Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

Hello everyone.My new CARF-Models 2013 Series 122” Extra 330SC in the Yellow Chequer scheme has arrived.

I wanted to share the research I did before I decided to go with the CARF-Models 122” Extra 330SC.Last fall I knew I was ready for a new airplane for IMAC competition.I had been flying a 118” Extra 300 and having a blast.I had no idea what I wanted to get.

For my new airplane I wanted to find out what the top competitors are looking for in a competition airframe.I contacted the U.S. pilots in the top seven at the 2012 Clover Creek Invitational and the 2012 Tucson Shootout.The U.S. pilots in the top seven at those two events included eight pilots.

I contacted those eight pilots and asked them five quick questions about airframes for IMAC style competition.

- What would you consider the optimal wingspan and weight for sequence work?

- What is the wingspan and weight of the airframe you flew at the CCI/TAS?

- What do you consider the advantages and disadvantages of a wood airframe?

- What do you consider the advantages and disadvantages of a composite airframe?

- What do you look for in a competition airframe?

Seven of the eight responded and they were all very insightful, helpful, and encouraging about the research.They were impressed that I was taking the time to really research what I thought would be the best airframe for me.I also got responses from one of the builders/callers for one of the pilots.That was another interesting perspective.

After talking with these seven pilots, it boiled down to a few common themes.

- The sweet spot for wingspan was 121” to 124”

- The sweet spot for weight for five of the seven pilots was between 41 and 42.5 pounds

Two of them were outside that norm and preferred 39 pounds.One of the pilots wants 41.5 pounds for calm conditions and prefers his 43 pound backup plane in windy conditions.

Based on all that, I still think I’ve hit a good average with the 121” to 124” wingspan with a weight between 41 and 42.5 pounds.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

The discussion on the advantages and disadvantages of wood and composite airframes turned into discussing custom built kits and composite airframes.At no point in the discussions was a wood ARF considered a top competition airframe.

The advantages of a custom built kit were:

- Easy to make any modifications you want while the kit is being built

- Stiffness of the airframe and wings can be integrated throughout the entire structure if planned and executed correctly

- Options for lightening during construction

- Easier to repair

The disadvantages of a wood kit were:

- Competition wood airplanes have to be built

- Susceptible to hangar rash

- Absorb fuel and smoke into them

- Airframe quality depends on the wood in the kit

- Not as forgiving to weather (climate change humid to dry and vice versa)

- Covering can bubble and wrinkle

- More maintenance (have to keep a close eye on stringers and formers that pop loose)

- Changes with age

- Deteriorates over time

- Not easily replaceable parts

The advantages of a composite airframe were:

- They have a great finish and are quick to assemble

- The composite planes always look brand new!

- Fit together better in the long run

- Easier to build

- Stronger

- Ailerons are stiffer

- Don’t have to deal with covering

- Handle climate and weather better

- Exact same plane every time

- Easy to duplicate setup on backup plane

- Easy to get replacement parts

- Interchangeable parts

- Easier to fit canisters inside (lots of room inside)

- Basically maintenance free

The disadvantages of a composite airframe were:

- Cannot modify anything on them

- Usually the wings are heavier

- Trailing edges aren’t thick enough

- Any damage takes a different skill set to repair

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

At that point the composite airframe seemed to have a long list of advantages with very few drawbacks.

The significant benefits I saw for the wood kit were the ability to make changes to the design during the build and the ability to lighten the airframe during the build.Since I wouldn’t change anyone’s design, the weight was the only remaining significant benefit for me with a custom built wood kit.The wood airframe had a long list of disadvantages.The cost to have a competition kit custom built and the wait for it to be completed were also concerns.

With the sweet spot for the weight ranging from 41 to 42.5 pounds and the sweet spot for the wingspan ranging from 121” to 124” wingspan, I wondered if a composite airframe could hit that sweet spot and have the things the top U.S. pilots were looking for in an airframe.

