RADAR G-Man

I just bought a Photon Mini Buggy. Before the first LiPo was finished, the front Diff was history! The next day, we returned to our LHS where the purchase was made and they kindly replaced the Buggy with the only other one they had.

That afternoon, not even halfway through the LiPo, the new one started to make a noise that sounded like......you guessed it, the front diff has one or two rough spots in it!

I have NOT run this car hard by any means. The second one was treated with "Kit Gloves" and still, I'm loosing a diff.! I realize that the HiMax motor has a lot of power, but it seems that if you can't even run this car in your driveway for 15 minutes without a gear related failure, I have to question whether or not the purchase is worth it! Having to change parts that soon, just running in the driveway, not a racing enviroment, just don't make sense.

So, the problem is, I want to keep this car and make it work for me. I don't mind upgrading to the metal diffs if they will hold up. I'm having doubts whether or not they will last if the stock ones won't last longer that 15 to 20 minutes.

My LHS said that they will check into the metal diffs and maybe the posibility of the need for shims. I am even considering the larger pinion gear to take a little torque out of it. The problem with that is, I'm not sure how that will change the performance.

I REALLY love the speed of this thing!! It handles great and tracks true for such a little car. It just needs to do it for more that one battery pack.

My questions to the rep(s) here are:
1. Can you tell me if there is a know issue with the stock diffs? If so, could you help me out?
2. Would shims help the life span of these? (I ask because the LHS changed the bad one off of the first Buggy, and it looked loose and sloppy).
3. Will the cost of the metal gears be worth the longevity of the parts?
4. Do you think the 17T Pinion will make a big difference.

Can and will IRC help me with this?

I think the the buggy is a great concept with the Mamba/HiMax combo, but is it a tad too much "beef" for this little thing?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice. The wife really loves this thing when it runs, and you know how important keeping her happy is to all of my hobbies!!

RADR G-Man

RC-BOSS

Dear Radr,
I am sorry to hear you are having problems with your front diffs.

Any time a diff is shimmed, if done correctly, it should be an improvement.

First, the Photon comes out of the box with both front and rear metal diffs! If your LHS is asking you to upgrade to metal diffs (especially if they claim to already have replaced one front diff, they would have seen the gears were metal!) I would double check on their expertise regarding this types of issues.

There have been almost zero issues with the front diffs. To be honest, some people have been blowing the rear diffs (this is were most of the torque goes) and it always difficult for us to determine if it a defective part or if it is caused by user error (like banging into walls, etc.)

When developing and testing this product, a decision was made to not "hard code" the Mamba ESC so as to allow the user the full potential and flexibility of having such a great ESC!

In answer to your problem, I would thoroughly check the vehicle to ensure the diff issue is not a result of something else in the vehicle that is causing front diff problems to constantly re-occur. This is an extremely powerful car and the weakest component will always be the one to go, especially at 40+ mph. and of course, it is always possible that something else is defective or has been inadvertantly damaged.

Another alternative, If you have the optional USB cable, is to try to tone down the initial throttle surge by changing the power curve of the ESC. If you don't have the USB, you probably have no idea of what I am talking about.

I hope some or all of this has helped you.

RADAR G-Man

RC-Boss,

Thanks for your response. I thought the gears were metal!! I looked at the one that was removed by the LHS and said "these look like they are already metal". The response was "nah....that's just silver grease". I think your right about the expertise.

Anyway, to be honest, I'm not yet sure that the problem I'm experiencing now is a diff problem. About halfway through the first battery, it started to make a "clicking" noise. When I spin the main gear there are a couple of rough spots. It does not appear to be the main gear/pinion mesh, but I have not worked on it yet to try and find the culprit. I will do that this weekend.

I ordered the cable from Castle, it is on back order for 1 to 2 weeks. I have not driven it, and won't until I figure out what the problem is. I don't want to make it worse in case it is "fixable". I did program it using the Tx for the lowest throttle response (they call it "take-off" power I think). But you're right, I didn't know there was more control of the Mamba program. I have worked on electronics and computers since the "tube" days (my specialty is Terminal RADAR and Automation systems). I understand programing processes and look forward to "tweaking" this little turd.

I will check it out with a fine tooth comb and see what I can figure out.

Question: If it is a diff again, it may not be too late for it. If it can be shimmed, are there kits available or instructions on how to do it somewhere you can direct me to. Any help here would be appreciated. I am quite mechanically inclined, but have never torn into one of these little things!

Thanks again for your help. As I said, it's important I resolve this problem because we love it and "chomp at the bit" to run it!

