Carosel43

Rev - The Gsonic will run up to about 7200 as i have one and tried it on my 400. the gsonic props run really fast so i think it will be ok. just watch your top end rpm as the max recommended rpm for the prop is about 6000 (theres a formula in the instruction sheet) which is crazy low. They can also be a little noisy, but in the racer im sure it will be just fine!

Roger - I always do maidens with no cowl for the exact reasons to mentioned so i am suprised you had the issue. i think over heating is still the most likely candidate, perhaps it went lean with a lower tank position? i must say in my experience with my own engine you have to be a little bit of a heat management expert. too much prop/toolean/too slow and it overheats. to much prop at low revs, or flying for a little while at low throttle and its too cold. but of a nightmare either way. what prop were you using?

BJ - the esm corsair is really nice and apparently flys very well. As with all esm models keep the weight forward! as for your issues with size, its not a proper model until you can lie down under it

tim750r

Unless there is internal engine component failure , that only leaves fuel starvation then, doesn't it?

Very sad...

A clubmates FW190 dead-sticked on a go around after a forced landing attempt due to power loss on his Moki 215 radial. Still haven't got to the bottom of that one.

Carosel43

if a cylinder dropped out the other 4 would have been working hard and that could have caused an overheat situation

BJ64

Caro - I reckon you could hide a boatload of illegal immigrants under this thing.

Tim - sounds like you guys had the same :censored:-up-fairy at your field as HNB did [X(]... and Moki's are considered the Beez Kneez (?) (double-play intended )

BJ

PS - I'm still walking around my loungeroom in awe of this rather large WarBird parked on the floor. Man, that's one sexy beast of an airframe...

tim750r

The Moki is wonderful when it goes, but its been trouble from the start - although he didn't have it from new

Was one of those 'Oh, its only done a few flights' deals - yeah? Thats cos it never ran properly I bet!

Anyway, how well does the ESM cowl fit over the 400?

Carosel43

ahh yes, the old 'bench run only' nugget. i have fallen foul of that a few times. My enya 120 needed new bearings, conrod, ring and liner...its great now though and theres a laser 150 on ebay at the moment thats 'as new, bench run only' and yet it can be seen that the exhaust has been wire brushed clean and the engine its at least7 years old. not really as new then is it?

Anyway, digression asside, BJ did you get the retracts with your corsair?

BJ64

Tim - dunno yet. That was a bit of a punt when I bought it. We measured a good 10" on the cowl diameter, so the ASP 400 should fit. If it doesn't, there's a brand spankin new never-been-started-yet DLE-55 gasser already mounted in it.

Caro - yes, it has retracts. ESM ones, with Robart air. From what I've been reading around the traps, the Sierra retracts sound like they are king of the mountain - but at least I have LG. Retracable tail-wheel is there too.

Anything I should be aware of?

BJ

Heli-NuBee

Hey Carosel43 (Jon) I was using an XOAR 20x10 prop. The engine was running at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle most of the time during the flight. It was only at full throttle at take-off for a few seconds and then throttled back while we were trimming the plane. When the engine lost power, we throttled back to idle and then back up. The engine ran a bit better but not much and was way down on power. The engine did not respond on landing to save the stall.

Heli-NuBee (AKA Roger the radial rabbit)

Carosel43

BJ the esm gear should be fine in there. They are big and strong but lack some of the sierra detail and refinement.sierra are brilliant but they also cost a packet!

Roger, if you were low on rpm its possible you fell off a cliff on CHT. I know this goes against what I said earlier about overheating but its possible the heads cooled off and 2 cylinders went down. Throttling back (kicking in the glow)may have relit one but not the other. The cool temps would also explain the very poor throttle response.

I had the exact same issues with mine on the 21x8. unless I kept the revs up and kept moving it would cool off and give up. the issue has gone away now im using the 20x8 as im using a bit more rpm and this seems to keep it going. I have only ever from a 20x10 master airscrew and cant say I had the problem with that prop either so I could be off the mark.

