m2

hey intermidiot you'll also need to get a lock nut for the spinner! unless u already got it

and yeah i haven't added in the counterbalances yet & how does your fin look? can u take pics? mines not sone yet i still have to do more shaping

intermidiot

Hello m2,

Thanks for the information on the locknut. I do already have one, but I guess maybe that list would be good for others if it had all the parts on it. I might do that. Also, that J'Tec In Cowl .75-1.20 Upright Inverted, is there because I want to find out from Tower if it will work on my fs120 III Surpass with pump. It does say 1.20. I would prefer that rather then the Flex Tubing ( cosmetics ). I will post pictures of my fin for you probably tomorrow.. My friend who has my camera is bringing it back tomorrow.. Strange how traveling 24 miles can take a whole week.

Mustang1964

Hello all,
This is the first build that I have done in years. I have flown the ARF planes. I wanted to try my hand at putting one together my self. I have been reading all I can, and now I have some, what could be construed as stupid questions.
I do not like to proceed until I understand why something is the way it is.
Now for the stupid questions.
The jig tabs on the ribs, I know they are to support the ribs nice and level, The LE and TE are built "in the air" how did ya'll support the LE and TE while the glue was drying?
It look like the LE and TE of the rudder are to be planed/sanded to be smooth with the ribs, why not have the balsa sheeting but up against the LE and TE edge? The edges seem to be over built enough to have the sheeting butt up inside of the edges.

Thank you in advance for your advice.
I really enjoyed reading the thread. Keep up the good work.

Steve

intermidiot

Hello there,

Welcome to the P51 Club... In regard to your first question.. What I did was just put 2 blocks of wood under the wings themselve that were high enough to just lift the plane off the ground about 1/2 inch. This allowed enough of a push on the wings to keep them together as well as keep the CLE snug. Yeah yeah the epoxy should be dry from the brace, but its how I did it. In regard to the other question, I felt the same way. I have not yet sanded mine as I will do just that. Bump it up to the LE. The only place it might become an issue is on the CLE edges, since you have to sand those down to fit in the fuse. Otherwise, its a good plan. One might say, well if you did not perfectly center your LE, then the space on the top or bottom might not be even... yada yada.. nothing the final finishing won't fix. Now, if there is a better reason NOT to do that.. well I am all ears..

PS. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.... You are going to have LOTS and LOTS of those questions as you go through the manual. I mean the manual is not so bad as long as you read it entirely, view and study the pictures ahead of where you are, just to get a glimpse of what things look like as they build it. Seriously, take your time and really think about your next move. Don't rush...

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

I held mine in place and shot it with some ca accelerator, worked well ended up perfectly straight.
Brad

zope_pope

I hate to keep pushing pics off, I have been troubleshooting an engine problem all week, i am just going to send her in.

As far as the wing leading edge goes, I just got someone to help. She held it in place, shot ca on the two outermost ribs, and just worked inward after they were tacked in place. Welcome to the thread.

intermidiot

Hello all,

I was wondering about something. Hinges to be exact. On the P51D they give you the flap hinges. However, based on some research and reading I have found that the CA Hinges are to be used for the ailerons and the elevators along with the rudder. I would like some experienced opinions here. What SHOULD be used for each of those 3 items?

When you respond can you please list them as follows

aileron - xxxxxxxxxxxxxx - and a link to tower hobbies and what to buy
rudder - xxxxxxxxxxxxxx - and a link to tower hobbies and what to buy
elevators - xxxxxxxxxxxxxx - and a link to tower hobbies and what to buy

Also, for the cutting of the hinge slots should I purchase this:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK262&P=M
and this
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK263&P=M
or this
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXPU13&P=M

what is the best way to cut slots for hinges ( CA ) and should slotting be done prior to sheeting? I have one issue with the FLAPS where the hinges

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXET57&P=ML

will have space since the hinge block is behind the wood for the flaps there is like a 1/8 gap on either side of the flap on the wing side and on the flap side. Should more balsa be put in these areas for the flaps so that the hinge is flush or should it be sheeted.. Damn I wish I had my camera back.. If you know what I mean here then please answer.

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

Hello,
I use the ca hinges and love them. It makes it easy to close up the gap, I simply use the Tower hinge slotting tool then drill a small hole thru the center of the slot, insert the hinges put the control exactly like I want them, then wick some thin ca on the hinges. I have never had nor seen one fail yet, if someone says different then I would suspect their install of the hinges, they are that good. Now .60 size warbirds are my largest planes, I cannot speak for giant scale or larger aircraft. A search on the Tower web site will easily show you all the items needed, ca hinges and the tool. I also use the tool that marks the exact center of the hinging area. Feel free to ask me anything, I will help if possible.
Goodluck,
Brad

intermidiot

Hello Brad,

Thanks for chiming in.. I just want to be sure on this. So you use the CA Hinges
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK110&P=7

for the elevators, ailerons and Rudder? You do not use anything stronger for the rudder? like these?
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXD944&P=7

and you do use the slotting tool and marking tool?
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK262&P=M
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK263&P=7

How many hinges can you do before the blades wear out or become loose? Just answer the above questions with a yes or no. Thanks.. I will then go out and buy them today once you give me the go ahead.

m2

hey intermidiot n all

have you got a mobile phone? my pic was taken with the camera from the N3230, i guess it gets to job done.

