I'm new to R/C and not yet a kit builder but thought that kit builders could help me. I'm getting flight instructions using an Eagle 2 KIT, but am ordering an Eagle 2 ARF to use in further training and to use alone after I solo.
A product ordering web site has a technical note advising that a 4 stroke engine is not recommended for the Eagle 2 ARF.
A tech note on a different web site recommends both 2 stroke and 4 stroke engine sizes for the Eagle 2 KIT. Are there structural differences that will not allow 4 stroke engines to be used successfully with the ARF version of the Eagle 2?
Thanks in advance,
elad

from http://www.carlgoldbergproducts.com/eagle2.htm

.29-.45 2-Cycle
.46-.50 4-Cycle

I would stick with a light 2 stroke on this one. It is not very heavy, and a good .46 will be plenty, but you could go lower without problems.

Why do you want to get the same plane you trained on? You might get bored. A Tiger 2 may be a better way to go. It will have more performance but still easy enough to fly for a new pilot. It can be had for about $170. I would go with a Thunder Tiger .46 Pro for this one.

Thanks for the reply.

The site you gave the link to is the KIT version and is the same one where I got the 2 and 4 stroke engine sizes. The site where I read that a 4 stroke engine is not recommended is in the technical notes section at Tower Hobbies and is for the ARF version.

One plane is from a KIT and the other is an ARF. I don't have the experience to know if there is a difference. I tend to not take anything for granted when I'm new to a subject. Hence, my confusion.

The reason I want the same plane that I am training on is for a security blanket, and to get enough experience after I solo to feel confident in more varried flying conditions such as weather changes (wind, humidity, temperature, etc.) over a longer period of time.

I am brand new to the hobby and haven't asked enough questions to know how long I'll have access to my instructor or if he's willing to stick with me through learning to fly several models, or if that will even be necessary. Instruction time takes away from his flying time too.

The president of the club I just joined said that after I solo I will have access to each plane that is owned jointly by the club. They have enough planes to keep me from getting bored too soon, I hope. After I finally get bored with all those planes, I can get something the club doesn't already have. Model commercial airliners look interesting.

The real reason I want the 4 stroke is because being close to a 2 stroke engine while tuning it makes me a little nervous, even when it has a muffler. The 4 strokes have a much more realistic and soothing sound. And thinking ahead, if I get a large enough 4 stroke engine, without overpowering the Eagle, I'll have more options of planes to use the 4 stroke in later on.

Elad:

And that statement makes me nervous. If the soothing sound of the 4c engines calms you down, avoid them. Get nice and calm, you get nice and complacent. Then careless. And then we call you "Nine-finger Jack."

In the sizes up to an 0.80 or 0.90 the four strokes are rather specialized, they are a lot heavier than the same size two stroke, and they don't have the power either. Even from 0.80 up to about 1.20 the 4c engines have a weight penalty, but in that range they're a lot easier to use.

Being relatively new I would strongly suggest you stay with the 2c engines until you go over the 1.0 size engines.

And get a few low wing sport planes under your belt before you go into scale transport aircraft. They will be adding too many new things at once, multi engines and high wing loading just for two. Your probability of success wouldn't be too high.

If you just want to jump right into twins that's another matter. But do get at least one sport plane mastered first.

Then get a Twin-Air 45 for your first twin. Aerobatic twin, and it's still a nice easy plane to fly with an engine out.

And there is why you should have more experience before even the simplest twin. Until you are truly familiar with the care and feeding of the engines, and keeping them running, you can turn an expensive plane into a pile of match sticks a lot faster with even the easiest flying twin than with a single.

And the final reason I'll give for staying with a 2c engine while learning: when you make a major error, either with the engine adjustments or the operation of the airplane, the destruction of an $80 two stroke engine hurts a lot less than ruining a $300 four stroke.

Bill.

Bill,

Thank you for the reply, the information and your concerns. You gave me a lot to think about. That's appreciated, especially the personal safety reminder

As far as my personal safety is concerned, "Nine Finger Jack" ha, if I had to use a 2 stroke wirhout a muffler I am very certain I would be safer with the 4 stroke. The stomach jitters from tne sound would be too disturbing for me to use an un-muffled 2c engine. I just wouldn't run the motor, or fly, naturally. But, having been near a .46 2 stroke with a muffler I could concentrate on keeping my fnigers out of the way. And the 4 stroke isn't so calming that I would forget about the spinning prop. After all, I have worked in heavy industrial environments doing maintenance work part of that time and have kept all my fingers and toes, so far. But, I very much appreciate the concern and the thought.

