BJ64

Still looks pretty shiny to me, ~Tom~

BJ

BJ64

Well.... whatever I did during my rebuild, I must have done right

Fired her up again to run another small tank of fuel through it - started first pop, within 2 seconds on the electric starter.

Happy

BJ

Carosel43

BJ that's great news. I have my spares ordered, only 50p each! so I ordered 6! I was too cheap to order any more

Also tom is there not some kind of lacquer you can apply to prevent it going off? the other alternative would be clear anodising but that would give a satin type finish. either way, still looks tasty! how is the flybaby coming along?

kgo068

Hi guys, I have just been playing around with that thrust calc. thanks. Do you all think that my 400 is down on thrust compared to your own engines? ,especially on a 20x8prop. I know how different it is between brands.What do you think?
Today at the field ,was 15c very still, I was just content with flying my GP Ugly Stik! I have to let my heart slow after the Corsair! Hope I did'nt bore everbody with my long winded story!
Oh yes...have a video cam organised

kgo068

Here is our club website if anybodys interested .

http://plmac.info/

We are going into winter down here , our paddock is green!  and lots of sheep & lambs ( they keep out the way)

Carosel43

You are getting much better performance than I am. My engine gives me about 7300 rpm on a menz 20x8 but props do vary a lot so rpm is not everything. given that the corsair is a bit porky I would definitely use that 21x8 you mentioned as its giving you the best performance.

I in fact tried the same 21x8 menz I had on the radial (@6600rpm) on my laser 360v and it came up to a very healthy 7400. That's a big chunk of power and the engine was running very very well. I think it might end up in my sea fury at this rate

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Coating a polish job with something that can later chip off is a no-no.

I have actually been able to start work on the Fly Baby again. Slow progress, but at least progress nonetheless.

BJ64

Very pretty, Tom

BJ

Heli-NuBee

I attended the Annual West Coast Mini Fest four day Giant Scale Memorial Day weekend event yesterday and it was awesome. Over two hundred pilots and 500 aircraft. There were quite a few jets and some fantastic 3D demos but I did not see many radials, one Saito 325 and a few Moki 250s but no ASP 400s. Here is a picture of a fantastic B-29 that flew in the event.

Best wishes and good safe flying.

Heli-NuBee (AKA Roger the radial rabbit)

CH Ignitions

My Feedback: (11)

Gents,

Just I want to let you know that soon I will have a 5 cylinder CDI ignition available for 5 cylinder and 7 cylinders.
I tested a ASP 400 and runs great on it. I have a "crude video" with the prototype.
Now is a matter of perfecting the kit and the box for it...Square or round...Boxes are one of my bigest pain...in you know were...LOL
Is a magnet ring with 6 magnets and one sensor, one unit.
On 7 cylinder I had a Evo 77 and it run OK, It was the petrol version. But I do not like the fuel delivery system at idle is not consistent. so the stabile idle is 1300 RPM I will like to get it down to 700-900.
Still working on this one.

Thanks
Adrian

SrTelemaster150

Adrian, are these your own modules, & if so do you have your own 3-cylinder modules yet?

My 450R3D is waiting patiantly for on of your 3-cylinder modules.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Would like to see the video.

nilsreinert123

I might buy one ignition for my ASP 400 and try to run it on gas ,to give the 400 a last chance !

CH Ignitions

My Feedback: (11)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psD5SI1kI2I[/youtube]







ASP 400R5 running on Gasoline and CDI.
Here is the first prototype that has been developed.We developed 3 new products in 8 days. 5 Cyl ,7 Cyl and uneven twins.
It was a development marathon,12-14 hours a day with no days off. Many thanks to Liang and Tom from Rcxel that together we made this happen.
I was able to see the Rcxel productionfacility that isclose to state of the art, experienced people that work and take prideof what they do.
The radial systems where developed to be used by Saito, ASP and EVOLUTION as OEM.
For retail will be available just trough CH No Price or ETA available yet as other details need to be decided.
Thanks
Adrian

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Thanks for uploading!

BJ64

Hmmm... you guys are skeerin me a bit here...