Also how did you go with joining the wings and adding the retracts? have you done this yet. Thats coming up for me in the next steps and im trying to gather any extra tips incase like you say the manuals missed that important step.....

intermidiot

Hello m2,

In regards to the joining of the wings. What I normally do is prefit everything.. then I leave it there for a day and make sure that I also am not forgetting anything and how I will progress. What I mean by this is that once you dry fit it together and make sure it lines up and should be as it should be then just take some time to say to yourself.. Ok, where am I going from here. ( not that I need to tell you this, just how I do it ), then I consider where I am going to tak glue things together so that it holds while I epoxy. In this case of the wings there is ( in my case ) was a lot of tension to hold it together. But I held it for like 5 minutes, which is not a long time unless you are doing the holding. heh.. Once in place, and perfectly aligned I then mixed my epoxy and dripped it inside the hole and let it settle. I used the 30 minute epoxy so that it would settle and cover everything pretty well before it set.

Then I just slowly started to position the wings on their edge, bottom, side etc and evenly distributed a fillet of epoxy around the points of contact. I can honestly say I take my time and make sure that the fillet is only about a 1/16 in thickness. The bond is strong and it keeps the weight down. Once that dried over night I then started getting ready for my retracts. I am using the robart 605's with the robostruts. I will say this. try to dryfit your retracts cause if you drop in the retract wood pieces and epoxy them you will not get an idea of if the wheel will be completely covered by the sheeting or not. I had to shim the right retract a little so that it would be completely covered by the sheeting when I decide to sheet the wings.. I then dry set my retracts and measure them up so they are the same distance from the w-1a assembly.. I mark the retract screw holes on the wood.. ( even the retracts out as best as possible.. make them identical. really eye it up and then measure if needed. drill your holes and then screw them in but not to tight. pick up the wings and from the bottom over your head so the bottom is the bottom make sure you can see from the front that the sheeting will cover your wheels. If not then shim the retract a little until it WILL not be seen once the sheeting is applied.

Then hook up your air system and test test test and retest until the retracts work perfectly. Realize that when the retract go up they will be a lot smoother then when they come down. But fine tune the screws on the air system to get them as best as possible. Once that is done and you have run your air cables behind the aileron servo tray, test them again.. Now, at this point make sure that they air lines will not interfere with the flap servos when they are installed. The air lines will connect really well to their contacts.. However, you still need to use the retaining nuts to ensure that the pressure to the retracts does not escape.. I even used a little ca+ ( thick ). Now wait a day.. and then pressurize the system. Now wait another day and come back and check the pressure.. I usually crank it up to 80lbs. If it leaks out severely... I mean there is no air.. then start to use the water and soap on a swab test and check the connections for the air. See where it is leaking out.. even check the variable rate control valve. Make sure there are no leaks...

At this point you can move on, but be sure to think about WHERE you are going to mount the fill valve. I did mine under the cowl like in the manual at the back of the book, along with the fuel filler. You can see it in a picture in the book at the back.. page 43

Hope that helps.. I have passed that area, so I cannot think of what I was doing at the time anymore.. if I think of anything else I will post it..

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

I never really paid close attention to how long they last, I am guessing you could complete 3 planes without changing the blades. I think I have changed mine 2 times. Of course they do get duller as you go so if money is not an issue change them as often as you deem needed. The blades are inexpensive and easy to change. I have ran into some hard balsa that puts the challenge to the cutter but for the most part it works like butter! I didn't mention it but I also slightly enlarge the slot with a number 11 blade and hobby knife if I feel the slot is to tight to close the control up. Oh yeah one more note, use a t pin in the center of the hinge, this ensures that you get a bond to wood on both sides of the hinge and also leaves you just the slightest hinge gap.
Later,
Brad

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

Intermidiot,
Yes you got the right stuff there and I do use the ca hinges on all surfaces. That is my opinion though and some folks here may say otherwise. I have done at least 10 planes with ca hinges without a single problem, however the largest engine I have used would be a SuperTiger G-90 in my P-51 so I am comfortable saying that in this size plane and down that ca hinges are very very good.
Forgot to answer that in the orginal post sorry,
Brad

intermidiot

Thanks for the quick reply Brad. I am going to go out and get them. The hobby shop opens in my area at 12 noon till 8 pm, so I will be there when it opens. I am also going to post this link for others in search of installing CA hinges. This link discusses what you said and is illustrated. Thanks again..

