WACO YMF
04-16-2011, 07:33 AM
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RE: WACO YMF
SCM,
Put some monocoat down where the fairings will be, put a little vaseline on the screw areas of the struts, mix up some epoxy with a lot of micro ballons, apply and shape with your finger, let set until the epoxy is almost hard (green stage) cut free, and sand smooth. Each one will need to be done seperately as thay are all different. You can use these as is or make some from light fiberglass with these as the plugs for a mold. Clean the screw areas well so you have dry surfaces for friction and or lock-tite to hold the screws in place.
Put some monocoat down where the fairings will be, put a little vaseline on the screw areas of the struts, mix up some epoxy with a lot of micro ballons, apply and shape with your finger, let set until the epoxy is almost hard (green stage) cut free, and sand smooth. Each one will need to be done seperately as thay are all different. You can use these as is or make some from light fiberglass with these as the plugs for a mold. Clean the screw areas well so you have dry surfaces for friction and or lock-tite to hold the screws in place.
04-16-2011, 07:34 AM
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RE: WACO YMF
Hi Everyone and greetings from across the big pond in a (surprisingly) sunny England!
I started designing my own “kit” in CAD, started with the Pepino Plan but seem to have changed most of it from that starting point..... Found this thread as I was looking for info and bits - I have been wading my way through this thread since then! – amazing stuff in it
Anyway – as I said I am trying to design in all the best features I can find and make this the best plane I have done to date..... what I am asking here is, does anyone have any really good CAD drawings for the Waco YMF? Or any of the moulds (or even parts) for the fibreglass parts that they would be willing to sell? As I am not terribly good at the details in mould making.
My plan is to do the 90”ish version first then scale up to maybe 1/3<sup>rd</sup> scale and after that..... well who knows!
(Over the last few years I have done a Fournier RF4 at 1/3<sup>rd</sup> scale then 1/2scale, a 1/3<sup>rd</sup> Scale Bucker Jungmeister then up to 1/2scale, and latest is a 1/3<sup>rd</sup> scale Piper Cub then up to 1/2scale on that as well! –can you see a pattern emerging!)
(Over the last few years I have done a Fournier RF4 at 1/3<sup>rd</sup> scale then 1/2scale, a 1/3<sup>rd</sup> Scale Bucker Jungmeister then up to 1/2scale, and latest is a 1/3<sup>rd</sup> scale Piper Cub then up to 1/2scale on that as well! –can you see a pattern emerging!)
So if anyone out there has good CAD plans or Fibreglass moulds or parts, then please get in contact!(by the way, how do you get to join the Brotherhood? Sounds like fun!)
Cheers
Richard
04-16-2011, 11:16 AM
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RE: WACO YMF
The Barth Kits seem to be well engineered for 1/4 scale and the AMR Kits are good for the 33% and 40% so why reinvent the wheel from a poorly done set of Plans (Pepino) As WacoNut can attest, just about everything needs redesign with the Pepino Plans. Parts do not match side to side and a myriad of other problems. He worked it out and created a good looking Waco. Barth and I think Fiberglas Specialties may have the cowl and pants in ¼ scale (90â€) but I do not know who has the strut fairings if anybody. The wing/fuselage fairings are different on the originals compared to the Waco Classic YMFs so that is another design decision to make.
To join, just ask Bill (Stickbuilder).
To join, just ask Bill (Stickbuilder).
04-16-2011, 12:48 PM
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RE: WACO YMF
Hi Richard,
no need to search in the US for the Waco. Please refer to my web site www.fmbb.de. There you will find a quarter and a third scale Waco. Both are 3 dim designed. You may have the a kit and fiber glass parts if you want. Sent me a PM.
Peter
Waco brother # 170
no need to search in the US for the Waco. Please refer to my web site www.fmbb.de. There you will find a quarter and a third scale Waco. Both are 3 dim designed. You may have the a kit and fiber glass parts if you want. Sent me a PM.
Peter
Waco brother # 170
04-16-2011, 12:59 PM
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RE: WACO YMF
Thanks skylarkmk1 the AMR is gorgeous but beyond but my means at the moment! and besides I really I love the design process. Also I am playing around with some very lightweight materials at the moment - which I want to experiment with in this model - but so far I have got a Half Scale Jungmeister to be under our 20kg rules! and my aim is to eventually do a 20ft plane under that too! but thats another story.... - so I am really looking for some decent CAD drawings I can work from and some fibreglass parts
I have access to a laser and so can cut anything I can draw and that is what I really enjoy. I can do fibreglass parts but am not as skilled at that and looking at what some of the guys on here have done already, I just thought that if someone out there had some moulds they had finished with or could supply me a set of parts then that would be well worth whatever it cost me....
