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Where have all the builders gone

Old 02-10-2015, 06:37 AM
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oh, I did not realize this was a bash the ARF thread. I/we have built ARF's though by the time we are done we have redesigned all the major components. I have in the rafters arf's for a dewotine, and a p-36. those are planes I would never ever build (and still may not, but the potential is there) my present ARF is a Macchi 200, another plane I would have never built. I can do it quick and cheaply, so it fits very well into the build plan. though with the tail wheel redesign, and the usual LG mount removal and redesign it still will save time.

saves time for the Holman me190 f I seam to be working on for ever. its at rivits and panel lines, then the engine was ripped out and I need to replace it with electric.
Old 02-10-2015, 09:26 AM
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Used is the Least Expensive way to go .... Just 2 days ago I bought a
1. very Large profile thick wing 3D plane "Lectric" with Tyrnigy R6364 motor 80 amp turnigy 6 to 12 cell speed control 4 6s 5000 Mah batts
Spectrum receiver w/ satellite and all servos
2. a 68" Yak 54 with big electric motor speed control 2 5s 5000 MaH bats spectrum reciver digital Hi tourk MG servos pull pull rudder RTF after charge
3 the one I wanted a Ultra Stick LITE with Futaba 3010 servos 2 batts Dle 30 with 3 tanks of gas thru it a 7000 w/ SAT spectrum reciver that I sh{t canned all for $900 Cash
OH OH OH I for got the little Blue FA-18 Foam ducted fan jet w/ Batt Receiver SC Ready to fly as soon as I get a good receiver in it ... Speckey Junk U Know.

Now at prices like that Why should I build. especially when i hate it and CA hates me.
Already sold the profile for $250 and the and it's motor / speed controll for another $100 I really got $0 for the 7000 w SAT
Now if I sell the Yak and the FA-18 I'll get the Ultra lite w/ New DLE 30 for less than $150
No Brag Just Fact .....Now if I liked to build this would not be a factor But RCU for Sale and Swap meets and auctions exist for the The people with NO SKILLS and just like to fly
...
side note the seller made a remark this will get me 6 hours in a C172 man that a long ways away from the $10 wet and $5 for the instructor When I started my ratings in 1970.
Old 02-10-2015, 11:20 AM
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Like all threads of this type on RCU they start out just fine and always turn into an ARF vs KIT vs PLANS vs SCRATCH, nothing new about it.
Hobby shops haven't helped the builder much these days. I had a great shop here in Vegas and for several years I would go there once a week. The owner was a builder at one point and flew all the time at the different fields, he knew most of us and knew what we were flying so he kept items we would need in stock.
When he sold the store that all changed. The new owner moved it to a smaller building and runs it much differently, it's now stocked like most other shops but he does stock some, not much, of the building supplies I need.
He had a falling out with SIG?? The original owner was on the phone with SIG three times a week placing orders but now we can't even get any of the SIG products off the shelf. Glues and epoxy choices are now slim, even his selection of props for glow or gas are slim.
I'm lucky to have two other stores close by so I hit all three when I go to that side of town. Hobby People has a few things, Hobby Town also has a few things so sometimes I luck out, not often but sometimes. Now I do most of my shopping on line.
The really bad thing is these stores hire people off the street so there is zero help for anyone. I had one fellow that didn't even know what a motor mount was??
Last night I went into the CLASSIC PATTERN forum where people are still building there planes, they have a URL just for builds you can go to to see how and what other builders are doing. None of these builds are in the kit building forum. They are building from kits and plans. One of the fellows even puts some plans into JPG so you can download them for your own use. Some years ago he sent me a couple of them. Of course these are old pattern planes so it isn't for everyone but if you look around there are some nice builds still happening here on RCU.
Too bad ARFs were even mentioned in the first place in this thread, it always makes the thread go in a different direction.
Old 02-10-2015, 12:23 PM
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Nice read Grey. I use to go to Jet Hanger hobbies in Lakewood Cali and new Larry Wolf for years. He was builder and had everything I needed . And I would get my wood from Superior aircfraft supply down the road about a mile . I miss both of those places . I don't think there is a full service hobby shop left

