite-ply which slotted together and the foam wing allowed the model to be built more rapidly than one with a built-up wing. However, it resulted in a very heavy model and that tapered wing endowed it with limited wing area. Added to all of this the semi-symmetrical wing section was very thin and as a consequence the model flew like a guided missile when powered by a 40, the ususal choice. In my opinion loads of people learned to fly R/C despite the Hi-Boy not because of it! I'm not surprised to learn that you were only 14 when you learned how to fly, you need a young man's reactions to be able to manage one of those things.

The man who is now our Club Chairman, John Holland, a famously cautious man where spending money is concerned, turned up at our flying field for the first time with two of those things. Several of us took him up on a buddy box but they were too fast for him so I gave him a flight on my vintage Junior 60. A few weeks later he lost control of the Hi-Boy and it crashed into a Volvo estate car (station wagon) in the car park punching a hole into the off-side rear wing, and those Volvos are strong cars! Go to smfcinfo.org.uk to see us all.

If someone started a link for the worst trainer I'd definitely vote for the Hi-Boy, that and the MFA Super Yamamoto, a Cessna look-a-like with a fibreglass fuselage. Far too fast and heavy.

My favourite trainer outside of vintage/antique/old timer models is the Irvine Tutor. This is a Chinese-made ARTF commissioned by the Irvine Model Engine Company. It has the usual format, high wing, tricycle undercarriage and four channels, but it's semi-symmetrical wing section gives it the ability to fly well in a wind without ballooning all over the place. The rather smaller UnoWot from the Chris Foss stabel is also excellent but you have to build those and they are expensive.

Youngsters in my experience learn to fly in no time, older novices take a longer to get the hang of it.

So you've got a T240? I've got one too. For the uninitiated this is an 8 foot or 2.4 metre wingspan high-wing model with struts which looks a bit like an Auster, lite ply fuselage. Mine has a Thunder Tiger 91 fourstroke for power. I use it as a follow-on model for novices to get the hang of ailerons before they move on to something more lively. I'm not sure that it's produced anymore. The parent company ceased production once the ARTFs became widely available but brought back the T240 and the large Stampe Biplane after a couple of years. I'm not sure that they're still available which is why I set up Telemaster Sales UK, to give British fliers the chance to fly a nice big slow model as the T240 and Senior Telemaster have similar flying qualities. The parent company for Precedent is Balsacraft International. You could try googling them to see what the current situation is.

Ah well, must jump in the shower, (it's not true what they say about us Poms!) and get off driving the Jags. I'll tell you an amusing story about my trip to Galipoli tomorrow.

Happy Landings

DD