Tom,

Yep, Don sounds like a cool dude, and a good flying partner and neighbor.

I notice you're in Traverse City. I was up there in January of 2001, and in December of 2002. I was on my way to Petoskey to train at Continental Structural Plastics. It was the first time I flew commercial jets. I still work for CSP down here.

If my instructor changes his mind I might get a Tower Hobbies trainer.

I'll somehow find a way to keep you posted. I've enjoyed keeping RC universe company with you. Thanks for the info and advice.

elad

Don,

I'm not extremely familair with all the features of the Eagle, but I can tell that you changed the wire landing gear and added struts and wheel pants, and changed it from tricycle landing gear to a tail dragger. Is the wingspan wider, or does it just look like it in the picture?

Thanks for the reminder to run it a little rich. I'll be sure to get some pointers on that other than just what I've read about it. My instructor said I'll do maybe a hundred landings before I'm done training. I was glad he told me that because even the guys flying solos are sometimes having a hard time making good landing every time. My instructor lands like a professional. He is the club's official instructor and is an instructor for a commercial airline as well. After 9-11 he took a leave of absence for a few years and is attending college about 35 miles form here. One of the first things I asked him to do was show me a stall. I wnated to see how slow it would fly rather than how fast it would go. ha

Way down here we get snow once about every 2 or 3 years, but we have plenty of water to land on. I think I'll need a lot of landings under my belt before I get brave enough to try lake landings.

eald

Elad, If tou ever get back up here, give me a call. I live on the east approach to the TC airport. We could sit on my deck and watch airplanes all day. I'm sure we could also find time to do a little flying, and as our field is only a mile from Don's house you could see some of his "works of art."

Elad
i just added some balsa wing tips to it and faired in the fin so it looked older I had to add some "restructuring" wood to the inside as a result of a" ground swell " similar to a tsunami -commonly found near flying fields Im sure by now you have seen the results of one they are quick and very elusive so be sure that when you see someone flying low and slow that you warn them that they could be the next victim - eagles are the best trainer around the but hobbico trainers are ok Midwest aero star- sig lt 40- kadet senior
all are nice planes to learn to fly on -fly as much as you can while under your instructor fly every day! lots of flights! go over them with your instructor ! above all land land land and land some more
heres hoping you have blue skys -puffy clouds- steady 10 mph breeze down the runway
Don

Go to bed, Don. I can tell you're tired!

what on earth from?

Tom,

That sounds like a very enjoyable visit if I could pull it off. Thank you very much for the invitation.

I may have seen your house because I rubber necked as long as I had a view.

Usually, we are at the airport long enough to gather our luggage, get the rental van and take off to Petoskey. Generally we arrive at TC about 10:00 PM.

We are the plant working 8 or 9 hours and get to the hotel and shower then go eat out then see a movie or watch the idiot tube until we're bored to sleep. Everything we do after hours is by vote because we have one vehicle.

Once, when we were up there for 2 weeks, on our day off we drove up to the Knob Hill ski slope for about an hour, then went back to Petoskey and walked along the beach. All that was nice. I enjoyed the beach and found enough Petoskey Stones to fill a small grocery bag. Boy it was cold! And the wind was a steady 15 or 20 mph.

On our most recent trip, which lasted 4 days, on the way back to the airport we stopped at the beach at TC. This time I found a pocketfull of shells which I brought home. I enjoyed the sandy beach very much too. It wasn't as cold or as windy on the second trip.

The group consisted of about 8 to 12 people for each trip.

I don't know when, or even if anyone from here will be asked to go up there again. Right now we have someone from the Petoskey factory down here.

Anyway, If I do get up that way I'll sure let you know. It would be fun to go fly RC and visit with Don too. If nothing else we can shake hands at the airport and have a nice hot drink. If I come up there in the Summer there would be more time after work with daylight to play in.

I'll look up your e-mail address and put it in my address book.

elad

Don,

Thanks for the info. One of the first thoughts I had when I first glanced at the picture is that it looked like a much older plane than the Eagles I have been seeeing. I bet a kit builder could learn a lot by watching you work. It's amazing to me that you can do that with a model plane.

I'll keep in mind that you recommend the Eagle over the other brands.

Ya better watch out. Hollywood will be after you to build models for a movie.

Thanks again and take care.

elad

Tom,

I'm getting confused. I replied to this and posted it, but don't know why it isn't here. I guess there must be moe than one thread running on this subject. I noticed I am seeing the subject line on page one and other places too. maybe its gotten so far off topic that it doesn't need to stay where it began.



It's late even down here. I'll sort it out better tomorrow. My mush is trying to act like a brain.

elad

Elad, if you get to the TC airport at 10:00, my wife is usually standing on the deck watcying that flight land. My son works at the travel agency at the airport and is usually on duty at that time. I guess this doesn't have much to due with Eagle and four strokes does it? If I was going to buy an ARF trainer, I'd get the Eagle. There, we're back on track.