Hoot

RC-BOSS

Dear Hoot,

You can get the Mamba USB cable from the IRC Racing web store www.internet-rc.com and I know that iti is in stock.

Shim kits are available for about $2-$3 from hobby shops. I heard that shim kits for the Kyosho mini and the Losi will work on our diff.

Without visually seeing the diff and actually playing with it, I really can't tell you if it is the diff and if it is salvagable. But, clicking out of the diff box is not a good sign. You may have to replace the diff.

t9dragon

My Feedback: (11)

If it was clicking out of the box, maybe IRC should send him a new diff set.

RADAR G-Man

RC-Boss,

It turns out that the USB cable shipped today. I appreciate the input on the shim kits. Sounds cheap unless you include the cost of my time (which really goes up on weekends). It looks like just changing one diff will take some time! You gotta have eyes like a hawk and nerves of steel.

t9dragon,

I agree, when I check it out further (just to be 100% sure), and it turns out to be the diff (again), then I'll figure out what plan "B" should look like.

I know you don't know me from adam (RC-Boss), but I honestly did nothing that the buggy should not be capable of. Some quick acceleration, but no "rough" stuff. Anyway, thanks for the help. I'll post again when I am sure what the problem is.

By the way, you stated that there have been very few issues with the diffs? Could that be because there are not that many units out there? I mean, 2 for 2 and only one battery in each? I know that at face value the common denominator is.......me! But if I did something wrong, I sure don't know what it could be. I should be able to drive it and have fun, not replace diffs after every battery. Sorry for the short rant......you know what I mean.

Thanks again and talk to ya soon,
HOOT

RC-BOSS

Sorry, I did not mean to imply you were at fault. You asked me about issues and I gave you the honest answer.

I hope you get it up and working because this is a fantastic little car! 4 magazine reviewes coming out in the next couple of weeks and it got an A+ from all of them!

If problems continue, I will give you a phone number in a PM you can call to get more help.

RADAR G-Man

RC-Boss,

Oh no! You did not imply anything of the sort. I did! You've only been trying to help me. I was just trying to see the situation from your (and others) perspective. I can only imagine the things you see. I know, I work in technical support, and just when you think you've heard it all.......

So just keep on doin' what you do and don't be afraid to "hit me between the eyes" with what you think. I will definitely get back with you when I know more (soon).

Thanks again and I certainly hope I did not offend you.
HOOT

RADAR G-Man

UNBELIEVABLE!! RC-Boss, I owe you a BIG apology! I finially had a chance to check it out and the problem was the pinion/main gear mesh! When I removed the motor, the drive shaft rotated smoothly. I then replaced the motor and "eyeballed" the gear mesh, the rough spots were gone! I ran it a little in the house and the "clicking" was gone!

Sorry for all the yelling, I'm just glad that the problem was not the diffs.. I'd rather have egg on my face than have to replace a major component (and bother you more).

I am sooooo sorry for my ignorance of jumping to conclusions before I really checked it out. Believe me, "panic mode" is really not my style. But in this case.........well, I guess the facts speak for themselves. I have a couple of excuses, but that's not my style either.

Thank you for your support and understanding. I know we will enjoy the Photon very much. I may be in touch with you in the near future about advise on upgrades and hop ups. For now I'm just "tickled to death" to have a solid stock car. You can understand that my first experience, after dropping some big bucks, did not leave me with much of a "warm fuzzy".

I am still going to look into shims for the diffs. I know that with all the power in this thing, (and after loosing one diff) it would be good to "beef" them up. I will also play with the throttle response curve (when I get the cable) to try and make the "take-off" power a little more subtle. It's very harse and jerky on take-off.

By the way, can you suggest a proper method of aligning the pinion and main gear? I know that I don't want it too tight, but I imagine that too loose can't be a good thing either. I just tightned it up until it was a little snug, then backed it off a little so that everything was smooth. I don't want to run it hard until I know it's right (at least close).

I also noticed that the Mamba gets very hot. Can it handle this heat, or is there something I can do about that?

I know........after all this, I'm asking more questions. Well, if your bored and have a little time on your hands, I would appreciate your input (again).

Thanks again RC-Boss. I'll let you know how things are going as I run it more. I'm excited again!

HOOT

RC-BOSS

Dear Hoot,

More than anything, I am glad you resolved the problem. I'm sure your last few write ups on this forum will help some other people.

It sounds as though you have the pinion set just like I would set it.

The Mamba will run warm but that's OK. It's rated at 25 amps and it can take it! That's why we decided to put it in the Photon. It's a great ESC.