The last question I asked them was, “What are you looking for in a competition airframe?”Two common themes were:

- Long tail moment

- Sharp leading edges for good snap rolls

There were some contradictory thoughts.More than one pilot mentioned wanting light wings for snap rolls.The winner of the Shootout thought the weight of the wings had nothing to do with snaps, but that it was having large ailerons that let you control the stop of the snap.In fact, he said his wings were 4.5 pounds.You have to be able to snap really well to win the Shootout.

The Shootout winner also mentioned his preference for a single place canopy.He specifically said, “like an Extra 330SC, not like the Extra 260”.He actually replaced the canopy on his plane with a single place canopy.The Clover Creek Invitational winner was flying an Extra 330SC.

One of the pilots that has flown the 124” competition wood airframe and the 122” composite Extra 330SC said they both track the same due to the long skinny fuselage, but he thought the Extra 330SC presented better due to flying at a more scale speed.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

Hmmm…..The 122” wingspan composite Extra 330SC seems to be a world class competition airframe.There are two manufacturers that offer an Extra 330SC with a 122” wingspan.

Krill wants $4,095 for the airframe that accepts a 4-cylinder engine.That’s almost as much as a custom built wood kit!!I know it should fly great, but I also had concerns with the longevity of the airframe based on the comments I see online.

CARF-Models offers a 122” Extra 330SC for $800 to $1,200 less than Krill (depending on the scheme).They are known for their durability and strong construction.The Extra 260 I flew in 2006 went through 5 owners before I lost track of it.It still looked brand new.A guy at my field has a CARF-Models plane with over 1500 flights on it.It still looks brand new and is still as strong and straight as the day he put the maiden flight on it.One of the Advanced class pilots here in the Southwest is flying a CARF-Models plane he’s been competing with for the last 5 or 6 years.It still looks incredible and he’s winning contests in 2013!!

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

I loved the way my CARF-Models Extra 260 flew.It took me to the top of the podium for the Advanced class at the 2006 Tucson Shootout.I was curious about the feedback on the flight performance of the CARF-Models 122” Extra 330SC. (You'll have to remove the space from the website address)

Spencer Nordquist’s Dad/assistant

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1722790&postcount=394

Thought I'd update on the SC. After only 24 flights since maiden, my son competed in the Donnie Leseberg Memorial IMAC in Tucson last weekend with the SC. It flew fantastic and he pulled off 1st place in Advanced. This has been the best flying "out-of-the-box" plane we have ever owned.

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1744007&postcount=449

Spencer flew the Prado IMAC and Freestyle in Chino Ca this weekend and took 1st in Advanced with his 330SC. Plane flew like it was on rails and had plenty of power with the DA170/RE3's. This is fast becoming his all time favorite IMAC plane. It flies fast, precise and presents well. Great IMAC plane.

From Andrew Bird (no relation)

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1524574&postcount=3

I've got one and like it so much I ordered a second in a custom scheme!

I'm running a DA170 on cans and have loads of power for Advanced sequences. The plane has way better control authority than my old 260 so I can run a forward CG which works great for IMAC and flick in to full rate for great 3d performance. I've got just over 70 flights on the plane now and it's been rock solid.

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1524987&postcount=5

It seems to have some of the negatives from the Super Extra removed as well - the wing is a little higher, you have more aileron authority and the rudder works better. I've flown quite a lot of different composite planes recently (mainly Krill and Comp arf) and this is the one I'm sticking with. Build quality is good, the plane is bullet proof and flies great.

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1535732&postcount=38

Honestly - I love my plane. It's working great in the sequences for me and has the control surface power to be put in to high rate and 3d very well indeed. It's tough as old boots - I ham fistedly kept trying to perfect full power, vertical rolling 8's earlier in the week and still not the slightest complaint or bit of maintenance needed. I'd go as far as saying this is the best plane I've ever flown, and I've had my hands on a fair few over the last few years. It will fly straighter and knife edge way better than your old MX2.

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1541062&postcount=84

I'm running a 30x13EVOL on Zimmerman Cannisters with a DA170. Performance is very good.

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1572261&postcount=168

I used to have a compy 260 and really loved it. I got into the 330 and am really happy. Control authority is better, it couples less, 3d's way better in my IMAC set up just by going out to high rate.......
The 330 is longer and seems to track better as well. I've not tried one on a 200 yet but the other plane with a DA170 on cans has no problems with advanced sequences and no problems through the unlimited with my incompetent hack handedness not managing power as well as I could do.