I realize the 4c engines are heavier, but I have to admit I haven't researched the exact weight differences between the 2c and the 4c, but I did notice that the displacement differrence was about a factor of 2 to get about the same power. I also didn't know that the 4c engines in the size ranges you noted were specialized. I'm not sure how that applies. Does that mean they are built for a specific load? I was thinking about a .52 or a .70 Surpass for a 4c engine in the Eagle 2. I thought that anything bigger would be too heavy for the plane's easy balancing. I also haven't looked at the sizes of 4c engines required for different planes. The .52 and the .70 cost about $170. to $190 if memory serves correctly. Still that's a lot extra to pay just for a bit more realistic sound if reallistic soud was my only concern.

I have picked up that it's better for a 2c engine to run it more to the rich side of tuning, but I didn't know it was more critical for a 4c.

My club has some mid wing and low wing planes for me to make the transition from trainer upward in difficulty. Since I have no idea of the proper progression, I'm glad to have the steps outlined on the way toward the airliner I mentioned.


I'll save your e-mail in a folder for further reference.

Thank you again for the input,

elad

Elad:

When I said the smaller 4c engines were "Specialized," my meaning was that they require "Special consideration" due to their lower power to weight ratio, not that you had to be a specialist to use them. There are many smaller planes designed for the smaller 4c engines, and they fly very well.

But I really think you'll be happier with the 2c performance in your first several planes.

If you really want to go 4c do it. But do it knowing what you're going into.

However you proceed, it's a hobby, intended to be enjoyed, so use what pleases you. And yes, the 4c engines do sound better. Just wait until you hear a radial engine.

Bill.

My Eagle 2 balances perfectly with an OS-40LA, which is a rather light engine. A 4-stroke is heavier and you will probably need to mount it further forward to allow room for the throttle linkage. With a 4-stroke you will need to add quite a bit of tail weight. The 4-stroke/Eagle will be a heavier (and therefore faster) airplane - not really good qualities for a trainer.

I think you will become rather bored with the Eagle 2 fairly quickly after you solo (I did). You might consider a Goldberg Tiger 2 instead of the second Eagle 2. It is an easy transition from a trainer and quite a bit more capable.

Bill,

Thanks for another reply.

o, k, I'm glad I was reading you right about specialized meaning the puropses for the 4c engines. It didn't even occur to me that you meant they needed specialized training to be able to use them. So we were on the same page there.

I am getting some information too, that the Eagle ll would need extra reinforcement of the fuse and motor mount with maybe even some neoprene sandwiched between the motor and the mount to help absorb vibration so the 4c won't break the plane over a period of time.

I'm not sure I'm up to that.

I'm thinking I might do well to either look for a plane designed for a 4c engine that could also serve as a trainer, or, just get one of the 2c engines as you recommended.

Oh well, back to the catalogs for more research.

Thanks for the insights Bill,

elad

The Tiger 2 idea is a good one. They make a great second plane. A friend has worn out two of them and is planning a third . He figured he has 32 gal. of fuel thru his second one. Easy to build and to fly.

JPMacG,

Thank you for the information.

Not having previous experience I will take all the ideas I can get.

It will retain your tips it for future reference.

Thanks again and good luck,

elad

Tom,

Wow! 32 gallons of fule in the same plane. That almost sounds like a marrige.

One thing for sure, your friend loves the Tiger. Another is that the plane sure must not be boring. And he wants another one too.

Thanks for the information. I'll look up the Tiger.

elad

Elad, he also built a Tiger 60 into a twin. As far as a marriage goes, the last one lasted longer than his exwife.

http://www.carlgoldbergproducts.com/eagle2arf.htm

Sorry for the incorrect link. Here it is for the Eagle 2 ARF. It has the same engine information as the kit version. A 4 stroke would not be a problem.

I am installing a Saito .56 4 stroke in a Sig 4*40, and it was not nearly as easy as a 2 stroke would have been. I had to do a lot of thinking, posting here and modifications to make it work correctly. I had this engine on a stick beefore this and it is sweet!

Back to the 2 stroke engine... I have an OS .46 FX on a Sig LT-40. It is easily enough engine for this plane, and it is a bit larger then the Eagle 2. I would go with a light/small 2 stroke for the following reasons - 1. Better weight and balance 2. Better instalation.

But, I would also go with the Tiger 2 instead of the Eagle 2!

Good luck!

Tom,

Speaking of twins and marrage:

My dad-in-law liked to let people hear him tell my mom-in-law that when she turned 40 he was going to trade her in for 2 20s.

But, she finally grounded that flight when one day she siddled up to him and said in a vioce that was low, but heard by everyone in the room, "Honey you ain't wired for 2 20s."

elad

Elwood,

Thanks for the link. I bet it took a long time to find the exact site for that information. Thanks for the effort.

Good on the Saito with the .56 in the 4*40. I hear Saito is one of the best around. My club recommended using a 2c .46, but when I mentioned I would like to have a 4 stroke for the sound they told me about the Surpass brand. I was thinking the .52 for cost. It's higher than a 2c but in a reasonable (to me anyway) price range for a 4c. They also mentioned that the 4c would work well in the 4*40.