Long story short, its very hard to tell what the problem is as the symptoms of overheating and overcooling are (on my engine anyway) quite similar. My test for lean running is a simple loopas it will die noticeably in aloop if a little lean. the test for overcooling isto coax it back up to full power and just belt it around for a bit, if she comes back to life (you may have to throttle back once or twice to relight any dead pots) then that's your issue. Honestly, thisis not a simple fly aboutengine, its got tobeworked tokeep it happy(in my experience anyway)In the short term, perhaps you can find a flying test bench for it like you plan to do with the laser 300. That's why mine is in the pacer. I wanted to test the engine out before I flew it in a scale model, but as its never been reliable enough to leave the flying test benches I have installed it in I have never used it in anything else.

tim750r

Did you get to the 'landing' site fairly quickly? If so, was the engine hot, cold or about what you would have expected. Its a big chunk of metal with a good degree of heat inertia, so that might give some clue as to whether it was rich or lean. If it lost power while at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle, then unless it was grossly rich, it shouldn't have cooled sufficiently to drop a cylinder (what was the ambient like?). Also, I thought the microsens thing was supposed to intelligently take care of keeping the fire alight?

Carosel43

Tim, if the compression is uneaven on the pots then some cylinders will not fire as well as the others so at certain power settings they are being driven by the other cylinders and tend to run rich. this all cools them enough for them to go out. But you are right in that the sensing glow driver should have been able to keep up, unless a plug is faulty? and while I have never put a thermometer on my engine its always pretty hot when I come down. I mean I wouldn't want to touch any part of it for more than a second

BJ64

I can visualize the engine stalling if it's dropping a pot or two at low revs and you give it just a tad too much of a handful of throttle even if the glow driver has kicked in - the sort of situation you might find yourself in when you're committed to land on final, the engine starts spluttering and suddenly you're down on power 5ft off the deck... you try to recover by opening the throttle to get some power back, but go just that bit too far and give it a bellyfull of air/fuel and she stalls on you...

BJ

Heli-NuBee

All I can say is what I described - we did quite a bit of ground running and checking the engine before the first flight and everything seemed great - when the engine went to low power, some recovery by resetting the throttle but very little - we had good altitude when power was reduced so there was a long approach - there was no power available for landing the engine did not respond to the throttle - I did not get to check the engine right away but a short time later all cylinders seemed luke warm. I can tell you that there is considerable difference in compression between the cylinders and it has been that way from the start.

I just got a call from my good friend - he says that the repairs are almost complete on the wing - I will need to cover and paint when he is done.

Best wishes and good safe flying.

Heli-NuBee (AKA Roger the radial rabbit)

jaav

Hi Rev.. me from the upside down land or is you guys the wrong way around?

I was using a MA 22x8 on my Gillmore with the 400.

Carosel43

I guess its a case of checking all the usual stuff. make sure the glow is charged, check each plug, valve clearances, dirt in the carb etc and start again. and as has been mentioned before I have wildly different compressions on my cylinders

kgo068

Hi everybody, I am a new user ,let me introduce myself . Kym form Port Lincoln ,South Australia.
I wish to start by expressing my absolute gratitude to all you guys from which I have learnt so much info on my 400r .I have over the last 12months read this forum ,back to front .....50 times!! - thank you! I just have to tell my experiences. Please bare my long rant

I for over 30 years have been invloved in anything that uses a radio control unit! 18 months ago I bought an ESM 85" Corsair, It is a nice unit (for a chinese arf,just throw out all hardware for quality stuff) - what a pity to put a noisy 2stroke in it. So hobby king supplied me with a 400r!! My first radial .
I knew what I was getting into , its not an OS, nor the quality of SAITO..........It has driven me nuts at times...but ILOVEIT!!!

Here's two photos

Heli-NuBee

Hey kgo068, welcome, jump right in, the water is fine. The Corsair looks great. I'm looking forward to reading about your experience with the 400.

Best wishes and good safe flying.

Heli-NuBee (AKA Roger the radial rabbit)

kgo068

I ran this motor from day one with the sullivan 5 cyl glo ignighter ( HK) - I tried many battery combos , the best I found is a 5 cell ,sub c,NiMi pack @ 2400mah ( I not risk anymore 3 flights)....I have a 5000mah too .This is on 5 OSf type plugs .-they are power hungry!

I realised very soon - this corsair with the air retracts ,2 air tanks( 1 tank ????) ,Keleo ring exaust ,10 servos ,battery packs, extra reinforcement- this is gonna be a 14.5 kg (31pounds) brick!
The ASP is not a powerhouse! ..........but I keep going . A 22" dia prop looks so small!