I was working at 90in initially but will certainly consider a larger model if anyone has the parts available. eventually I will probably end up making a half scale Waco, but that may be a couple of years off yet!
<script></script>
I have access to a laser and so can cut anything I can draw and that is what I really enjoy. I can do fibreglass parts but am not as skilled at that and looking at what some of the guys on here have done already, I just thought that if someone out there had some moulds they had finished with or could supply me a set of parts then that would be well worth whatever it cost me....
I was working at 90in initially but will certainly consider a larger model if anyone has the parts available. eventually I will probably end up making a half scale Waco, but that may be a couple of years off yet!
<script></script>
04-16-2011, 01:31 PM
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RE: WACO YMF
wreck-em-rich
Go to Peters site www.fmbb.de. (Barth) or send him a note. Both Peter and the AMR guys have been very responsive to any questions about their kits and parts.
Angel,
The Fat Cuban as you call it is getting better every time you post another picture. Nice touch with the flight helmet under the windshield.
Go to Peters site www.fmbb.de. (Barth) or send him a note. Both Peter and the AMR guys have been very responsive to any questions about their kits and parts.
Angel,
The Fat Cuban as you call it is getting better every time you post another picture. Nice touch with the flight helmet under the windshield.
04-16-2011, 01:33 PM
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RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: FMBB
To All,
Sorry not a Waco question
hi brothers I have a problem with three view dwgs.. We eventually want to build a Great Lakes special. Currently we have three views from Harold Krier's ship but the struts are uncommon to "normal" Great Lake designs. Normally they have N-struts. As Krier's version is a radial which is perfect we would also like to built the boxer engine version. To enable both version in one kit we are in need to have the dwg. information for the boxer version as well. Unfortunately I have not found any usable dwgs. for the boxer version. The only address seems to be Steen Aero lab.. The are offering a lot of Great Lakes dwgs. but no information what's on the sheets (e.g. radial-, boxer- or in line version). Does any one of you know where I could get hold of a boxer version dwg set 3 view or even more views with section details would be nice.
Thanks for your support in advance.
Peter Waco brother #170
To All,
Sorry not a Waco question
hi brothers I have a problem with three view dwgs.. We eventually want to build a Great Lakes special. Currently we have three views from Harold Krier's ship but the struts are uncommon to "normal" Great Lake designs. Normally they have N-struts. As Krier's version is a radial which is perfect we would also like to built the boxer engine version. To enable both version in one kit we are in need to have the dwg. information for the boxer version as well. Unfortunately I have not found any usable dwgs. for the boxer version. The only address seems to be Steen Aero lab.. The are offering a lot of Great Lakes dwgs. but no information what's on the sheets (e.g. radial-, boxer- or in line version). Does any one of you know where I could get hold of a boxer version dwg set 3 view or even more views with section details would be nice.
Thanks for your support in advance.
Peter Waco brother #170
cheers
Richard
04-16-2011, 01:35 PM
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RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1
wreck-em-rich
Go to Peters site www.fmbb.de. (Barth) or send him a note. Both Peter and the AMR guys have been very responsive to any questions about their kits and parts.
wreck-em-rich
Go to Peters site www.fmbb.de. (Barth) or send him a note. Both Peter and the AMR guys have been very responsive to any questions about their kits and parts.
thanks
04-16-2011, 04:10 PM
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RE: WACO YMF
Progress to date.
Next job, make flying wire attach brackets so I can measure wire length and send to Aeroscale for streamlined wires.
Length from front of cowl to back of rudder....103"
height to top of upper cabane ....40" that's a yardstick standing up behind the cowl
Next job, make flying wire attach brackets so I can measure wire length and send to Aeroscale for streamlined wires.