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=55

zope_pope

Make sure to seal the hinges as well with monokote or ultrakote as this will reduce flutter problems. I saw a nice p40 go in a few weeks ago because the elevator fluttered off.

m2

ouch!

thanks for the detailed reply intermidiot!

FOShowNoClass

My Feedback: (7)

BradSD,

I have a question about the ST .90. When you saw it was marginal, did you mean marginal for anything other than scale flying? I'm look ing for an engine that will be a good putting around engine for some mild aerobatics. Would this be a good choice? Thanks.

Will

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

I think it probably flys the plane to scale however I have never seen a real one fly. For general sport flying it will do just fine. I had to add a lot of lead to the front of my plane with this engine and to me if I were doing it again I would spend the extra dough and get the OS 1.20 four stroke, the weight would have been about right I think. Not to mention the reliability of the 4 stroke. I fly the G90 on a .60 size bingo and I am just used to rocket non stop verticals and very fast flybys. The verticle climb is very limited with the G90 on the P-51 however a flyby from a dive is quit fast and a sight to see. My rolls are a bit slow for my taste as well and I usually nose up a tad before doing it and add a little down while inverted. It probably is scale like however but when you are used to a Dazzler and little sport planes that spin like a top it feels sort of slow. I did build the plane with only one standard servo for the ailrons, I really need to change this out to a more powerful and quicker servo. So far no problems though with the one servo set up and bellcranks. My biggest problem with the plane so far is rolling over to the nose after landing, not a pretty sight and broke a few props and a spinner. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask I love talking this stuff.
Later,
Brad

zope_pope

Hey brad,
what spinner are you running on the p51? Do you have any videos to share? Thanks. This thread looks to have really taken off! (No Pun Intended)

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

Bad question I had a 4" spinner that I bought with the kit from Tower on the plane. In one of my nose overs it developed a small crack that I did not see. On the next take off I notice a funny vibrating sound then suddenly what I call a small explosion happens. I think my plane is dead and crashing but it actually smooths out and starts flying okay. At the time I didnt know what it was so I did some slow fly overs and finally figured out that it was the spinner and everything was cool. My wife happened to be video taping the incident, and after getting home I pop in this dvd and to my surprise this spinnner must have went 250 feet in the air. The explosion happens than i fly out a ways and make a turn back, then on the video you see the spinner come down not 20 feet from the plane and hit the ground. Anyways, Tower doesnt carry that spinner any longer and I am in the market for one. I am currently using a plane white 3" one just to be able to fly and start easy. So if any of you fellas know of a good 4" one I need one to. Also, I do have some killer video BUT, I bought my camara off ebay and they did not include the software to connect up to the computer. I might look into getting this somehow soon. I would love to post video of all my flying. My p-51 is pictured in my gallery if you want to take a look at it as well as one of my Sig Wonders with my youngest daughter showing it off.
Later,
Brad

intermidiot

Hello Gents,

You can check out my wish list here:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...h+List+Look-Up

Those are the items I purchased for my p51-d. However, if you just want to see the spinner then click here:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=DAVQ7240&P=K

BradSD

My Feedback: (9)

I saw that spinner and have been thinking about getting it. It would do okay I guess but you cant paint it to match and it is a bit pricy but I am sure it is a very good spinner. Right now it is the only choice they have I think. Hey your wish list is almost as big as mine [X(] Don't expect us to be buying that stuff for you, Santa's not on RCU I dont think. Atleast he hasn't filled my list yet anyway. Then again maybe I was bad.
Later,
Brad

intermidiot

lol,

I have most of the stuff already.. I was leaving it up there so if anyone was wondering what would fit in this plane, in cowl etc.. and the thing I used to get the plane completed, that they would have something to look at. To me finding an engine that would fit in the plane, in cowl and have an inverted muffler was quite the challenge. Oh, if you check your PM do not worry about responding. I already have my answers.

Santa.. lol... that was good.. Where is your wish list?

zope_pope

I think the shiny aluminum spinner would look great on the front of a Mustang. I have a dave brown aluminum I want to say 5", but could be 4.5" spinner on my DP Ultimate and it is very high quality and looks brilliant. You probably wont have to worry about exploding spinners, but the rash of the runway may mess up the finish easily.

p39

My Feedback: (5)

This has been an interesting read. Thanks guys. I've ben flying my P-51 all summer. OS 120 w/ pump. Robart retracts. It flies really scale at 1/2 - 3/4 throttle. Be sure you've got airspeed before lifting off.

Way back when I first started building and shaping balsa wing tips etc. I was thinking... gee, balsa.... use fine sandpaper, right? Now I carve with the big Xacto knife with 3" long blade... rough sand with 60 grit paper , maybe then 150 and then 320.... It makes sanding much more enjoyable.

I've got two more of the TF '51B's on the shelf waiting for my attention and time.