OK, so I'm in need of some assistance, although some may not agree with what I am doing. I'm pretty much going gung-ho and trying to fly my AXE. Had a bunch of RC cars and used to controls and what not. No SIM for me, I'd rather learn the hard way (since if SIM is like any other SIM, you are basically relearning anyway)

anyway, I'm just trying to get some feedback on what I see. I can get the bird in the air hopping and hovering for a brief few seconds. I experience what I've seen a few people mention in that the bird does not react the same way every time. Sometimes, it will pull up, hover, and give me a pretty solid response, and most importantly, at least a little time to react to its actions. other times, it will pull hard left or right, tilting pretty bad, and I cant recover quick enough. sliding left or right is fine, it's the tilting hard to one direction I can't recover from. i realize I have to add a bit of right stick to counteract during liftoff, but this seems excessive.

this is both indoors on a concrete surface, and outdoors with basically no wind. Is it normal for the bird to go into a hover, then pull hard into a tilt? I've tried to trim out the thing, but that doesn't seem to help. Blade tracking is good, servos look good, everything pretty much matches spec. swash seems to be free, no binding.

I think I will be ok, if I can get the thing to stay horizontal, until I can get familiar with the controls. Will flybar weights help this? adding some weight? any other tips to help out? Oh, this has strictly been with training gear on. It just seems to be sooo unstable compared to some of the videos I have seen.

I'm asking this becuase I have not seen anyone specifically deal with type of issue and explain it, maybe this can expand into a good beginners guide to how the heli is actually operating.

thanks!!!!

Joe

I know you seem to be against it, but the sim helped me a lot (enough said - take that for what it's worth)

flybar weights will help you out, pick up some 1/16" wheel collars, also the Blade CP flybar paddles help.

I'm not sure what's going on with your liftoff, someone else will help you shortly, but in the meantime, check that your servos are moving equally (unplug the motors first!!) and then check to make sure that your swashplate is level...

what I did, when I decided to quit piling it into the ground and learn to fly, I put it in my living room, and pretty much just scooted around on the floor for about 2 weeks getting used to the controls and what they'd do. I gave it a good amount of throttle, not enough to lift off, but enough to make it feel "light" as they call it. But, this gave me an idea of what it was going to do when airborne..

hope that helps man.. hang in there!


oh yeah, quit the "gung-ho" attitude, calm down and take it slowly dude... (I know this sucks, all I want to do is FLY!)

cool, thanks for insight. I hear ya on the SIM, but from what I gather, its like learning all over again anyway, and it is also $$ to spend (instead of spare parts).

the gung-ho attitude is 'cause this thing is just too cool to just look at sitting on the bench (broken or not). hahhah......really, i think i should be able to get this thing 'light' and have it repeatably do the same thing, which I don't see at this point; that is where my aggravations lie.

I'm going to try the flybar weights, after I fix my rear vertical fin. I gotta keep practicing!

That because most of us have either had some previous experience with another heli or dedicated lots of time to a SIM. Some of us have both. I personally have had previous experience with an FP Fun Piccolo, crashed that so much that it eventually became more CA and tape than actual plastic and carbon.

At any rate I also have cars and trucks and one bad habit we drivers all share is that we do not have the delicate touch necessary for helis. Its usually full throttle or hard turns or extreme changes in control input in whichever direction. Helis require very smooth, slow, and constant control inputs, a skill that we as car/truck drivers lack and have to acquire through practice.

Another thing to consider is that cars/trucks only travel in one plane (2d), helis as do other aircraft travel in more than one plane (3d) and are affected by wind. To make a long post really short. You need to practice, practice, practice², practice³

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ALIEN DUDE? are you telling me that there's more functions on my car remote than full throttle and full left/right? []

Joe, I started the same way. I impulse-bought the Axe and learned right away. Started with the scooting and sliding and moved onto hopping. I then read about moving the servo links and that helped me tremendously (moving the servo links is the other option you have to the flybar weights). I did that for two weeks, I think, and got it into a hover. I moved the servo links back to default and it's been great ever since. I've only recently started looked into buying a simulator because I'm exploring non-tail-in flight and want to minimize repair costs.

So, you may want to consider either the servo links tweak or the flybar weights and if you haven't, take it above 2 feet and out of the rotor wash to make it a bit more stable. Other than that, fight the good fight!

cool...although the 2 ft part is some of the problem, but I guess its 'cause i really don't know what I'm doing. To get it 2 ft off the ground, that bad boy will drift so fast and start pulling a wicked tilt, I can't even concentrate on making changes. I do appreciate the small slow movements comments, so.....that is what I am 'trying' to do.....

back to practice!!!