I think you will like fooling around with the power curve when you get the USB cable. It's nice to be able to tailor the power the way you like it. Another great Mamba feature!

The shim idea is a good one if you happen to have a need to disassemble the diffs. It's not mandatory but does make them a little more stable.

Tons of hop-ups available including plenty of Aluminum parts and some carbon fiber ones also. The included FM radio will not be affected by allot of Aluminum and that's why we included the FM radio with the Buggy.

Don't forget to show your friends the Photon. Five minutes with it an your addicted!

Good luck and happy modeling!

vzereeys

Sorry for being off topic and jacking G-Mans thread but I'm SOOOO glad that the problem was not IRCs fault. I just recently ordered a Photon and than stumbled upon this thread so you know I had my doubts. But glad to hear that G-man got it fixed. Can't Wait till my Photon comes

RADAR G-Man

vzereeys,

Yea, this was definitely my bad. But I do have a tip that may help when yours arrives.

When I first got mine, I had some dificulty communicating with the Mamba ESC. First, the Steering and Throtle Reverse switches are labeled "N" and "R". The instructions don't say what "N" and "R" mean. I assumed the "N" stood for "Normal" and "R" stood for "Reverse". Apparently my assumption was wrong. I had to switch them both to the "R" position to work.

Also, I had to turn the Throtle Trim all the way down (counter clockwise), or close to it, or the Mamba would not recognize Reverse Trigger on the Tx..

Once the Reverse Switches were set, and the Throtle Trim turned all the way down, it went through the program. It took me a few tries to check all of the setings. Once you get the TX to talk to the Mamba, things can happen pretty quick. You have to learn the expected LED "codes" and know how to respond to them. It's all done with a series of LED flashes and trigger pulls/pushes (if you don't have a USB cable to use on your computer). If you have experience with doing this, you obviously won't have a problem. If you're like me, well........let's just say it took me a few tries.

Anyway, RC-Boss is wrong. It won't take five minutes to become addicted. But it may take a little longer than that to get up and going.

Hope you have a great experience. I can guarantee a little facial pain from the smile!!!

Apparently, we should stay in touch with this Support Forum. It's pretty obvious that it's well moderated.

Thanks guys. We'll be in touch.

HOOT

P.S. What does "N" and "R" stand for?

chris4x4

I am also following this thread. Im interested in the Photon. I talked with RC-BOSS and he told me that the Photon is RTR. You dodnt have to program the ESC and the Transmitter, as it is already programmed from the factory, despite what the instructions say. Keep us posted on how you like it.
Chris

RADAR G-Man

Chris,

RC-Boss is correct of course. Although, I'm sure he mentioned that you MUST check/set the battery cut-off to 9.0 volts for 3 cell Li-Po batteries. The manual is very specific about this. DO NOT trust that the factory has set it for you. Mine was at the factory default which is "No Cut-Off". Since the cut-off setting is step 3 in the process, you have to go through at least the first two setting options to check/change this setting. So the point is, you might as well go through and check/set them all (there's only 5 settings you can control with the Tx). If you don't have the "Castle Link" software and cable, then everything has to be done in a specific sequence with little "flexibility".

BUT, the first thing you have to do is calibrate the Mamba to your TX. That's where I ran into some issues with the Tx Steering and Throtle Reverse Switches and the Throtle Trim mentioned in my previous post. My intent with these posts is to help save you time and get you up and running quickly. I know how I wanted to get the Photon out on the pavement!! I hope my post does not scare you in anyway, that was not my intent. It's really very easy and interesting. Doing these things will also help familiarize you with your new Buggy. So it's "all good".

FYI - I just recieved my Castle Link set up and it's cool! The first thing I did was update the firmware for the Mamba to ver. 1.06 (it came with v1.05). Then I made a few other adjustments, but it's been raining here, and I can't really check them out until I can get outside to "stretch" the little legs on this thing again! It is sooo unbelievably quick (read that as SICK) that we are going to kinda "tone down" the program a little for now. Just having the controls that the Mamba affords you is great!!

Hope this helps you in some way. I don't have enough "seat time" on the Photon to really have a valid opinion of it yet. You know, in terms of quality, durability, drivability, maintainability etc.. But I will be posting my experiences from time to time. I hope you will too (should you decide to purchase one).

Have fun and remember, when the distance between the Buggy and a brick wall is decreasing very, very fast.......BRAKE!!!!!!!