Length from front of cowl to back of rudder....103"
height to top of upper cabane ....40" that's a yardstick standing up behind the cowl
04-17-2011, 09:57 PM
RE: WACO YMF
Yep,she is a fine looking ship Mogman,I really love the bigger size, wish Barth did a 40%er . On another note I'am looking for some photos that show the the tapes that are on the leading edge of the wings , tail plane , fine & rudder. When you apply the tapes around the tips of the wing & etc., do you do both top & bottom with the one tape or do you use 2 tapes that meet on the fare extremities ? Also are these tapes pinked as for the rib stitching tapes? Any help or advise would be appreciated.
Regards tmac
Regards tmac
04-17-2011, 10:50 PM
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RE: WACO YMF
tmac48,
The wing tips are taped with tape cut on the bias (45°) and are wider than regular straight rib tapes. Yes they are "pinked". When you stretch the bias tape around the tip (or orther similar curve) the tape conforms to the curve, sort of wrapping itself. There is not a tape along the leading edge of the wing on the constant chord area with the sheeted leading edge as the rib tapes start at the trailing edge and wrap around the leading edge and end at the traing edge. The tip ribs go from leading to trailing edges and the ends are cover by the bias tape.
The pictures are of a wing and rudder of a Waco YKS which are of similar construction to the YMF. Note not all of the rudder tapes cover stitching.
The wing tips are taped with tape cut on the bias (45°) and are wider than regular straight rib tapes. Yes they are "pinked". When you stretch the bias tape around the tip (or orther similar curve) the tape conforms to the curve, sort of wrapping itself. There is not a tape along the leading edge of the wing on the constant chord area with the sheeted leading edge as the rib tapes start at the trailing edge and wrap around the leading edge and end at the traing edge. The tip ribs go from leading to trailing edges and the ends are cover by the bias tape.
The pictures are of a wing and rudder of a Waco YKS which are of similar construction to the YMF. Note not all of the rudder tapes cover stitching.
04-18-2011, 06:13 AM
RE: WACO YMF
John, Thank you for the info, a few things I was wrong on what I believed to be the case. I see that one of your photos shows that although there is not a tape that covers the leading edge of the wing it appears to have a pinked tape on the transition of the sheeted part and the open structure.
tmac
tmac
04-18-2011, 06:42 AM
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RE: WACO YMF
tmac48,
The tape going span wise is at the transition from the leading edge sheeting (aluminum) to the open area at the front spar.
Yes, the Vertical Fin, Rudder, Horizontal Stab and Elevator are all taped along all edges. The bias tape is applied last so it covers the ends of the rib tapes. The frame work on the tail surfaces on the YMF is mostly steel tubing with flat pieces forming the ribs by going over and under the tube spar. This allows the airfoils to be thin, much thinner than found on the UPF.
P1 - Trailing edges of the Elevator, Note the circular fabric patch where the hinge penetrates the fabric. I was not at the airport when the tail surfaces were covered and only saw them after they were painted. The tapes are easy to see to the eye, but difficult to photograph.
The tape going span wise is at the transition from the leading edge sheeting (aluminum) to the open area at the front spar.
Yes, the Vertical Fin, Rudder, Horizontal Stab and Elevator are all taped along all edges. The bias tape is applied last so it covers the ends of the rib tapes. The frame work on the tail surfaces on the YMF is mostly steel tubing with flat pieces forming the ribs by going over and under the tube spar. This allows the airfoils to be thin, much thinner than found on the UPF.
P1 - Trailing edges of the Elevator, Note the circular fabric patch where the hinge penetrates the fabric. I was not at the airport when the tail surfaces were covered and only saw them after they were painted. The tapes are easy to see to the eye, but difficult to photograph.
04-18-2011, 01:57 PM
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: airplanegeek
I really like the idea of a set of 1/4 plans that would actually be buildable. Keep us posted!
I really like the idea of a set of 1/4 plans that would actually be buildable. Keep us posted!
Work on the 27% plans is progressing nicely.
Bill, Waco Brother #1
04-18-2011, 02:00 PM
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: wreck-em-rich
Thanks http://<b><font size=''2'' color=''#...mk1</font></b> the AMR is gorgeous but beyond but my means at the moment! and besides I really I love the design process. Also I am playing around with some very lightweight materials at the moment - which I want to experiment with in this model - but so far I have got a Half Scale Jungmeister to be under our 20kg rules! and my aim is to eventually do a 20ft plane under that too! but thats another story.... - so I am really looking for some decent CAD drawings I can work from and some fibreglass parts
I have access to a laser and so can cut anything I can draw and that is what I really enjoy. I can do fibreglass parts but am not as skilled at that and looking at what some of the guys on here have done already, I just thought that if someone out there had some moulds they had finished with or could supply me a set of parts then that would be well worth whatever it cost me....
