For a while now I have had a hankering for a slow, relaxing plane that would stay aloft for a long time, be quiet, easily used to introduce friends to R/C, and teach my son to fly on. I envision it being flown kind of like a motor glider. I have recently picked up a Seniorita and an OS 30 four stroke. I want to do the following to the Seniorita and am looking for advice from others who have done similar:

1. Add Ailerons. What size?
2. Add Flaps. What size
3. Reduce dihedral. How much?
4. Make it a tail dragger.
5. Change outline of flying surfaces to a more rounded, cub like shape.

Thanks

Did you look at the Kadet LT-25? It has the ailerons and is a taildragger.

I would add a full strip aileron like the LT series. I am not sure about flaps. Some have built this plane with no dihedral. To make it a taildragger, I would move the main landing gear to the front leading edge of the wing and add a tailwheel. You will probably have to make a hole in the elevator if you use a wire type tailwheel setup.

I just like the looks of the Seniorita better and I like the old school Sig kits better. I enjoy turning a pile of sticks into an airplane.
I should have said in the first post that I am an experienced pilot and builder

Thanks for the advice

Both the Seniorita and the LT 25 would be good candidates for your engine.

The LT 25 is more of a floater plane and is simplier to build with a lower parts count.

But you are an experienced builder and there is no reason why you cannot do what you want?

Go for it.

The plane is so small that Flaps will make the plane too heavy and destroy any floating characteristics you desired in the first place.

The strip ailerons would be the simplist way to go about the task.

But You can also build the wing as shown on the plans and then saw out barn door style ailerons and then frame the sawn edges.

The plane should be a good candidate for smaller servos like the Hitec HS81 and HS225 varieties.

The rounding of the shapes should be simple enough for you. As long as you keep the areas about the same on the control surfaces, you not notice any difference in performance.

I'm sure it will be nice when you are done.

Enjoy,

Jim

1: Done it: Barn-door ailerons.
2: Doesn't need them.
3: Take it all out.
4: Done it: ran wire thru fuse from rudder, requires mount plate on bottom of fuse for reinforcement.
5: Can if you want, I just enlarged my rudder.
Also added bomb drops, have floats and skiis.

So, for barn door ailerons, how big?

Look at this instruction manual for the Slow Poke 40. It has barn door ailerons. I have 4 of these planes and they fly well.

By proportion, make yours about the same size. You can use construction details to your advantage also?

Enjoy,

Jim

I built mine 4 rib bays wide, starting at the second rib from the tip, leading edge at the rear spar. That makes it 10.5"x4.25" approx.

That's one big barn door?

I bet it does a mean snap roll?

Enjoy,

Jim

Yep. Bhole must have the world's only 3D Seniorita

Thanks for the great input so far fellas.

Seems to me that this plane has more wing area than it knows what to do with. Do I need to be very concerned with weight? I like to cover my planes with fabric and paint them. Also would like to use standard (read cheap) servos and radio gear.

What's the biggest fuel tank I could/should use? Don't want it so big that I have fuel draw/leaning problems when it gets low or wild CG shifts but would like to sit in a chair and putter around the sky for a while like a glider on a good thermal day.

The OS 30 will do fine with 4oz

But a 6oz will still run good.

Enjoy,

Jim

It's a heck of a flying machine. With the slightly enlarged rudder, it does very nice knife edge flight. I am running an OS 32sx which has great power, I can only imagine if it had a 4-stroke. The bomb drops in the wings adds a lot of character, especially when you drop bombs in the middle of the runway at a fly-in when nobody is expecting it. DO it again! Do it again!

SOunds interesting. Did you use the full length wing? How much did you enlarge the rudder?

Full length wing. Subtracted 1/2" from the vertical stab and moved it to the rudder, vertical surface remains the same, just moved the rear post forward.

If you want a relaxing to fly floater then just build it stock. I have built several Seniors stock and you cant beat em for relaxing easy flying fun ships. LEAVE IT STOCK.

I would vote to leave it stock as well. Mine was the best flying 3channel model I've ever had, and I've had a few. Quite happily do good barrel rolls and inverted flight at very low airspeed. I only sold it to make more space in the workshop and wish I hadn't. Still got the plan though...

As an aside, at a fly-in last year, there was a bloke doing loops and rolls at *very* low altitude, ie fun-fly under 40ft altitude, with a Kadet Senior. 78" wing, rudder/elevator, no ailerons, powered by an LA40. Beautiful to watch.

All this talk of mods is making me wanna rip into the MKII. I'd love to make it a tail dragger.

CP

Why stop there? Here's my MKII.

Woops

They are fun stock, I finally retired my original after 5 years and a bad fuel leak, but why limit yourself. The new one has every flying characteristic of the original, just a lot more possibilities.

Nice cover job Woops, looks like you have been digging in my wife scrapbook trash can!LOL

I've done it and it is a envey of the planes. Have over 30 yrs Xp, and this is one of my favorites. Added 1 -1/8 full stip aileron, tail dragger, with pull pull, flat hershy bar flat wing, 1" on the rudder. Pure cross control flat turns, Full side slips, all aerobatics. On a worn out 25, Slow, rolls, slow in tight flight. Do not loan out your plans! You will have to add in a traling edge longitudinal balsa spar.

It' will not be the last one you build you will love it that much. Did one in translusent yellow, yellow fiberglass pushrod to ele, and yellow pull pull sulivon wire.

After messing with the plans a bit this weekend, I have come to the same conclusion as a few of you. Leave it stock, keep it simple, keep it light. The only thing I can't live with is a nose wheel. Gotta make it a tail gragger. Will probably give it a bolt on wing as well. Don't care for the rubber band look.

Thanks again for all the good avice. I can see myself with a big mark II in the future to scratch my flap/aileron itch.

Andy

I am in the middle of constructing a tail-dragger Seniorita as well (first build after 18year layoff). Fuselage is 80% framed. LG is 40 size Dural Gear, stock mains but with a small Ohio Superstar tail wheel set (plan to do pull-pull). Wing is 95% done; stock (no ailerons) and will use rubber-band hold down. I have a second Seniorita kit on hand and plan to build a second wing with ailerons (probably strip) and less dihedral (est: ~1/3 of original). Power will be a used OS .40LA.
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Bruce

Bruce,

Sounds nice. Are you using pull pull for the rudder and tail wheel or just one with the other on a push rod? I was thinking using pushrods for the elevator and rudder and pull pull on the tailwheel.

woodys3b,

Push rods for both the rudder and elevator; separate pull-pull for the tail wheel. Details not worked out on the latter; no direct line of sight from servo to tiller arm. Thinking cable or flex wire/tube combo (generic or Sullivan Flex Gold-N-Rod) running rearward and downward and exiting adjacent to the lower longerons (each side) just past the 3rd cross-member from the tail. (balsa braces where appropriate). Might use springs in loop or have separate servos for tail wheel and rudder. That would also give me taxi control on the left stick (Mode II) and yaw control on the right while flying.
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Bruce

Bruce,

That's a great way to avoid the frustration of trying to fly a no-aileron plane.

Ground control is on the left stick and flight turning is on the right stick.... great

Enjoy

Jim