Hoot

vzereeys

First off, I apologize if I sound newbish; this is my first experience with a mamba and a brushless. Now that I got that out of the way, I was wondering if there was a way to "reset" or "delete" a set setting on the mamba. I think I got the photon already programmed because when I went to program it, it just responded to my tx. Also, is the mamba esc suppose to get warm/hot after just a little run time?
Thanks

Also, when I'm charging the batteries, I'm assuming red is charging, flashing green and red is done right?

EDIT:

Well, I was running it and it was doing wheelies and all that good stuff. But I notice the pinion gear slipping so I tightened the screw in the pinion gear. After assembling it, I noticed I too was getting a bad clicking nose. I thought it was the pinion gear not meshing right with the main gear so I checked it out. But the pinion gear and the main gear were fine. So I thought it was the rear differentials/gears and to my surprise, I noticed that the metal gear that was attached to the main gear outside of the gear box was totally shaved off. What I mean by shaved off is that the teeth of the gears are pointing to the right instead of being straight. Any solution?
Thanks

My email is [email protected]
AIM: HmHeCar

Thanks

RADAR G-Man

Vzereeys,

I don't have time tonight, but I will post tomorrow night and try to get to the bottom of the problem. I'm very interested. You say the gear "outside" of the Diff? I'll have to look at mine tomorrow.

Talk to ya soon,
HOOT

vzereeys

Thanks for looking into it. The deformed gear's part #s are 30764 and 30993 (Rear diff/tranny). I loved this little buggy and its speed until this happend..... I'm so sad [&o]

RADAR G-Man

vzereeys,

I don't know, that don't sound right to me! What confuses me (and my LHS) is that the manual shows the stock diffs being plastic (part #s 30991 and 30992) but most (not all) of the advertisements and RC-Boss say that they are metal! The manual shows the metal ones (part# 32002 and 32003) are optional. Well.........which is it.

It makes a BIG difference! The part numbers you quoted are for the plastic gears. The number for the metal ones are 32004 and 32009.

I think that it may be time for you to start a new thread and ask RC-Boss, or one of the other moderators what the heck is up. Are these metal or plastic? This needs to not only be cleared up, but published!!

What do you think vzereeys? Do you think they are metal? I have not taken my diffs apart so I can't say one way or another. The one I saw looked like metal (kinda silver colored), but I did nothing but look.

If it ever stops raining here in Houston, I'll run mine and see if it will last more than one battery! Lets hope this does not become a big problem.

Anyway, these guys seem to be very helpful. Let's see if they can help you (us) get to the bottom of this.

Good luck,
HOOT

vzereeys

Yeah they are metal. Also, the metal shavings from the grinded gears mixed with the grease and looks like silver grease. So that's probably why your lhs thought that the gears were plastic and thought that it was only silver grease.
My only solution is using the front diff/tranny and just running it 2wd.....[&o] But that's my last resort and I'm scared that the front diff/tranny would get grinded up also.

Thanks

RC-BOSS

Guys,
The differentials do have metal gears. The correct part numbers for the complete front and rear diffs are 32003 (rear) and 32002 (front). The instructions were printed incorrectly. What I am telling you here is correct. Initially, the Photons were going to come with plastic diff gears but during the first production, a decision was made to upgrade them to metal gears. Plastic diff gears (right now at least) are available if someone wants plastic diff gears. The plastic gear diffs are not a standard item but a few are available.

The grease in the diffs are a light gray color, even in new ones.

We apologize for the confusion.

vzereeys

is there any solution to my dilemma?

RC-BOSS

I went back and read some of your posts. By your dilema, I think I found 2 problems you addressed. The pinion gear and the rear diff.

You will have to replace the pinion gear. It is available in 15T or 17T (# of teeth). I strongly suggest also changing the spur gear at the same time. Make sure they are correctly spaced from one another or, one, the other, or both gears will be ruined quickly. You will ware out spur gears and how long they last will be determined by how the car is driven (assuming they were set correctly to begin with). Just the nature of the beast (so to say).

Regarding the diff issue: It is difficult to say what is going on without physically seeing the diff. This is an area where your dealer who sold you the Photon should be helping you with. If the diff was defective to begin with, we will send the dealer a replacement but we need to discuss that situation with the dealer your purchased it from.

I hope this info helps.

vzereeys

well, I bought it online (ebay) so it might be a little complicated. Also, I believe the pinion gear and the spur gear are meshing corretly. Its firm but not too firm and rotates smoothly.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...7865&rd=1&rd=1

If you would like to see the rear diffs, I could send them to you and you can take a look at them.

RC-BOSS

You bought a Photon from eBay? So you bought it used, right?

vzereeys

It stated that it was new-in-box and when I got it, it was new. I'm assuming it's not under warranty because it's from ebay?