now that live just North of the St. Louis I havn't found a half way decent HB here
Old 02-10-2015, 06:29 PM
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I was still in Huntington Beach when Hobby People opened there doors so it was only a couple blocks away, it had nothing but kits and building supplies at that time with the walls full of anything a modeler would need. I just got there sales catalog today and other then fuel there is nothing I can use. On top of that with Hobby King having a warehouse here in the states I can get most anything HP sells for a lot less money.
I understand the why of it all but hobby shops was mentioned in an earlier post. Hobby People at least still sell balsa and I can get epoxy there. I buy all my CA at a wood workers supply place that is on the way to the LHS, HP sells it in an 8 ounce bottle but it's cheaper and fresher at the wood place. Hobby Town has a little of the SIG products in stock but it's cheaper to buy directly from SIG even with the shipping.
I only built one plane this year and did repairs on several others, just about have everything finished and ready to fly as of today so I will be out flying again this week. It's in the mid 70s and fantastic out already, can't let this Spring weather go to waste!!
Old 02-10-2015, 06:38 PM
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Yes, SIG is doing well apparently! I was in touch with them, they answered almost instantly my e-mail, and I had to buy some parts for a Rascal 110 which I purchased at a flea market (new but with some small stuff missing). It is the old Rascal 110 (no flaps). They had all the parts I needed except the struts (which I will build if my back order does not arrive in time).

I got very good, if not exceptional service. In 3 days (regular mail shipping) I had all my goodies here:-)

I always liked SIG but I Iike the 1/4 scale Cub from Balsa USA better (recently I sold the SIG j-3), still have my BUSA one, over 2 decades old now.)

Gerry.
Old 02-10-2015, 10:25 PM
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Ok so some people don't like building. Others prefer to spend their time assembling ARTFs or buying complete models which others have built and then flying them. You can certainly pick up second hand models very cheaply and if cost is an important factor to you, carry on doing what you're doing, no-one will censure you for it. The time and money saved by buying ready-made, people spend on doing something else including raising families and going to work. Should they severely damage a model, these fliers tend to throw them away and I don't blame them! Many of the better-made ARTFs are an intricate intersection of CNC cut parts which produce a strong yet very light aircraft. You don't see lots of 1/2" balsa block in the noses of modern ARTFs whereas the classics of yore were made strong and tough because, inter alia, the radios were so unreliable.

Building is time consuming and some would say, anti-social, furthermore, you may not save much money when you add up the total cost of all of the materials, glues etc and certainly, buying second-hand airframes is a lot cheaper than the cost of building your own. However, I find building therapeutic, I like choosing my own colour schemes on sports models so that I have a model which is perhaps unique and not the same as everybody else's. This is important to me and while I own a couple of ARTFs and a few models which other people have built, I get much more satisfaction out of flying something which I have made out of a bunch of balsa sticks and sheets, than I do out of flying something which someone else has built, however expertly. At the moment I am completing repairs on a Chris Olsen "Uproar," an aerobatic model dating from 1958, and finishing off a Vic Smeed "Pushy Cat," vintage models both, and I'm enjoying every minute of the process. I have a Green Air Albatros DV ARTF up in the loft but cannot work up much enthusiasm to finish it.

Brief rider to the above. I found out many years ago that Baron Manfred von Richtofen, the so-called Red Baron and the most successful fighter pilot of the Great War, shot down and killed a man with the same name as me. My namesake was flying a BE2e at the time. Where can I buy an ARTF BE2e from? Even if I could buy one, would it be in the same markings as that of my namesake? Highly unlikely. As a result I am in the process of building a 1/6 scale replica from a short-kit produced by a British kit cutter but the process has stalled because I am also trying to sell my house and to retire to France.

Happy Landings Gentlemen.
Old 02-11-2015, 07:13 AM
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I think the perfect word for building has just been said. Therapeutic. Described it perfectly. Flying is fun, being together with others who fly is fun, but building has that special thing about it, where you get to let your mind drift off, and just build something. I lost my job a couple weeks back, so in between job hunting and other things, I am finding time to go down to my shop and just work on my planes. It relaxes me, and helps me get away from the worries that are upcoming if I dont find work soon. It helps me because all I think about then is building, how should I do this, where should I put that, and since its a kit bash, its more than just looking at the manual and placing parts, I am making parts and putting them in places not on the plans, redesigning certain portions to make it work. So far its all coming together nicely.
Old 02-11-2015, 07:22 AM
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I am also trying to sell my house and to retire to France.

Happy Landings Gentlemen.[/QUOTE]

Let's start another controversy Pray tell us, Why in the world, would an Englishman want to retire with the Frenches?
Old 02-11-2015, 07:28 AM
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I wasn't going to go there, however.......................... Hope you dont choke trying to speak french. (Steve Martin joke)
Old 02-11-2015, 07:50 AM
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Reasons for retiring to France

1. The weather's better.
2. In the area I intend to move to, the houses are 50%-70% cheaper, plus I'll probably be down-sizing.
3. The wine's much cheaper.
4. According to those who've moved there, the cost of living can be cheaper.
5. The local model flying club has better facilities and the fees are less than those of my British club.
6. Quant a lange je ne parle pas francais couramment mais j'espere faire une ameliaration.
Old 02-11-2015, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Telemaster Sales UK
Reasons for retiring to France

1. The weather's better.
2. In the area I intend to move to, the houses are 50%-70% cheaper, plus I'll probably be down-sizing.
3. The wine's much cheaper.
4. According to those who've moved there, the cost of living can be cheaper.
5. The local model flying club has better facilities and the fees are less than those of my British club.
6. Quant a lange je ne parle pas francais couramment mais j'espere faire une ameliaration.
Sounds like Napoleon won the war!