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1743520&postcount=445

The plane is making me look like I fly way better than I can! I don't think I've flown anything that flies as straight as this plane before.

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1743520&postcount=413
I've been flying an EF 104" Extra recently then took my 330SC out for the day to see how I got on. It's funny having not flown it for a little while, it reminded me how brilliant it is. It's an incredible sequence plane and whilst not as agile and extreme for freestyle as the 104" EF, it's still great for a 40%'er. The huge ailerons help a lot and it just gives you so much time.

From Troy’s “assistant”

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1535761&postcount=39

It is hands down the best flying plane I have owned. Awesome machine

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1537843&postcount=71

I let Chris Brislin fly it at a competition last weekend, he was couldn't say enough about it. Loved it

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1606938&postcount=334

At our Australian champs last weekend, I gave a fly to a couple of the unlimited guys and they had no dramas getting thru the unlimited sequences. Mine has a 150 on re-3's

From Aaron Garle

http://www.flying giants.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1525009&postcount=6

I saw one perform this weekend with a DA-150 on RE3's. It flew awesome and looks great.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

So the winner of the Clover Creek Invitational flew a 122” Extra 330SC, the winner of the 2012 Tucson Shootout changed his plane to a single place canopy “like the 330SC” because he thinks an Extra with a single place canopy flies better, one of the pilots I interviewed thinks the 122” Extra 330SC tracks as well as the 124” competition wood kit but has better presentation because it flies at a more scale speed, and the pilots flying the CARF-Models 122” Extra 330SC love it!!

Wow!!I think I found my next plane. I contacted CARF-Models to get one in a Yellow Kiwi scheme.Andreas suggested developing a new scheme.I liked the idea.The Yellow Kiwi colors were my favorite, but the scheme didn’t have the great contrast between the top and bottom that is needed on a competition airframe.We went back and forth for two weeks exchanging ideas.

The resulting “Chequer Scheme” was a combination of two full scale schemes with the checkers added to the top.I think it turned out amazing!!

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

I’ll be building this “2013 Series” Extra 330SC for IMAC competition.To stay in that competition sweet spot I’ll be shooting for no less than 41 pounds and no more than 42 pounds.

I’ve selected this equipment:

DA-200M

Smart-Fly Dual Ignition Cutoff

KS-95 rear dump canisters

Mejzlik 30x13 EVO L propeller

Azure Hobbies 6” Carbon spinner

WrongWay RC A123 batteries (2500 mAh for receiver, not sure on ignition yet)

Smart-Fly PowerExpander Competition 12

Futaba R6014HS receiver

Futaba BLS152 Servos (4 aileron, 2 elevator, 2 rudder)

Futaba S9452 Servo (throttle)

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

Before I get started, I wanted to get your thoughts on a few items.

- I have some titanium 3/16” axles available.Any concerns with using titanium axles?I’ve used them on a 123” Aero-Works Extra 260 before.

- I’ve got ¼-20 x 2.25” titanium bolts I can use to mount the engine.Any concerns using titanium engine mount bolts?I’ve used them on a DA 170 mount before.

- I can support the canisters using plywood supports with silicone tubing in the corners or with KS comfort mounts (I think that’s what they call them).I’m guessing the plywood is lighter.Any benefits to the KS mounts over the old school plywood mounts?

- I’d like the simplest, lightest fuel tank setup.I have a Dubro 60 ounce tank that I’m told only weighs 5.1 ounces and should drop right in the plane’s tank tray.I saw a 64 ounce Juicy Juice bottle tank setup that is probably lighter and might fit in the tray.I have two of the WrongWay RC 32 ounce Fiji water bottle tanks.I’m planning on running a single line out of the tank setup to the carbs and then putting a “T” in the line before it gets to the carbs.Any feedback you’ve got on these fuel tank options would be helpful.

Thanks for any suggestions or recommendations!!

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Dean Bird

Wow!!I think I found my next plane.

The resulting “Chequer Scheme” was a combination of two full scale schemes with the checkers added to the top.I think it turned out amazing!!