I tested so many mates props ...I settled on a JXF ( xaor?) 21x10 ..I cannot recall rpms maybe 6300. But to be sure I had some power ,I was determined to use 20% nitro( 18% klotz 198) rest methanol.
When I started ASP for the first time , it only ran on 4 cyl. A quick pull apart revealed 1 intake rod completly out of its tappet seat to the side just bouncing around! no damage - YES 2 of the 3 lobe cams are different to the other- I just set in the middle best I can- it works.

Just prior to install into Corsair ,I read here about the crank bolt loose proplems , mine was o....k ,but locktite has fixed its problems now.

Afterrun oils .....I run 20% nitro! thats very acidic between runs! What to do? I think ive got it nailed! - 30 mls of air tool oil ( GW brand from supacheap auto in aust.) It is thin .IT ISDESIGNEDTOABSORBMOISTURE . I put in the drain hole at end of day ,block it and rotate the fuse at different angles for couple minutes then stand on nose overnight .Then sit as normal on its stand,and rotate the prop around when i walk past it from time to time.
When I get to the field I unplug ,dont touch it, I fy with the drain open ..you know I think there is still some ARun oil still splashing in there at end of 2nd flight ! Im sure there is!
Any way I like photos too! I'll be back to continue the maiden flights

kgo068

Thanks  heaps Heli nubee, you all speak my language. I m no expert at anything I fly, I enjoy to fly cos its my personel challenge....I have dug a few holes in the past  with my helis  ( or planes)..but not for a long time . This is good. I must be learning!!

BJ64

Welcome aboard, Kym!

And a fellow Ozzie too - albeit a bit of a drive from Melbourne LoL.

Boy, did you turn up on this thread just at the right time - I picked up an ESM 85" Corsair last night, and I was so hoping I could get my ASP 400 to fit into it. Looks like I can!

BJ

kgo068

Hi BJ ,yeah ,I hoped you would see my story ! I have been reading your interest with the ESM.. perhaps you are the reason I got off my butt,and joined here,cos I just had to say something! I've looked at everybodys ideas ,NOW I'm keen to share mine. First of all ,have you read the ESM corsair thread on here? I could repeat everthing I've typed there as well.It has been incredible the info I got here;www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9758940/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm , ...just go there!!
I just read and looked at what others have done ,copied some ideas,but mostly my own. I just love to see others ideas ,photos tell a thousand words . Don't hack into your Corsair yet! Go have a look
The 400r fits easy ...the way I did it at least.. If I can give one idea ..ditch the tube that ESM want you too bolt your motor to.. its stupid !
I will have to take my cowl off & get some real closeups for you ( just keep eye out in few days )

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Cheers Kym! Welcome to the fray.

Your Corsair looks the part alright with that big nasty FS400 up front!

How about some video?

Reverend

My Feedback: (3)

Welcome Kym!

Great looking Corsair. I have just one question: How much Air is actually coming out of that cowl? The ratio in to out schould be 1:3.

Rev

kgo068

Hi Rev & Kmot, nice to meet you two guys.. VIDEO!! [:@]no one in my club can even take a photo! I will have to seriously look into this though.
If there is one thing that I really hate... is a beautiful scale model ww1 or ww2 ,that looks just superb.. and then ,there it is! A 2 STROKE with a spark plug & cap out the bottom ! ..and the noise. ( even if I do have a Sparrowhawk with a MT62cc,with no muffler) No offense to anyone of course.
Like I said before ,I am determined to make this Corsair fly on the 400. Some guys on RCU have Saito fg57 twins,a saito 450 r3. They are more than I wanted to spend.( my allowance-wife now too) so I have an ASP 400.
Cooling in the Corsair- it does get a little warm & have been tempted to do some cutting- when I decide on the best prop for my setup ,I hope to be able to throttle back somewhat. But yes cooling it better is my next project. Like my scale heli ,I try to run on the rich side in an attempt to take some heat out,I wont go below 18% oil- I may go back to 20%. Klotz 198 is a low viscosity heli oil,its good but will not tolerate too leaner setting.
Tommorrow I will bore the hell out of everyone and continue with the first flights of my heavy corsair. Some more photos of installation too.
I really must get a video though........

Reverend

My Feedback: (3)

Kym,

Great to meet you too!

Its not always a problem of getting lots of air out of the cowl, a good solution may be to just let less air in. I would block the cowl with some (black) ply and only let the air passing over the cylinders through. After all, all the air that passes the cylinders further than 3mm away is useless for cooling. Just a thought.

Rev