I was working at 90in initially but will certainly consider a larger model if anyone has the parts available. eventually I will probably end up making a half scale Waco, but that may be a couple of years off yet!
<script></script>
Thanks http://<b><font size=''2'' color=''#...mk1</font></b> the AMR is gorgeous but beyond but my means at the moment! and besides I really I love the design process. Also I am playing around with some very lightweight materials at the moment - which I want to experiment with in this model - but so far I have got a Half Scale Jungmeister to be under our 20kg rules! and my aim is to eventually do a 20ft plane under that too! but thats another story.... - so I am really looking for some decent CAD drawings I can work from and some fibreglass parts
I have access to a laser and so can cut anything I can draw and that is what I really enjoy. I can do fibreglass parts but am not as skilled at that and looking at what some of the guys on here have done already, I just thought that if someone out there had some moulds they had finished with or could supply me a set of parts then that would be well worth whatever it cost me....
I was working at 90in initially but will certainly consider a larger model if anyone has the parts available. eventually I will probably end up making a half scale Waco, but that may be a couple of years off yet!
<script></script>
Be cautious of the AMR, especially if you plan to compete with it. It does not scale out very well without a lot of extra work. Read that as a ton of extra work. Just a notice. If you want to know how far away from scale the model is, just ask Lonnie. I provided Michel with a set of the original drawings. Why he has not seen fit to make the corrections is beyond me. I suppose its the same reason that Dany says that the information on the AMR is all correct.
Bill, Waco Brother #1
04-18-2011, 05:31 PM
RE: WACO YMF
wreck-em-rich
As John stated I built the Pepino Waco and I would not recommend the build to anyone unless you are into self punishment. When it was all said and done I could have purchased a kit from Peter Barth alot cheaper then I built the plane for and saved myself a few hundred hours of frustration. With that being said I am very proud of my 25% Waco mostly due to all the hard work and effort that went into it. It was a labor of love for over 9 months and 900+ hrs. I am glad I did it but I would not build that thing again for love or money. That build did teach me more than any other build I have done.
I also have built the AMR 33% Waco, this is one big and impressive Waco. I can't even imagine the 40%. The AMR kit does have some shortcomings in scale fidelity in some areas and as Bill stated these need to be corrected for competition. I do not compete so I did not worry too much about it and only made minor mods to my plane. I am very happy with my 33% Waco just as it is.
Lonnie did a bang up job with his Waco and I am sure we will see it this year in the scale circuit. He should be extremely proud of his Waco.
If you are going to design your own at 25% I would recommend getting Peter's fiberglass parts, I used them on my 25% Pepino Waco and they are nice. I can pretty much guarantee you will not be able to scratch build any cheaper than buying the kit from Peter IMO. I know in my case for the Pepino Waco I wound with several hundred more in my airframe.
Here are a couple pics of my 25% and 33%.
Anthony
As John stated I built the Pepino Waco and I would not recommend the build to anyone unless you are into self punishment. When it was all said and done I could have purchased a kit from Peter Barth alot cheaper then I built the plane for and saved myself a few hundred hours of frustration. With that being said I am very proud of my 25% Waco mostly due to all the hard work and effort that went into it. It was a labor of love for over 9 months and 900+ hrs. I am glad I did it but I would not build that thing again for love or money. That build did teach me more than any other build I have done.
I also have built the AMR 33% Waco, this is one big and impressive Waco. I can't even imagine the 40%. The AMR kit does have some shortcomings in scale fidelity in some areas and as Bill stated these need to be corrected for competition. I do not compete so I did not worry too much about it and only made minor mods to my plane. I am very happy with my 33% Waco just as it is.
Lonnie did a bang up job with his Waco and I am sure we will see it this year in the scale circuit. He should be extremely proud of his Waco.
If you are going to design your own at 25% I would recommend getting Peter's fiberglass parts, I used them on my 25% Pepino Waco and they are nice. I can pretty much guarantee you will not be able to scratch build any cheaper than buying the kit from Peter IMO. I know in my case for the Pepino Waco I wound with several hundred more in my airframe.
Here are a couple pics of my 25% and 33%.
Anthony