Ladies and gentlemen we are our own worst enemy. Our government elected by the people started exporting our industry to China. Now the chickens come home to rost. The one thing Chineese ARFs have done for us is increase the number of RC pilots and thus kept this hobby alive and vibrant. Face facts please, the number of RC pilots who have never built an RC model exceeds those who are pilots and have built model airplanes. Also those who did not get wings left the hobby or are still trying. I have flown with are three types and I must say it is not my opinion it is fact. I stopped building models from kits thirty years ago and never looked back and along the way I managed to build two 1/4 scale aircraft from plans but to my dissmay the cost of material exceeded the cost of an ARF of the same model of plane. Don't believe me price the cost of balsa wood and aircraft grade plywood. One of the planes I built from plans was an Ayrees SR-2 crop duster and on numerous occassions I was asked who makes the ARF. See what I mean. The advent of foamies and park flyers also spurred more people to enter the ranks but IMO these planes have nothing to do with model airplanes. I feel the same way about electrics but for each his own. Our hobby in the near furture is going to go flat line along with the economy when our currency becomes worthless. One last thing to think about is the advent of gasoline engines but this is not new because this is how we started way back in our history of model aviation.

I sure am glad that skeet shooters don't get as worked up over their hobby as some of the toy airplane guys.

jess

I think I got caught up in the moment. Sorry all and GS.

I had half and hour to burn today and was wondering around my LHS (HobbyTown) and I found kits!!!!

They had probably about 30 kits by a few different makers including sailplanes.

Of course the high walls are stacked with ARF's and RC Trucks but if you look closer to the floor you can still find them!

I sadly have yet to build a kit but I really want to soon. I noticed they have a Goldberg Sophisticated Lady....Mmmmm

Hub Hobby in Richfield MN, still carries kits and lots of them.

The Hobby Town store opened and closed in less tha fifthteen months here in the high desert. The owner did not cater to the airplane people and appeared only into RC cars. Big mistake on his part due to Hobby People being in close proximity to his store.
Hobby People also caters to the RC car guys and there prices were much lower.

Not any problem DanMN ! I took no offense.

I ment to start a fire for people to learn all they can. We are all OLD TO SOON, but never to stop thinking for ourselves. Please guys learn all you can.

Sadly I just learned that I had lost Another Dear Old Friend (yes another modeler) a couple of days ago and had thought what a waste of knowledge if he had not passed it on to another. One of his old friends is Bill Carpenter of electronis ignition fame of which many here on RCU know and trust very highly.

If you don't mind I will share that message here, even though you didn't know him.

> From the Prez.
> It saddens me to inform you that Webb Higgins passed away Wednesday
> night in Billings due to complications from a car accident from 3
> weeks ago. He was surrounded by family and friends at the time of his
> passing. Service for Webb will be held Wednesday August 24 at 10:00
> am at the Methodist Church on 2nd Street and Bernard in Powell. All
> are welcome.

I shall miss him and his Stormer and Stormer Twin.

God Speed Webb.

Thanks All

the bulls$^& never ceases! kits at one time were all that were available ..so if you didnt build you didnt fly.yes builders are a highly respected group.I am glad that I got to build its extremely satisfying when a model makes it maiden flight having spent several months laboring .theres no shame in owning an arf either.some are very goodand lot of them are cheap crap.I wish there were more kits but ecomonics dictate otherwise and I'll say it again we brought on ourselves as a culutre and its likely things will never changeback.I never knock arfs but sadly I absolutely shudder at foam planes.it takes no skill or talent to produce a foamie.while great for cups I hate thinking about buying a plastic foam plane.the arfs that I have assembled and I said assemble not build are butt ugly.but if that gets you to support the hobby welcome..but come to top gun and scale masters and appreciate the skill and knowledge it takes to create a plane.otherwise lets just go flying and enjoy each others company.

oops!!! I think I meant the foam planes I have seen are but ugly lol arfs are nice dont beat me up..

I was just about to beat you up but you retracted your comment. Moving on to those who compete in the world of the scale masters they are a breed unto themselves. Very few make it to this elite club ever wonder why the same names keep poping up. It takes more than your ability to build and fly a prototypical scale model aircraft. It takes a major financial investment in time and labor. I knew of one individual who did make it to the top and that was Don Lien of California. The average modeler only wants a model thats looks real and is easy to fly. Take a look at what BH Models is presenting to the scale model enthuaist Their planes look great and could compete in stand-off scale. Now look at the ARFs ESM produces, there appearence is exceptional but they are flying bricks. I speak from experience since I have both types. ARFs have come a long way and don't forget without them you would see very little 3D airframes.

Fastback, get the Lady you wont be disappointed. Funny thing is I've gone in that store many times and never noticed any kits. All I see on the wall is a bunch of arf and park fliers, so I just ignore that aisle on my way to the balsa, covering, props, fuel, etc. Never thought to look on the floor, huh.... What else they got? I'd be happy to buy a kit there if it's something I like. Kinda gave up on them for kits, just look on the net now. Just got a Ninja and a Turbo, maybe looking for a floater now.
Scott

Get a scroll saw and some other balsa cutting and sanding tools. Make a building board. Get a plan and the appropriate sheets, sticks and blocks of balsa, plywood and hardwood. Make a copy of the plan, cut out the formers, ribs, firewall,etc. from the copy. Paste them to the appropriate wood for their construction. Cut your kit piece by piece out of this. Get all the other hardware and covering, glue, etc. With a lot of cutting and sanding, now you have a kit! This is definitely not a recipe for instant gratification! When you show up at the field with your creation, people will ask, "Where did you get that?" You can proudly say, "I got it one piece at a time."