CARF-Models has two Extra 330SC specials running right now. One is a limited time free color swap on the Chequer Scheme for either the 102" or 122" Extra 330SC. The other is a 10% discount on current U.S. inventory of certain schemes of the 122" Extra 330SC.



Click here for details on how to request either of these specials.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11470517/tm.htm

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

The build starts today. I'll be working while I'm watching The Masters.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

The truck arrived with two boxes. The wings were in one box and everything else was in the second box. I opened the boxes and inspected the contents while the truck driver waited for me to sign the Bill of Lading.

Both boxes were lined with 1" styrofoam. The wings were in padded bags and were in perfect condition. The fuselage was in the other box and was supported by 1" styrofoam formers. The stabs and rudder were in padded bags and all the rest of the contents were individually bubble wrapped and taped into the box to keep them secure.

Everything arrived in perfect condition!!

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

The contents included a paper copy of the instruction manual, the "Milled Wood parts bag", and the "Hardware bag". The wood parts bag includes the tank tray and I'm not sure what else yet.

The "Hardware bag" is marked "General" and includes individual hardware bags for the Rudder, Wings, and Stabs.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

Since I was starting the build while I was watching a golf tournament, I decided to do the elevator servos first. The surfaces are kept in place with this very low tack masking tape that comes off really easy with no residue.

I'm installing the Nylon Snap-In Thrust Bearings from McMaster-Carr. Each elevator uses 5 of stock number 7817K53. They have an inside diameter of 4mm and an outside diameter of 5.2mm. I also ordered 4mm carbon tube from McMaster-Carr to use for the hinge pins.

The three brass hinge pins for the rudder and elevators are about 68" long in total and weigh 2.3 ounces.

I put two 48" carbon tubes and 15 of the bearings on the scale. I have 96" of carbon tube on the scale. The total weight of the bearings and hinge pins will be .7 ounces. I'll save over 1.5 ounces in the tail, the hinges will be smooth, and slop free for a very long time.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

Each of the phenolic arms in the stab needs to have the hole for the bearings enlarged to 5.2mm. A 13/64" drill bit is very close.

I drilled from both ends with a 12" long 3/16" drill bit. That isn't enough, but it's closer to the 13/64" (plus a little) that is required.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

Now I used the 3/16" bit at an angle and moved it around the radius while turning the drill bit to remove a little more material.

Then I used the small 13/64" bit and turned it by hand about 6 times from each side to square off the edges of the hole.

Then I used a round KS needle file to take out the little bit left in the center.

Take your time until the 13/64" drill bit turns with just a little resistance in the hole. Then hit it with the round file just a little to get that micro little bit past 13/64" to get to 5.2mm.

I sure wish there was a 12" long 5.2mm drill bit.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

The Snap-In Thrust Bearings are easy to "snap in".

One key is that there is a small diameter retainer ring on one end and a larger diameter ring on the other. We want to insert the small diameter.

You'll quickly get the feel for how to get them inserted. Push on the left side of the bearing so that it's all the way in. Work your way around the bearing counter clockwise pushing the bearing towards the center and down into the hole. They install very quickly once you get the hang of it.

They should all be inserted the same direction so that the hinge pin is inserted from the end with the larger diameter retainer rings. I choose to orient the larger diameter so the hinge pin would be inserted from the tip of the stab.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

The hardwood in the elevator that the hinge pin goes through has slots cut in it to accept the phenolic arms in the stab.

Those slots have to be filed about a 1/16" wider to accept the nylon bearing that was added to each phenolic arm.

I had a flat KS needle file that is about 1/16" thick and 1/4" wide. It was perfect for taking a little out of these slots. Take your time. You want the slot to be the perfect width for the thrust bearing. That will make it impossible for any play in the direction of the hinge line.

I chose to remove the material from the inboard edge of the slot. That will create just a little more room between the rudder and the elevator halves.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

The servo trays are all drilled for 2.9mm screws that are included in the hardware. That works great for JR collets, but those won't fit through the Futaba collets. The options are to go without the collet or to force a JR collet in the grommet.