Bruce
Old 02-11-2015, 11:44 AM
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Anywhere but Obamaland is better from the sounds of it. GL with the move! Really dont know if speaking French is less painful, but they will always detect that British accent there. Sure would like to know if the rumors are true on how they treat foreigners who move there. Could be worse, could be Canada!
Old 02-11-2015, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by landeck
Sounds like Napoleon won the war!

Bruce
No he didn't he bit off more than he could chew though it was "a damned near run thing!"

As for how the French treat foreigners, it depends who you speak to. The English have been the traditional enemy of the French so some will hold that against you, and some don't like any immigrants. The area where I will be settling is rapidly losing population because its very rural and there's little work for the younger people so some of the locals are delighted to sell their surplus houses to the British, Dutch and Belgians. All I can say is that it helps if you can speak the language, most French people appreciate you making the effort, and I do a bit of open mike stuff and went down well at a couple of sessions.

Finally I got on very well at the local model flying club where I helped them to move their safety barriers five metres further away from the flight line prior to their staging of one of the rounds of the French National Aerobatic Championship. http://berrymarchemodelisme.free.fr/...nat%20f3a.html
Old 02-11-2015, 03:00 PM
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Therapeutic is a nice way of putting it. When I'm building, using wood and glue, I can only listen to classical music to sort of set the mood and help relax my mind and thinking process but when I'm covering I go right back to rock. For some reason once the wood working part is over I don't require the relaxation so much? The covering just seems to happen on it's own.
I have a couple of acquaintances here in Vegas that have summer homes in the south of France. A lot of people here have second homes they go to during the summer, the heat birds all take off around May. The ones that go to France love it there. Yes, they are quite wealthy but if you got it spend it.
Myself, I moved here for the hot dry weather and enjoy it.
Old 02-11-2015, 04:36 PM
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Thats pretty cool!
Old 02-11-2015, 04:59 PM
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My Problem with "Where have all the builds gone" Is not that people use building as a relaxing hobby but it seemed that builders exude an air that they were "BETTER" than the average R/C Flyer because the build or have skills others do not have.. I apologize if My perception is/was wrong ... But if U read the back pages U should be able to see how one might get this perception. It's not that i don't any builders. I Have several friends that are excellent Builders and 2 that are in the AMA Hall of fame for their building skills and other things.

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Old 02-11-2015, 06:42 PM
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Rcscalebuiders all kinds of builders and machinists. It's not like the common forum you contribute 20$ to support the site. It a great forum!
Old 02-11-2015, 09:59 PM
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There is a forum for almost everyone doing almost everything in RC too. If your not a builder there are still many forums you can visit that will pip your interest. I was given a lot of help in the RC Boat forum and the float/sea plane forum. I know next to nothing about electric power so when I have a need for knowledge I go to the wattflyer site. That's another good site with some very nice people.
Old 02-11-2015, 10:01 PM
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I suppose that some builders might act superior but by the same token, some non-builders may feel inferior to those that can build and repair their models.

I am also on RC Scale Builders and I am an inferior builder to many who post on that forum, but I don't lose sleep over the issue. I'm just not as good as them at cutting wood very accurately so I get on doing what I can do.

I feel that non-builders are missing something but that's just my opinion.

There are some nice blokes at my club who fly nothing but ARTFs, including the Secretary who flies an enormous petrol powered Extra which must have cost him thousands.
Old 02-12-2015, 06:55 AM
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Just because I build does not make me feel superior to a non builder. Building is a choice, nothing more. No one has asked me, is that an ARF on a plane I built, mainly because they dont look like an ARF. If I sit my planes side by side, ARF to built, there is a clear difference between which is which, and that is because of how I cover the planes. There are ARF 4*120 out there, and if you were to put one next to my kit built one, you would think both were the same plane, difference is the covering on mine is a last run metallic blue from SIG, you can't get anymore. The distinct difference between kit and arf is the canopy. The ARF screws on, the kit glues on. The kit also has servos in the fuse, the ARF in the tail, however, since I had the ARF, I copied that detail and moved the servo to the tail for better control and to offset the DLE20 weight.