Naturally I've looked at the gasoline engines and the multi cylinder jobs, but that's only dreaming.

I'll have to look up this Tiger 2 and see what it's all about. Lots of flyers are telling me it's a good second plane.

Thanks again, Elwood,

elad

Elad
go for that four stoke 52 size saito or OS are excellent choices for the eagle The tiger 2 or the 4star all good planes -And yes I actually do have 30 odd gallons of fuel in my tiger2 they dont get any simpler or better flying than this- they do what you tell them they stay where you put them -I prefer tail draggers but the trikes land better- the only thing i change on the kit is for servos in the wing for ailerons (the torque tubes get sloppy after while and you get soft flutter in straffing runs or "powered desent" - go fly -have fun
Don

Don,

Thanks for the post and the fine picture of your super nice looking planes. A neat trick, the twin engine conversion.

Oh yeah,,, I especially like the landing gear on that model in the upper right hand corner of the shot.

This forum is great. I read through it before I joined, looking for information on the subject I had a question about. Not finding that exact info I asked for specific information, got responses from all over the place, heard many good ideas, and got sound advice from both sides from 2 stroke and 4 stroke proponents.

It's good that there are choices in engine designs and airplane models. Each seems to fill a need. Having more choices is better than having only one thing to pick from.

After switching my thinking a time or two I've decided to not be frozen in indecision. I'll order all my stuff today. I'll get the Eagle II with a good 4 stroke and get a few extra tubes of CA to reinforce around the motor mount and fuse where needed.

The more I've been with my flying club and around the 2 stroke engines the more I've gotten used to the sound. The jitters I first experienced from getting close to the 2 strokes are decreasing with time. In fact, there's one 2 stroke engine that I particularly enjoy hearing while it's flying. I think the owner said it was a K&B engine. I think I'll eventually overcome my mini-fobia of two strokes and might even get one for the Eagle II after I get a second plane to use the 4 stroke in.

Thanks again Don,

elad


Keep your planes aerobatic, not acrobatic. ---------- elad

elad
those nice "struts" belong to my girl friend yes they do make landings softer but after two wifes a guy really aught to learn good luck with the eagle -go fly have fun and remember the blue part of the horizon is up

Did you notice Don posts a picture with his girlfriend and his two airplanes, but he cuts off MY red Speedster?

Tom,

My e-mail had it's servos reversed the last few days or I would have gotten back sooner.

Yep, Don just shows us what he wants us to see. ha It's easy to see he's a lucky flier, and skilled too. Nice "struts" all the way around.

elad


Keep your planes aerobatic, not acrobatic. ------ elad

Don's like that, you know. By the way, the landing gear on the twin is from the Top Flight DC3. Pretty smart that Don. Don't tell him I said it tho. Don't want it to swell his head!

Here's apic of my Speedster.

OOOoooooohhh Weeeeeee!

You guys sure have nice planes. (and landing gear)

Tom, You put both Don's planes in your pic on the same day that he put only half of your plane in his pic. What does that say about the 2 of ya?

Yhea, I see Don's a smart feller. If you won't tell him I said so, I won't tell him you said so.

I hate to admit it, but I've changed my mind again. I've had two training flights on the Eagle II. It belongs to my instructor actually. I think he might want to sell it. After being hindered a day in ordering my stuff and taking time to do some specification comparisons and recalling all the advice I got on this forum, I'm thinking that if the plane I started training on is still for sale this weekend I'll get it instead of a new one. It looks like new, flies nicely, has plenty of power, is put together neatly with nice strong servos, is priced better than a new one and comes with a first rate instructor.

I'm finding that I'm getting used to the 2 stroke engines by spending more time around them and my stomach jitters are decreasing each time exponentially. I might want to get something later that has that mellow 4 stroke sound, so if I stay with the hobby I'll find something I can't live without later on and spend the big bucks then. By doing it that way I might even get the wife to give me a RealFlight simulator this Winter.

I like the looks of some of the giant planes and have always been sort of partial to the looks of bi-planes. There's so many good ways to go in the hobby, there's probably too much to pick from. That's one of the better problems to have.

Anyway the best part is being around like minded guys. I guess that's the most enjoyable part of any hobby.

elad

Keep your planes aerobatic, not acrobatic. ----- elad

elad, Don gave me a RealFlight when he upgraded to the newer version. There isn't much he wouldn't do for a person. I think you would be wise to buy your instructor's Eagle. Save your money until you learn more about what you might want, and then go out and buy that Tiger!. Have fun and let us know how your flying experience is coming along.

elad
sounds like the eagle is a good deal - I have no preferences as to motors just remember to run them a little rich and they will last a long time -fly the ever luvin begeebers out of that eagle- slow -fast - and -lots -lots- lots of landings then you will be ready for most any nice aiplane as your second - barring anything silly of course- sent pic of my first eagle after some "re-engineering" - they are nice float flyers or ski planes if you live in snow country