I would have thought that the ASP 400 would have had oodles of power to fly the ESM 85" Corsair.

Is it perhaps not got enough grunt to fulfil this purpose?

The Corsair I bought already has a DLE 55 mounted in it - all I basically need to do is install the flap and wing servos and push-pull rudder (elevator has already been converted over to push rod), and I'm ready to fly.

I bought the F4U specifically for my ASP.

Should I perhaps keep it as-is and run the DLE 55, and wait for a Top Flight FW 190 to become available down here in Oz?

Then again, I think the AUW of the Foke is about the same as the Corsair...

Any advice?

BJ

kgo068

Hi BJ ,hope I've not put you off! I feel that I put extra weight in mine . I know from the ESM corsair posts, it can be low as 26lbs not using retracts,but the wire stock ones .I put one extra air tank in...one just looked too small. Not that puts in too much extra weight. The Sulli glo driver. Can you weigh your corsair with the dle ,giving a rough idea of take of weight? If possible?Would be interesting. I still think it will fly ok with the 400. Just gotta concentrate. hard!

Reverend.. what make is that Gilmore Wedall Williams ,that you just posted a picture of? 2 of them were purshased 2nd hand by 2 members of our club ,on a recent trip to the Golden Era Races in Adelaide . One has zenoah 62 ,the other a zdz 80! .. I am pee'd off . I wanted one! These have fiberglass fuse's, reproductions,I think..

By converting a 400 to gasoline,does the carby have to be changed? and what power gains are there or is just for reliability?

BJ64

Bugger about missing out on the Gilmore, mate. That's a pretty handsome lookin plane

Dunno about the carby, but I'm pretty sure that SrTele runs some of his 'gasser spark' setups on Nitro + Methanol (for power retention + maybe even 5-10% more power over standard petrol), but just a lot less lube oil (hence, grime).

I'm still running-in my ASP 400 on the test-bench - only done about 1/3 gallon of fuel through it so far. I'm just wrapped that I've managed to pull it all down and rebuild it with a fresh set of brand-new bearings and that dreaded pair of new cam reduction gears. With the generous help of all the guys on this Thread, of course.

I am soooo stoked that I can prime it and hit it with the Align electric starter and is springs into life after a second or two on the starter - first time, every time

I've still go a lot to learn... but I'm getting there. Albeit rather slowly...

BJ

kgo068

My 400 has not done alot of work yet. I only opened up to check & tighten the crank bolt. I have been very close on continuing to pull it down and replace the bearings ,just from what I've read here.
I did once turn my engine over and felt a crunch!! a sticky cam follower? I dont know but seems fine still this was before I started using AR Oils.

BJ64

You do know that the crank bolt is left-hand thread, yah?... just in case you want to yank the back-end off and check it.

If you want my opinion, it's probably worth taking the nose-cone off and check if it's got some lube up there too... or if it's like so many others lately - bone dry.

I really hope for your sake that the 'crunch' wasn't it chipping a tooth on the cam reduction gears. That's basically what mine did due to a dead-dry front end, I reckon.

It could also have been a pushrod jumping out due to a shockingly poor valve clearance setting, or just plain crap attention to detail during assembly.

I don't want to put you off, but you will learn an absolute heap about how these things work - particularly this one - if you venture out and pull it down.

I didn't totally strip mine - didn't take the head right down to having the valves and retainer springs out etc. Just heads off - number them and witness-mark/texta the various bits and pieces you take off to make sure that each component goes back to exactly where it came off. And make sure you keep your pushrods and giude-tubes paired-up. Pay particular attention to the 'cam followers' (tappets) - you may not be aware that they're there, but you'll soon find out when the odd one falls out during the dismantling process. Something I didn't take enough notice of, then I suddenly had a heap of tappets sitting on the bench, none of which I knew came from where.

You'll find it easiest if you do one cylinder at the time - after you remove the inlet manifold from the rear of the engine. You'll need to undo each inlet pipe from the head first. Don't bugger-up/lose the green gasket thingies, and mark the inlet manifold/inlet tube assembly so that you can put it back on in the exact same way.