BTW, I hope I was clear in the first post........I'm asking all this just to make sure its the pilot, and not the craft......since I don't have a ton of experience CP. I can fly the FP and coaxial birds all day and night no sweat.......

a heading hold gyro will help out a bit also, that's the good part of the statement.. the bad part, it'll cost you 150-200 bucks to add it in. But there's another good side, when you decide to move into a different heli, you can take the gyro with you to the next one..

Actually, this didn't come to me until I got the hover. Before that, it was, "Compensate...whoa! Compensate...whoa! Compensate..." But yes, you'll learn to see what your Axe shouldn't be doing and where it shouldn't be going sooner and you'll find that your inputs get smoother and less exaggerated. Until then, it's gonna be swingin' all over the place!

All the above said, I hope you're using the training gear. Getting above 2 rotor spans makes it easier to fly (somewhat) but you will still crash repeatedly if you don't stack the deck in your favor. Put the pingpongs on, and then don't try to take off. On a smooth surface (concrete, garage floor, asphalt, whatever) ncrease the throttle until the skids come off but the balls stay on the ground, and then get used to controlling it. Don't take off until you can keep it in one spot.

Helicopters attitude is influenced by random air currents, so they do not stay in one place on their own except in unusual circumstances. If you just power up off the ground into the air, you will continue to crash, and as a result you will probably never get a chance to get over the overcontrolling that s_mcflurry describes-- I'm going this way, no, I'm going that way, no, I'm going.... this is called "pilot induced oscillation," i.e., over controlling one way, and compensating by overcontrolling the other way, and so on, and it almost always leads to a crash until you have skill enough to stop the cycle.

Oh, and a sim will significantly reduce your parts cost (it is one of the few things that *does* pay for itself). If this is your first heli, it's a safe bet that it's the pilot (depending on how much damage the heli has sustained, it could be both now), and you can get the skills you need a lot faster and cheaper with a good sim than just going out and throwing the heli in the air. Don't push it, man, if you want to learn to fly.

ok, thanks fellas for all your points.........now, just to be clear. it is totally normal for the craft to want to pitch in any direction, and not maintain a fairly solid horizontal orientation. If thats the case, then thats cool, I just have keep working at it.

Within reason . It won't be doing barrel rolls on its own, but it will tip moderately forwards, sideways, backwards, whatever direction it likes; if it keeps rolling/pitching in a single direction that should be trimmed out.

OK, thanks!!!

Mines once did a cartwheel all on its own.... [sm=punching.gif]... But then again it was on of those "OMFG *** I hit the idle up switch!!" moments.

Ha, I was referring to flight modes that don't involve having the main rotors in contact with stationary objects

As far as the tilting left or right goes, it will never stay where you want it. It will always tend to wander on its own, but realitively slowly. Its like balancing a 2 foot stick on your finger. You can never just hold still and have it stay, you always have to be watching it and correcting for the tilt.

If you ever see a heli "stationary" in a hover, you know that guy is working his "tail".

For your comment on expensive sims, try a search on Flight Model Simulator (FMS). Its free.

I don’t know if you looked at all aspects of the Axe. I mean RTF, yah it comes completely build and you get a radio, that doesn’t mean it will fly when you take it out of the box.

I had to balance the main blades and set the tracking. I also had a problem with the fly bar paddles. One was warped so it was replaced. Also make sure they are both parallel to the swash. Make sure the distance between the paddle and the stabilizer control hub is exactly the same. Being out of balance there can cause the rotor to move in unexpected directions.

And by all means, practice, practice, practice.

Jake

Joe,
I had the same problem with 2 different helis.
On both of mine is was bad cheap plastic covered blades.
At differet RPM the plastic would flutter and throw the blades out of track.
Get about 5 feet of mono line and tie each end to the fly bar right next to the head and let it hang.
It should be horiziontal and *NOT* leaning to 1 side.
Make sure the blades are not to loose.
I tighten mine so that when I grab 1 blade it won't move in the grip from the weight of the heli.
Check for excessive play in the head.
Check the servos and make sure their working and not binding.
This can be done with the motor off and just working the TX controls on the bench.
You have a bug in the heli but tracking it down may be the biggest problem.
Please keep us posted.
Vegas/

On an Axe CP that is a very VERY bad thing to do. You want the main blades to be on the loose side. Tight enough so that they will stay in place when you tilt the heli on its side but loose enough so that if you shake the heli they both drop to the same level. On a bigger heli having the blade grips tight apparently is a good thing. This I know becuase my TRex doesn't like loose blades.

Absolutely. It's actually a bad thing on any heli, though some will want more drag than others. Tightening the blades down firmly, though, will introduce vibration and put more stress on the grips.

The blades can't be tightened too much. They have to be able to Lead/Lag. If they can't as Oster said the heli will vibrate.

FP's do OK with tight blades, buy they usually vibrate and wobble so much anyway who can tell.

Ha, you know, I thought about tracking and balancing my HB-FP3, but then I thought, "why?"