Elad
A kit to me is a box of wood and stuff with plans to make it like someone else wants it to look Its my kit and I will make it like I want it to look Ha! seriously though if you want your kit to look like something else- do it with -color- some fairing pieces -clip or extend a bay on the wing- round off or square up corners or edges-just try not to jump off a cliff to deep -If you keep approx the same sizes of sufaces and positions it should fly mostly the same- kit bashing is what its called -fun is what it is. for now fly that eagle two gallons in the next month you will be smilin then
don

HA HA HA HA,

Well, that's a sneaky way to get back on topic, Tom.

Is your wife watching to make certain the plane lands on the runway?

I did say 10:00 PM didn't I? The last trip, our arrival was around that time. The first trip we landed during daylight.

I went over to the local airport this evening thinking by chance some of the guys might be there. Some of them have told me they sometimes show up on Fridays. None today though.

I guess I should have let my instructor know I was able to show up. Maybe he would have been there. I was all set to flash him the dough for his Eagle, too. I guess I'll drop him an e-mail to confirm about the training session tomorrow.

I'm really in the dark about the quality issues in different brands of planes. I've heard some say that trainers all do basically the same thing. I am guessing the differences in quality would come from the differences in the wood chosen, the quality of the hardware, the instruction manual and maybe the amont of throw that's given for the control surfaces.

I've heard more than once that Eagle is the best trainer out there. I sure like the looks of the one I've been training on, and it flies nicely too.

The lowest price I've seen on a RTF is the Hobico SuperStar Select MK II. It is a size 40 if I'm not mistaken. It weighs in at around $280.00 for the plane already assembled, the motor, a Futaba 4 channel radio and three choices of color schemes. The motor, the OS LA 40, is one of the lowest priced engines available for it's size. I'm not bashing the LA series because I don't know much about them and because I'm sure there are some that have run for several years. The plane is supposed to assemble in about 20 minutes.

If for some reason my instructor doesn't want to sell the Eagle, the Hobico is a temptation for the price.

The weather down here is getting several degrees cooler and a cool front is supposed to come in very soon. If it stays around, our Summer will end sooner than normal. I don't really look for that to happen.

elad

Elad:

With all this reversed spelling of names, like Elad Somath am I going to have to change mine to Yllib Nosibor? Haw.

Trainer. ARF. Hard to beat the RCM trainer 40 from HobbyPeople. Currently on sale for $120, and the Magnum XLS 40 for $60 more. $180 so far.

At this point we blow the budget. If you get that RTF package you will spend less money, but you will quickly outgrow the included radio. So, as I said, here we blow the budget.

Don't consider anything less than six channel, and make sure channel six is proportional, not just a two or three position switch.

Candidates:
Futaba 6YG. Complete system, plain jane, $150 complete.
Futaba 6EXA. Late design, $30 more, at $180 for digital trims, 6 model memory, a lot of other nice features.
Futaba 6XA. This one, at $230, is the one I recommend. A lot of pre-programmed mixes, and mixes you can program, works on both PPM and PCM, just a good all-round radio. And this set you will not outgrow. At least until you want eight or nine channels, anyway.

So. While your $280 RTF will get you flying, I'm afraid you will regret having gotten the four channel radio. And as I have shown, going to six channels doesn't have to be expensive.

Llib. (Haw.)

EDIT: Lousy math. wr.

He's right about the radio. I'm still using the Futaba 6 channel radio that I started out with 13 years ago. Ultimately, the decision is up to you. Don't spend more money than you have, but spend wisely. About the weather. The high up here today was 62. Yesterday, when Don and I went flying, it was 80.

llib,

Cehck tihs out for splelnig and raedalibity! ha

I got an e-mail today that said it didn't matter much if words were spelled correctly as long as the letters were all there and that the first and last letters were in the right place. The funny thing is that it wasn't until I had read most of it that I realized that almost every word was scrambled like eggs.

My instructor nearly demands I get a Futaba. That's because it matches his radio and he uses a buddy cord. That's great to my way of thinking. He recommended the 6YA. At my first club meting they gave me a catalog. I had picked the 6EXA from the catalog because it is slightly programable and has exponential controls. They told me at the meeting that exponential control was a good thing to have. At the time I thought the 6XA was a little overkill. It has a lot of bells and whistles that I didn't know if I would ever grow into the need for having. It's very possible I just don't know. In any event I can't see ever wanting a Heli.

My instructor might sell me his Eagle II. I don't know what all accessories will come with it yet. I'm sure he uses a 6 channel radio, but I'm sure it's one of the ones with fewer features. He showed me the servos inside the plane. He built it with a redundant control system for safety. He likes to use solder clevises on the control horns. His Eagle was built from a kit instead of ARF. I'm thinking he probably added extra reinforcements in critical areas.