One you've got that off, then you can take each head off. One at the time. Rocker cover. Then head bolts + rocker-arm assembly (in one piece). Pushrods (one is longer than the other so can't mix that pair up), then pushrod tubes (again, one is longer than the other). Take a breath, then fish the tappets for that cylinder out. MAKE SURE you know which tappet goes with which pushrod - all 10 tappets are the identical, so if they all fall out on the bench together, you won't know which tappet goes with which pushrod (like happened to me). This may seem innocuous at first, but you'll see when you examine each tappet (and pushrod for that matter), they all wear a little differently. If you can match each set 100% when you're pulling it apart/assembling it again, you'll have a much easier time adjusting the valve clearances and have them stay more or less where they are after you run it in a couple more times. If you don't, you may find that a badly missmatched tappet/pushrod/rocker-socket are worn so differently then when you put it all back together that your valve clearances change a lot through the next couple of running-in cycles as the non-matched worn bits bed themselves in again. Ask me how I know rolleyes:

Grab some polystyrene packaging etc. to carefully poke each set of rods, tubes and tappets into so that everything is exactly how you took it off.

Once you've gotten this far, you're about ready to split the nose-cone off from the main (crank-case) wafer. Be aware that there's a locating pin that is super-snug - getting the nose cone off can be a bit of a struggle. And also be aware that there's a clear 'plastic' gasket between the inlet manifold and crank-case, and the nose-cone and crankcase. As stated, the nose-cone isn't all that easy to separate from the main bearing plate/crank-case... so if you're thinking of driving a wedge in/around that join, you'll damage the gasket. It's not the end of the world if you do, but try to look after both gaskets if you can.

And finally ... *whew!* ... once you've got the nose-cone off, you can have a decent look at the 'front end' - the cam and cam reduction gears.

Don't be surprised to find that whole area devoid of lube - mine was totally bone-dry to the point of not even leaving an oil-film on my finger (and probably the reason my cam timing gears decided to throw 3 teeth).

This is something I never would have given a thought to for a ~$800 engine. Zero 'quality contol' and attention to detail IMHO.

But it is what it is.

No-one (including me) expects that they have to more or less strip a brand new engine down just to make sure someone remembered to lube critical parts.

While it may be a fair old PITA to have to do it, it's cheap insurance to do so - and there ain't no real other way to find out...

BJ

SrTelemaster150

Actually BJ the CDI/glow fuel conversions usually make about 5% more power than the glow ignition versions.

The advantage of CDI W/glow fuel over petrol can be as much as 25%

Ive seen Prop/RPM #s that have the ASP FS400R5 making about 4.5 HP on glow ignition.

Given that 4.5 HP baseline, I would expect a CDI conversion aggressively tuned W/15% nitro/methanol to make about 4.75 HP while a petrol conversion would max out @ about 3.8 HP.

BJ64

Sorry - I should have been a bit more specific.

I meant Glow/Nitro going to CDI/Nitro being in the the 5-10% power increase mark from what I've been reading from you around the traps.

If I read your last post correctly, going from CDI/Petrol to CDI/Nitro can be as much as a 25% increase in power? WoW! That's a fair old punt in the pants.

Does that involve a straight swap in fuel only, or do you need to change compression ratio's. pistons, rings, valve/ignition timing etc. too along the way?

BJ

Reverend

My Feedback: (3)

Hi,

thats the ECOMRC (=ESM) Wedell Williams Type 44 Racer. Not to be confused with the Black Horse Gilmore. Two totally different planes. The ECOM one has the Gear in the proper position (fuse, not wing) and is completely built up.

It is this plane: http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items...LLW-88AAF.html

Rev

SrTelemaster150

No that's only a standard CDI/GF conversion.

Look around & if you can find spec's for Saito's gas FG versions that have not had an increase in displcement over the GI engines they were based on, there's @ least a 15% drop in HP.

