Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
#1
Thread Starter
Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
Had two mid-flight shutdowns today with my K140F. Both 3-4 minutes after take off. What info can I get from the Data Terminal after landing to try and diagnose the problem? After the first dead stick landing I refilled and ran the engine on the ground for 6-7 minutes without problem so I'm a little mystified what's wrong.
#4
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
Think I found it on the Data Terminal. Click the down arrow once and it reads SpeedLow, T=384 deg C, RPM 20000, Pw 820. Any ideas? Runs fine on the ground. Have done several test runs without problem. Should also mention I had a trail of white smoke after first shutdown. Not on the second though I don't think.
EDIT: Done some googling. Air bubbles in fuel line possibly. I'll do a test run and check.
EDIT: Done some googling. Air bubbles in fuel line possibly. I'll do a test run and check.
#5
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
when is it flaming out on you? example full thrust..........during spool.........at idle..........etc....
white smoke is an indication that you lost the flame, then you got fuel delivered that caused the smoke (air bubble put the flame out) no smoke can be a bad pump/valve or a big air bubble.
white smoke is an indication that you lost the flame, then you got fuel delivered that caused the smoke (air bubble put the flame out) no smoke can be a bad pump/valve or a big air bubble.
#6
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
ORIGINAL: DominicM
Think I found it on the Data Terminal. Click the down arrow once and it reads SpeedLow, T=384 deg C, RPM 20000, Pw 820. Any ideas? Runs fine on the ground. Have done several test runs without problem. Should also mention I had a trail of white smoke after first shutdown. Not on the second though I don't think.
EDIT: Done some googling. Air bubbles in fuel line possibly. I'll do a test run and check.
Think I found it on the Data Terminal. Click the down arrow once and it reads SpeedLow, T=384 deg C, RPM 20000, Pw 820. Any ideas? Runs fine on the ground. Have done several test runs without problem. Should also mention I had a trail of white smoke after first shutdown. Not on the second though I don't think.
EDIT: Done some googling. Air bubbles in fuel line possibly. I'll do a test run and check.
Barry
#10
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
OK. So redone ALL the plumbing to my K140F making very sure no kinks in the line at any point. Connected Data Terminal to prime pump and I get OVERLOAD. The pump just makes a high pitch wine, not the normal clicking sound, and then I get the OVERLOAD error message. Suggestions?
Label on pump says ZP30020FKT. I've not changed any values on the Data Terminal since out of the box and I've relearned radio settings twice.
Label on pump says ZP30020FKT. I've not changed any values on the Data Terminal since out of the box and I've relearned radio settings twice.
#12
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
It is. I've tested both valves by using the test function in the Data Terminal and I can hear them opening and closing (i.e. clicking). Also tested the starter without problem. Only the pump fails to run in prime pump test on the Data Terminal and this is the only test that gives me OVERLOAD error. Maybe a faulty pump?
#14
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
OK. In the process of carefully pulling the fuel intake line off the pump I noticed through the plastic covering on the pump that the positive power lead looked very lose. Pulled it carefully and sure enough its come away. Looks like soldering was bad. Am I OK to remove the covering and resolder without invalidating warranty? I'll just try to remove some of it not the whole lot.
#15
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
ORIGINAL: DominicM
OK. In the process of carefully pulling the fuel intake line off the pump I noticed through the plastic covering on the pump that the positive power lead looked very lose. Pulled it carefully and sure enough its come away. Looks like soldering was bad. Am I OK to remove the covering and resolder without invalidating warranty? I'll just try to remove some of it not the whole lot.
OK. In the process of carefully pulling the fuel intake line off the pump I noticed through the plastic covering on the pump that the positive power lead looked very lose. Pulled it carefully and sure enough its come away. Looks like soldering was bad. Am I OK to remove the covering and resolder without invalidating warranty? I'll just try to remove some of it not the whole lot.
#16
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
Thanks. Will do and will get back with result in about an hour. Thanks for your prompt responses!
#17
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
Re-attached the positive wire, re-tested prime pump and unfortunatley get the same result. In and out lines disconnected. Just a high pitched sound from the pump.
Could a faulty pump account for the SpeedLow I was getting on the inflight shutdown?
Next step to return the pump? Should I do this to my UK supplier, Ian Budgen at [link=http://www.modellbauuk.com]Modellbau UK[/link]?
Could a faulty pump account for the SpeedLow I was getting on the inflight shutdown?