When you see my Cub, you will know it is not an ARF, its cloth covered and not in the typical Cub Yellow. However, when you see my T-Clips, and Twin Otter, you KNOW they are ARF. The covering is too perfect on the T, and the Twin, well, it looks like an ARF. I try to do little things to distinguish my builds to make them not look factory built, and do things to them that no ARF has. When my P-51 is done, it will have fully functional inner wheel doors, no ARF will have that. Hopefully its enough detail to set it apart from the same ARF I also have.

Building is a choice, whether you are good at it or not, doesn't matter. Some guys can do really good wood work but suck at covering, while others do really poor wood work, and are fantastic detailers. Some guys just don't have the time, place or money to set up a shop, even if its a hollow core door on a coffee table, so ARF are perfect for them. Assemble it on the kitchen table, take it to the field and fly.


When I see a plane I like I ask, did you build it? Why I ask that is because so many have ARF now, that finding someone who builds is rare, so always seeking them out to gleam more information on how things are done.
Old 02-12-2015, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Telemaster Sales UK
No he didn't he bit off more than he could chew though it was "a damned near run thing!"

As for how the French treat foreigners, it depends who you speak to. The English have been the traditional enemy of the French so some will hold that against you, and some don't like any immigrants. The area where I will be settling is rapidly losing population because its very rural and there's little work for the younger people so some of the locals are delighted to sell their surplus houses to the British, Dutch and Belgians. All I can say is that it helps if you can speak the language, most French people appreciate you making the effort, and I do a bit of open mike stuff and went down well at a couple of sessions.

Finally I got on very well at the local model flying club where I helped them to move their safety barriers five metres further away from the flight line prior to their staging of one of the rounds of the French National Aerobatic Championship. http://berrymarchemodelisme.free.fr/...nat%20f3a.html
My experience with the french was not bad, we speak Spanish, Italian, German and are learning French. If you go to the Riviera, no problem, but in the little town, or even in some Tourist information offices they only speak French. And always the employee that speaks English is not in... Said that, if you do an effort, they respond well, we had no problem ever with them. Oh, yes, one, in Avignon, we were behind a building that did not allow us to see the Pope's Castle, so we see this business-like young lady walking towards us, in a deserted street, and decided to ask her for directions. I mean, it is the biggest building in town we were looking for.. We asked for the Palace of the Pope, and she said NO NO, and refused to stop and talk. Only rude case we run into... The Palai du Pope was one block away, we saw it when we arrived to the corner.

Many Brits are moving there, and I saw lots (and I mean lots) of Brits in the south of Spain. They own like half of all the condos in the Costa del Sol English seems to be spoken in every restaurant!! They have cheap flight to Malaga from every small town in England it seems:-)

Good luck!

Gerry
Old 02-12-2015, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by GerKonig
My experience with the french was not bad, we speak Spanish, Italian, German and are learning French. If you go to the Riviera, no problem, but in the little town, or even in some Tourist information offices they only speak French. And always the employee that speaks English is not in... Said that, if you do an effort, they respond well, we had no problem ever with them. Oh, yes, one, in Avignon, we were behind a building that did not allow us to see the Pope's Castle, so we see this business-like young lady walking towards us, in a deserted street, and decided to ask her for directions. I mean, it is the biggest building in town we were looking for.. We asked for the Palace of the Pope, and she said NO NO, and refused to stop and talk. Only rude case we run into... The Palai du Pope was one block away, we saw it when we arrived to the corner.

Many Brits are moving there, and I saw lots (and I mean lots) of Brits in the south of Spain. They own like half of all the condos in the Costa del Sol English seems to be spoken in every restaurant!! They have cheap flight to Malaga from every small town in England it seems:-)

Good luck!

Gerry
They all love American Money but Hate Americans.
Old 02-12-2015, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
They all love American Money but Hate Americans.
That is not correct.
a) In Europe they do not take American money (Euros) and
b) Hate Americans? Well, was not my experience. But I have seen Americans in my travels, that are easy to hate, but you really have to get to know them for being able to hate them...
Remember also that our perception of WWII was very different than theirs. It was fought in their countries, not here. And while we remember, and honor our vets, our younger generations really, and unfortunately, in a big measure know zip about that. They (French) saw us like a liberation army.
I guess all of us have preconceived notions about the Europeans, many of them are dead wrong. By the same token, many Europeans might be in the same boat...

Gerry
Old 02-12-2015, 12:08 PM
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And while we remember, and honor our vets, our younger generations really, and unfortunately, in a big measure know zip about that.

That is so true. History is not being taught in schools anymore, in fact when I was in school in the 70's the history classes never got out of the 1800's. Shame too, WWII had the greatest generation, and they are all but gone now. I blame the hippies for what Americans are seen as now. Shameful too. Especially when countries like France honor OUR war vets more than we do.

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