That's exactly why they increased the displacement on their 150 based multi-cylinder 300 twin & 450 triple when they went to gas. They bolted 180 pots on those engines while keeping the 150 stroke to keep CR down in the realm of gas compatibility. W/the FG57 version of the 50cc FA300T there was a 14% increase in displacement to maitain power output. The FG84 vesion of the 75cc FA450R3D only got a 12% increase in displacement & they claim a slight power increase over the FA450R3D, but I'm a bit supicious of that. I wonder what kind of "gas" they used for the tests? It will be interesting to see "real world" results when the FG84 has been "on the streets" for a while.

The FG 36 is rated @ 3.0 HP while the GI version FA220 is 3.5 HP. That's a 17% drop in HP. I can make almost 3 .5 HP W/my high compression, spark ignition, induction modified, FA180HC CDI/BBC on 15% Cool Power glow fuel.

On 30% O'Donnell Speed Blend it made 4 HP!

My experiments W/the FA180 yielded incremental HP gains. My output HP readings were computed using this calculator. http://personal.osi.hu/fuzesisz/strc_eng/index.htm

It has shown to be fairly close to Saito factory HP spec's so it seems relibible enough. Besides, even if there is some error it can still be used for comparative RPM/HP % gains.

GI to CDI W/15% nitro, 2.81 to 2.98 HP, a 6% increase. (7900 to 8050 RPM W/18 X 8 prop)

Increasing CR from 9.6:1 to 12.8:1. 2.98 to 3.1 HP another 4% gain, (8050 to 8200 RPM W/18 X 8 prop) 10% total gain over GI.

Going from the 10mm FA180 carb to the Big Bore optional 220 carb on a ported intake manifold really woke things up.
3.1 to 3.44 HP another 10% on top of the acumulative gains of CDI & higher CR, (8200 to 8450 RPM W/18 X 8 prop) a total improvenment of 22% over GI.

Compare that to the 2.4 HP of the FG30 & you get a whopping 42% advantage for CDI/glow fuel over a similar displacement gas engine. Bear in mind that 12.8:1 CR would be next to impossible to run on pump gas so unless you want to go spend $10 a gallon for 110 octane race gas, if you can get it near your home, you are stuck. I doubt that the engiene would live W/the extra heat anyway, so let's just leave the gas version as is.

When I tipped a bottle of 30% nitro O'Donnell Speed Blend fuel into then tank, things got crazy.

The added nitro boosted output W/the 18 X 8 prop a full 400 RPM to 8850 RPM flashing to 9000.

Now we are making 3.95 HP! Granted I don't think I would want to run the engine @ WOT for long bursts W/that much power output, but it certainly would be nice for some impressive vertical performance in my 16# PT-19. That's near the 1.5 ratio for unlimited vertical. (1.4:1)

The beauty of all that is that the fuel consumpsion W/the higher nitro content was still less than W/15% nitro on GI.

You might be able to increase CR in the ASP FS400R5 by varying the head shims, so you are looking to gain @ least 5% on a straight conversion boosting power to about 4.75 HP. A CR boost might get you to the 5 HP range. You'll use about 20% less fuel too. There's also the option of eliminateing nitro completely & I don't think running straight methanol/oil will drop you back beyond GI power output & W/O nitro, fuel economy will icrease even more.

I'm looking for about 7HP if I can easily boost the CR W/inductioin modifications on my FA450R3D. The FA450R3D makes just over 6 HP on a straight CDI conversion W/15% Cool Power.

For those interested, if you haven't already, you can read about my FA180 experiments [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1754616]HERE[/link] and [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1769449]HERE.[/link]

Carosel43

It should be noted that spark ignition, and the improvements you get from it vary from engine to engine. I did a conversion on a Laser 150 and I get identical performance on glow, glowfuel with spark, and with petrol. The top end performance is exactly the same in each instance. The idle performance with spark and glowfuel was slightly improved but not enough to worry about. I was using 5% nitro 15% oil glow fuel and bog standard 95 octane petrol @ 40:1 in the tests. So on the laser 150 at least there is no advantage at all in spark and its all a waste of time. I am going to try our 180 though as it has a few things different so it will be interesting to see how it performs.

As for the 400 in the corsair im sure it will be ok. Not ballistic but it will fly. Just prop the engine for its max performance and not for looks.