If it weren't for ARF's this hobby would be a fraction of the size it is now and many products would not be available that are today because there would be no funds for R&D. Plus, even more hobby shops would be extinct. There is a place for kits, ARF's and everything else in the hobby.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...........this is the funniest post yet

VCScott: There by all the Robart stuff just on the other side of the props.

Was thinking about the Lady since all I have is that non-powered EasyStar but recently someone gave me a new half built slope plane. Havent figured out what it is but looks like a Moth.

Jason.

Please tell why you feel this post is so humorous. The points made are valid. Not to worry our hobby will dwindle when we fall into the coming depression.

Hey <span style="font-family: tahoma, verdana, arial; font-size: 11px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; ">summer wind </span><div><span style="font-family: tahoma, verdana, arial; font-size: 11px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; ">
</span></div><div><font face="tahoma, verdana, arial"><span style="font-size: 11px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">Maybe funny. But definitely true. If you can't understand this, you don't understand business.</span></font></div>

I'm not more pro ARF or PRO kit. To each his own. But if kits were more popular then ARF's their would be more kits available. Pretty simple.

hahahaha...struck a nerve did I?
taking a poke at ones name spells ignorance............i really thought your post was humorous............you newbies (probably one who waits here for the next reply too) have no idea how involved this hobby once was before the ARF international clubs started springing up everywhere...............BTW,

"summerwind" is the name that represents one of the most respected FAI F1C FF flyers in the world..........his design was a trend setter and the background for the last series Satellite competition FF series.......................

I stated in a previous reply that more people would rather fly than build. Very few full scale pilots build there own airplanes. This same applies to the average RC pilot. Notice I did not use the word modeler since that would imply they also build models. The only thing the RC pilot has do is assemble the ARF airframe and install the propulsion system and associated electronics. However in recent years with the introduction of PNP models even less is required to finish the aircraft. As one poster stated, all is in the marketing. Building from plans or a kit are not dead however very few individuals are doing it. I retired from the military and got a job with a company making and flying aerial targets for the military. The targets airframe were built in house and I would consider them an RTF when finished for the customer. Our government was aware of outside companies wishing to bid on USA military contracts and had a provision that required our end product be manufactured with 51% american made materials and labor. Our own government allowed the foreign importers of hobby related products to import there goods with no tariffs imposed. This is the major reason why our inhouse hobby industry declined. You can't compete with cheap labor no matter what you do. It has taken the Chineese less than forty years to take over the market. Presently we are being overrun by our neighbors to the South and this is not by accident. Only this time we are allowing the human traffic of cheap labor to invade us and our own government looks away.

<div>You didn't strike any nerves although it sounds like you might have reveled in the idea that you might have. I'm just stating how I see it. If you disagree then so be it. </div><div>
</div><div>Also, you assume I'm a newbie but know nothing about me, how old I am or how long I have been in the hobby. You know what they say when you assume.</div><div>
</div><div>I'm done.</div>

There is NO tariff It is a Canadian and American company that adds bogus brokerage fees on to their delivery charges. USPS does not and also the post office in China does not. Otherwise we pay some sales tax but hey we're all a bunch of whiners
BTW Ihave had several Americans express kind words to me indicating they appreciate my/our business when we do buy American stuff. We even buy Chinese stuff off American companies. But yes I can take my dollar somewhere else if you like.

Sorry just had to rant a bit.

Looking forward to the Americans coming up to our for real "expensive" environment to have an enjoyable float fly with us in about 3 weeks time.

Now back to kits of which I built a few, starting when I was 10. Then a long 40 year break(too busy with work and computers and finance)! Some of us aren't that proud of our kit built models for good reason. We're better with non-physical stuff.

LOL... That brings back memories. 1990 when I started flying, rc was hugely popular in my area. ARF's were new and few. Some days at field were like a horror show of ugly planes. Those guys were so proud of their work, it was fun to watch other guys twisted up trying to be polite and not hurt their feelings. Oh yea, look out when they attempted to fly their creations, you turned your back on the flight line at your own risk!
Scott

What's the big deal???? We ALL love to fly our planes!!! Why does it matter if ya kit build, scratch build or ARF it??? I'm an avid fisherman & hunter, but I DON'T build my own boat or gun !!! I think sometime people get soo full of themselves they can't beyond thier nose. If you enjoy this hobby, don't get your panties in a wad because the other guy does it different than you !!!!!

That's the thing. There is no deal.<div>We all have different interests. I don't go trashing someone for flying a model I don't like. Same goes for kit builders or ARTF flyers. The thread is about those who are upset that kits are no longer readily available. It feels like a major loss to the hobby as a whole. </div><div>When it comes to kits, I buy American and related, because it is more or less the only place to go. My ARTF's come from China. And they are not just cheapo foamies, but Great Planes models.</div><div>
</div><div>Why doesn't the US re-invest in kits, seeing as they have the backing and knowledge base? I've never seen one made in China, and certainly know that there is an obvious need to buy North American at this time.</div>