I'm not sure what PPM and PCM are. I'm guessing those are 2 ways to modulate the transmitter frequency. If that's it I still don't know why there are 2 methods and what would make one useful in one application and the other mode in another. Please enlighten me on this if you have the time.

elad samoht

actually samoht elad if ya want to be really technical

Don,

From the pictures of planes you've sent me I believe you definitely have the right idea.

If I stay with this hobby long enought to get into building kits I will very surely remember your suggestions.

elad

Elad:

I was just keeping the "Front" name in front. And we're both "Nacirema" people, so what the heck.

Pulse Position Modulation and Pulse Code Modulation are just two different ways of encoding the informatrion sent by the transmitter, as you supposed. And being technical, neither can properly be called "Frequency Modulation" since no modulation is done - the correct term is "Frequency Shift Keying." That brings us to another misunderstood term: "Shift." You will hear "Negative Shift" and "Positive Shift." This refers to the frequency shift being to a higher or lower frequency. Not to worry about if you keep the same brand tx and rx, or be sure to get the correct version of a different brand. Some rigs will let you select positive or negative shift, and coming on the market now are rx circuits that will work with both shifts.

Back to the PPM and PCM. The PPM has a constant stream giving each channel information in a serial format, while the PCM encodes all channels in a digital word, effectively giving a much higher data rate. In addition, if the PCM rx gets a corrupted word it will ignore it, and can be set to several different actions in case it loses the data stream. This is referred to as "Fail Safe," but that's so much bs. There is no such thing as total loss of control being safe. Set it to neutralize the controls and chop the throttle, then if you get your tx back on the air you might save it, but at least the plane wont go in at full speed.

And finally, PCM makes your rx cost two to three times as much as a PPM rx. Everytrhing else is the same.

Bill.

In other words get an FM radio.

Elad:

TomC summarized my long post in four words. "...get an FM radio."

But I still add to that, get at least a SIX channel FM radio. And if you can swing the bucks get the Futaba "Super Six," the 6XA. or at least the 6EXA, since it's only $30 more than the plain jane.

Bill.

Besides the two extra(and useful) channels, you get a fourth servo that you would have to purchase. So it doesn't really cost much more.

Elad what they are telling you is -keep it simple -go learn to fly -pmost of all have fun most of the fialures i have seen with new poeple was every thing got too copmlex and expensive and with the first or second ding on thier plane the interest eraporates listen to your instructor follw his "suggestions " get off the computear -go fly
nod

You're noD'n alright. moT

lliB, moT & noD,

I'd rather be "Nacirema" than anything else. Actually ya got me on that one lliB, until I opened my "Yranoitcid" and it wasn't included. ha ha ha ... And you're right, what the heck?

When I was young a kid I sat in Study Hall and wrote things from right to left incursive making all the letters going the wrong way while I was at it. Now I'm an old kid and I'm still doing things backwards. The only thing different now is the keyboard doesn't cooperate like handwriting will.

I think some of the FM jargon stuck with me from the days when I was l lot more active in Ham radio. Although I forgot the "FSK" believe it or not I understand about the PPM & PCM well enough. I couldn't repeat it exactly, but I could paraphrase it. Thanks for the information and clarification.

AM users are mostly overseas if I recall correctly. Anyway, FM it will be. I'm not sure what I'd use the other 2 channels for in the future exactly. One thought is to use flaps. I am guessing that servo mixing and programming would be required for flaps. And another channel could be used for dropping a parachute or bombs, or for shooting guns and other playthings. What am I missing? " .. _ _ .. "


And I'll get off the computer and have some other kinds of fun. This afernoon I'll go to the airport and get a flying lesson. Then sometime today get my sister's cell phone programmed and write up the condensed version of how she can use its features and start getting text and e-mail messages on it. Silly pocket phones these days do a lot more than is really needed.

See you guys later tonight maybe, ...-.-

elaD

elad, Alot of people use the other channel for retracts. You're not doing everything backwards. I don't see you asking if a giant scale warbird would make a good first airplane. Some people want to run before they can walk.

Elad:

Yrros, I thought Nacirema would be obvious, at least in txenoc. Edgar Allen Poe used "Gnitirw rorrim" as a plot element, but I'm not remembering the story name.

Standard assihnment for channel five is retract control, only on the most expensive radios is channel five proportional. Channel six, though, can be used for anything you wish provided it is proportional.

And there is the difference between the really cheap six channel rigs and the better ones.

Just as five "Is" retracts, six "Is" flaps. The cheap ones will have a three position switch, for up, half, and full. With full proportional control it can be mixed with channel one giving "Flaperons," for example. Or mixed with the elevator AND ailerons for better 3D. This requires the airplane having the capability also, of course.

The three Futaba suggestions I made all have proprotional control on channel six.

Bill.

PS: QSK IMI. wr.