I didn't have any JR collets. I checked the head of the 2.9mm screws and they are larger than the screw hole in the servo mounting tab. The screws fit perfectly into the grommet.

I won't have the collet and the screw head coming together telling me when to stop tightening the screw, so I'll be careful to tighten them just right to get the grommet compressed slightly between the plywood and the screw head.

The servo tray has a hole drilled for the servo wire to make it's way back out of the stab. It real easy to get the servo wire through the hole if you just straighten it then put a hook in the end.

Drop the hook into the servo hole, pull the connector back up through the hole, then grab the connector with needle nose pliers or a hemostat.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

Here's the servo tray and the hole for the wire to come back out.

The plywood is doubled where the servo screws go through. You can use the round needle file in a little hand drill to make the holes just a little larger and make sure the hole is straight. The screws then had just the right amount of resistance but it never felt like the head was getting ready to slip or strip out.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

The hole for the servo is a little too small for our servos. A little hacksaw worked the best for me to remove a little material.

It needs to be about 1/16" wider on both sides of the servo. I started in the middle with the hacksaw and went to one corner. The second picture is what it looked like with the cut just getting started.

When you get to the first corner from the middle, turn the saw over and go the opposite direction to the other corner.

Turn the stab over and repeat on the other side of the servo.

I used a #2 X-acto handle and a blade with a 45 degree angle to take a very small amount off of each end.

About 10 minutes of work and the servo drops right in.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

I had some titanium turnbuckles hanging around so I decided to use them. A 3" turnbuckle is the same length as the threaded rod supplied. They are both the same diameter but are different threads.

The servo is mounted with the supplied screws and the wire brought back through the hole.

The ball link on the elevator control horn is 2" from the hinge center line. I only had 1.5" servo arms. I'll be changing to 1" arms since the maximum throw I'm going to need is no more than 25 degrees. I'll have LOTS of mechanical advantage and 500 ounces of torque from the servo!!

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

I cut the 4mm carbon tube so that it was 1/8" short of the end on both ends. I slowly rotated and slid in the tube from the tip end. Once it was flush with the tip, I used a short scrap of the 4mm tube to push it in another 1/8".

The hinges were super smooth and super tight. AWESOME!! I wanted to finish it up so the final product looked as great as it functioned.

I put a piece of blue painter's tape over the hinge pin hole and then cut the tape out of the hole.

I mixed up a small amount of 15 minute epoxy and put one drop into the hole. I quickly wiped off any that got on the painter's tape, removed the painter's tape, put on a 1" square piece of clear packing tape (with a little tab folded over to make it easy to remove), made sure the clear tape was sealed all the way around the hole, then turned in upside down so the epoxy would run back onto the clear tape.

I waited an hour and did the other end the same way.

Today I took the tape off both ends and used a Sharpie to color the epoxy plug and the seam between the two elevator halves.

No screws, no washers, no tubes with 90 degree bends and a screw to retain it. Nothing. It ended up looking great!!

The right stab was completed while I watched Adam Scott shoot a 68 and win a playoff to become the 2013 Masters Champion. What an enjoyable afternoon.

The left stab already has the bearings installed. I just need to install the servo, ball links, turnbuckle, and the hinge pin.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

I’m waiting for the 6” spinner.As soon as it arrives, the engine mounting will begin.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

I’m going to start work on the wings this evening.

Dean Bird

My Feedback: (39)

I started by adding a hatch for the outboard aileron servo. The first picture is from the manual. It's a picture of the hatch they created. I chose to have the servo arm slot included in the hatch. I have no idea why.

I used a yardstick inside the wing from the root to get a measurement from the wing root to the outboard servo tray. I decided to stay 1/8" away from the tray. That ended up about a 1/4" from the servo arm slot cut in the wing skin. That gave me the point for one side of the hatch.

I made the hatch tall enough (leading edge to trailing edge) that I could get to the screws with a screwdriver. The trailing edge side of the hatch was put a little more than 1/4" from the end of the servo arm slot. Now I've got the leading and trailing sides of the hatch determined. I was planning on putting the root edge of the hatch far enough that my stubby screwdriver was going to work inside the hatch.