Is this peformed with rudder and aileron in the same direction or in opposite directions?

In either case which happens ot be the spin maneuver, what is the other one called?

Thanks

Same direction for upright spins and opposite for inverted spins.

Are you referring to flat spins? I think there is something called a "spin" only and does not involve any elevator control, but I may be wrong.

Thanks

Since the spin is a stalled condition, you will need to use up elevator for upright spins and down elevator for inverted spins.

It all depends on the plane. I believe most require elevator to spin. Usually to enter a spin, you slow the plane down and as it slows you keep adding more and more elevator to keep the plane at the same altitude. Obviously the pitch of the plane will change but you still want to keep it at the same altitute. Eventually, once the plane slows enough in conjunction with the angle of attack, one wing will stall (usually the left but this can vary due to cross winds etc). Once this happens apply up elevator and full rudder and aileron in the same direction as the stalled wing. To get out, you just release the sticks and immediately go to a little bit of down elevator to ge the plane into a good verticle downline.

In IMAC the wing MUST STALL in the manuever. The judges watch for the front of the plane to suddenly drop down. If they see an abrupt pitch upward before the spin, you loose points as you snapped the plane first to force it into a spin.

Hope this helps.........Mark

That is perfectly true. I got zeros all the way because I slightly cheated the stall.

What I don't understand is why my plane does better spins in windy conditions. Visually, a stall in the wind just seem to be a deeper stall than a stall with no wind.

What is going on with the plane seeming to "stall better" in windy conditions is you're perspective of the flight is changed... the plane doesn't care.

There was an article in Model Aviation (the most recent issue or the one prior?) which thouroughly explains how we, sitting in place on the ground will have a perception problem related to how the airplane is flying in the moving air above us. Its worth reading, as it will clear up a LOT of common misconceptions.

With some head wind, the plane nearly stops (relative to the ground) before stalling so the overall appearance of the spin is a nice clean 90 degrees break from horizontal flight to vertically descending flight. I understand that the plane does not care of wind but I care of a better looking maneuver in IMAC so a little head wind is good to me.

If you look at all well drawn sequences, spins will be called out "into the wind." And it is done for this very reason. You can fly in either direction--but you will almost always score better with the spin into the wind because it is much easier to judge the stall entry.

Ken

I fly an 29% AW Edge and I was trying regular spins before the weather turned ugly up here and here is what I saw:
At the point where the plane stops in the air and I have full up elevator input, instead of dipping the nose down or stall a wing the whole plane just mushes into an elevator.... I'm thinking that I can correct that by moving the cg to the front a bit but I'm wondering if there is another way of inducing the spin entry.
I tried relaxing the elevator a bit just before the vertical descent begins and that caused the nose to drop for a bit and then just started flying again.
It looks to me that I need to guide the plane into what it's supposed to do.(Drop the nose with elevator at the right time along with just a bit aileron)
Any thoughts on that?

Hi Stratos

A more tail heavy plane will stall more sharply so I think you should move your CG back a bit.

If you do that, you should get zeros, I tried it...

I read thread somewhere on how to get an Edge into a spin (written by Bill hample). I'll see if I cn find it. If I recall you do as you list above (relaxing the elevator a bit just before the vertical descent begins ) but you have to add just a little rudder in the direction of the spin.

I'll see if I can find the article and P-mail you with it.

.........Mark

Hi Stratos,

I flew a 29% Edge my first year in IMAC in Sportsman. Great plane. However, spins are a NIGHTMARE with this plane. I had an extremely difficult time because it did the same thing--just mushed ahead with elevator. There are three ways I know of to help with this:

1. Keep your speed up longer. Quick deceleration of the plane with quick application of elevator (to maintain level flight) will help lots. AS SOON AS YOU SEE THE BREAK, get on the rudder. I hold a little rudder just before the break to "help" the plane decide which way to spin--done correctly, it is unnoticable. By the way, usually you will be flying in a crosswind, so you will be adding rudder to keep your line straight anyway. Go with the spin in the direction that you are applying rudder. It goes without saying that the wings MUST be level for this to work. Add ailerons after the spins starts--it helps make the exit of the spin more consistent. With my 29% Edge, it took 1/4 to 1/2 spin to neutralize without ailerons. Instantaneous with ailerons.

2. Fake it. Just about the time you have full elevator and the nose is nice and high, relax the elevator quickly to neutral. Add rudder--NOT AILERONS yet. As the plane begins to rotate, add full elevator and ailerons. Be careful with this entry--it is easy to snap the plane into the spin. This was usually the route I took with my Edge to get the darn thing to "break." Just be careful--this is an easy maneuver to zero if you screw up your timing.

3. Get an Extra. I now have a RadioCraft 35% Extra, and spin entry is a snap. Just keep adding elevator until the nose breaks. Wow, after last year that was a big improvement!

Most guys flying Edges deal with this problem. But this is what makes the Edge such a great 3D machine. Tradeoffs! You can do very will with your 29% Edge in IMAC, it just takes a little more work IMO. Good luck!

Ken

2.

The problem with the Edge isn't that it won't break on the spin entry, but that the break is gradual and the nose doesn't pitch down a whole lot compared to other planes. The slow motion mush-break gets missed by some judges unfortunately. The only way to get a sharper higher speed break is to use more rpm and speed while adding up elevator. This gets the nose very high and will give a sharper break. Unfortunately, this tends to make the plane climb from the straight line entry, so there's another downgrade. Adding a little rudder does help sharpen the break, but then you've got some judges who are trying to donwgrade for that too.

Thats why there was only one Edge flown at the TOC and fifteen Extras,mostly 330s. Spin entry!! Besides tracking a bit better.

...and I believe the edge that was flown at TOC was a back-up plane to an Extra that was crashed during practice



Hubb

Thought I'd pick this up again on a different track. I'm hoping to start Basic this year with a modest CGM Sukhoi. I got out flying today and I believe I was entering the spin "honestly" but the rotation speed seemed very slow. However, I was using rudder only and no aileron. Next time, I'll add the ailerons after the spin has started. One big problem I have is nerve. It seems like I don't have enough altitude when flying my regular "box" altitude. Two full spins seems to take too much altitude. I wonder how strict the spin judging will be in Basic.

It's going to be pretty strict: They want to see the plane actually stall, and enter autorotation. I think using some Aileron in the spin will get it going around a little quicker. One thing to try is memorizing the pattern so you know which maneuver comes before the spin. When you do that maneuver, make sure to make it really big so you end up with plenty of altitude for the spin. Hope this helps!

The plane IS stalling better...the groundspeed has decreased because of the headwind, but the airspeed has increased causing better airflow over the controls and a much better break because you have more pitch authority due to the increased airflow over the elevator...this gives you a higher angle of attack at stall break, thus the prettier 'cleaner' break. I notice the difference to...my 'perspective' has nothing to do with what I feel through the sticks...only what I see. I do see the difference in perspective, but what I can feel is more important in stalled manuevers.

Sorry, you are not getting better airflow when flying into the wind. It's just not the case. The plane doesn't know whether it is flying into the wind or not.