Next step to return the pump? Should I do this to my UK supplier, Ian Budgen at [link=http://www.modellbauuk.com]Modellbau UK[/link]?
#18
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
Since you are in the UK, please go ahead and get in touch with Ingo at MTH, Modell Technik Hausl
Modell Technik Häusl
Brigitte Häusl
Weyerngasse 41
8720 Apfelberg
Austria
Tel. + 43 3512 71742
Fax + 43 3512 44339
Mail [email protected]
WWW www.modelltechnik.at
UID Nr. ATU479420008
Ingo has a first class service, he'll take care of you. Do tell him this is a new engine, new pump, and seems to be tight. This problem isn't frequent, but has happened from time to time.
Also, there's a quick fix authorized by KingTech factory, that is to make a fine adjustment by loosening the two front hex screws (coated in red) a tiny bit. I remember Dirk told me, while in pump test mode, loose them very slightly will make a big difference.
Good luck,
Barry
Modell Technik Häusl
Brigitte Häusl
Weyerngasse 41
8720 Apfelberg
Austria
Tel. + 43 3512 71742
Fax + 43 3512 44339
Mail [email protected]
WWW www.modelltechnik.at
UID Nr. ATU479420008
Ingo has a first class service, he'll take care of you. Do tell him this is a new engine, new pump, and seems to be tight. This problem isn't frequent, but has happened from time to time.
Also, there's a quick fix authorized by KingTech factory, that is to make a fine adjustment by loosening the two front hex screws (coated in red) a tiny bit. I remember Dirk told me, while in pump test mode, loose them very slightly will make a big difference.
Good luck,
Barry
#19
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
Thanks Barry. Loosened the hex screws and it didn't make any difference. I'll return it to Ingo. Cheers.
#20
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
Took 2.5 weeks to send, fix and get the pump back from Ingo. He repaired it as soon as he got it so can't complain about that. The plastic covering had been totally removed though. Would have thought that could have been reapplied to protect it? No matter. Will fly again this weekend and will hopefully get a full flight and no deadstick for a change.
#21
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
With all the recent bad weather in the UK this weekend was the first chance I got to fly my K140F Futura since I got the fuel pump back from repair. Three good flights although did have a shutdown on the last flight but I think that was due to a failsafe because the GSU didn't show an error for the last flight.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJObd7IuMo0[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJObd7IuMo0[/youtube]
#22
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
Attended a show yesterday and could not get the engine to start! Determined the fuel pump would not run. Tried to prime pump with the GSU and that would not work either. When I got home (after cursing quite a few times at a ruined day I had been waiting several months for) I connected the ECU lipo directly to the pump very briefly. Worked OK. After that I did two engine starts and was fine. Is the pump maybe not getting enough power during the start sequence?
Can someone also confirm if its OK to have the pump positioned horizontally? I've seen several other installs where this was the case. Ian (ModelbauUK) suggested it should be vertical. The filter is definitley mounted vertically. I did see guidance in the manual to suggest that.
Will be a while before I get to fly again but any advice on what can be done to prevent further start failures or engine shutdowns would be appreciated.
Can someone also confirm if its OK to have the pump positioned horizontally? I've seen several other installs where this was the case. Ian (ModelbauUK) suggested it should be vertical. The filter is definitley mounted vertically. I did see guidance in the manual to suggest that.
Will be a while before I get to fly again but any advice on what can be done to prevent further start failures or engine shutdowns would be appreciated.
#23
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
every install I've ever had the pump was horizontally mounted and I've never had a single issue.
if you're pump is working now after the jolt by the LiPo then chances are you had some FOD in the pump that was impeding its ability to turn at normal operation voltages. if it's a fairly new pump, it's not a bad idea to hook a AA cell battery to the pump and let it circulate fuel in a container till that battery is discharged, it 'breaks in' the pump.
if you're pump is working now after the jolt by the LiPo then chances are you had some FOD in the pump that was impeding its ability to turn at normal operation voltages. if it's a fairly new pump, it's not a bad idea to hook a AA cell battery to the pump and let it circulate fuel in a container till that battery is discharged, it 'breaks in' the pump.
#24
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
Great thanks. I'll do that. Absolutley cursing myself for not doing a test start earlier that morning. Typical bad luck when I least needed it.
#25
Thread Starter
RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown
Five 6 minute flights today and no problems. I think that confirms my engine issues are behind me. Hooray. Now just need to get the retracts sorted. Thanks.