tuwood

Thanks for the tips Lee, I can't wait to see some pictures!!

I disected "Ultimate I" tonight, (it's been laying in a pile since the crash) mostly to get a feel for where the weight is at. I grabbed the 4-40 rods out of the tail section (the elevator ones) & they are 24 inches long & weigh about 2 oz. All of the 4-40 rods put together, including the aileron joiners were about 4 oz.
The Stan's LG with steel axles (GP I think) & the Stan's wheelpants weighed in at 11 oz. I took them apart & the breakdown is: LG 7 oz, wheelpants 2 oz., Axles 2 oz.)

So, my thoughts now are that I'm still going to get the CF pushrod's but I think it will gain me only a couple oz. overall. I am reconsidering the LG because most of the CF LG's are showing around 5 oz. so I'm thinking I'll only be able to cut it down to around 8 or 9 oz. overall. [&o]
Not to mention that it would cost me around 80 bucks to save those 2 or 3 oz. eek.

I just thought of another question for you guys.
Does anybody make a control horn for Bi-Plane Aileron pushrods that hangs over the back of the aileron. Meaning that with the standard cut down horn I used before my aileron's weren't exactly even with full deflections each way.
Here's a picture of how I did one of my foamy bi-planes & a picture depicting the issue.

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

Tuwood, congrats on your success with Futaba. Glad they did you right. As far as the glass on wing joint, I'd use a 2oz.
I had problems with the clear coat on my cowl, so I've been putting off tackling it lately. As far as using Robart Hinge Points, you really need some depth to anchor those, and if you use them, you might want to glue in hinge blocks to give 'em something to bite into. I have used them before, but not on this kit. Since I didn't want to glue in more wood on this kit, I used GP pinned nylon hinges (white in color). They work quite well, and have less resistence than CA hinges, able to epoxy in place with good surface area without adding more wood. Keep us posted on your progress.

Thinn

I'm glad you got the excellent service from Futaba! It was really sad to hear about your crash...

On the control horn question; I've seen linkage that hangs over the back on F3A biplanes. (The ZN Line Suxess prototype had that solution, but is now made with 4 wing servos).
It will be a more correct way of doing the linkage. Cut out a lug of carbon/fiberglass and glue it into the control horn. I would position the lugs at the same span as the wing supports. Also, you can get airfoiled rods, but I don't think you'll notice any performance differences from plane carbon rods.... Use ball-links to connect the rods to the lugs on the ailerons.

Another thing...
The forward lower wing support (Plywood crossbar) should be fuel proofed! Mine wasn't, and after apprx.300 flights, this resulted in a "wings off" manouvre that destroyed the plane!

I'm looking forward to seeing the progress on your new Ultimate! Good luck!

tuwood

Thanks for the tips. That's very similar to what I was going to try on the Aileron's; I was planning to epoxy a thick piece of CF into a groove on the back of the aileron & clamp a control horn type plate across the top and bottom for strength. I drew up a diagram showing what I'm thinking.

I noticed a lot of oil getting into the front of the wing area & on top of my LG. I plan to do some modifications around there to help deflect the exhaust below the LG mount & wing mount. I will surely fuelproof that area on the next one as well.

burgh_guy61

My Feedback: (11)

Really glad to hear Futaba is doing what they are. The sketch is how i like to do inter control for bipes and if you epoxy it in place it is going nowhere. For carbon rods use central hobbies and you will never turn back from using them again.
http://www.centralhobbies.com/contro...e/carbrod.html

R/C Lee

My Feedback: (3)

Tony, I just received my June 2006 copy of Model Airplane News and on page 13 Sullivan has an ad for their Flex-Mount. Reading about your trouble getting a Sullivan mount, it seems a little crazy of them to advertise the mount, especially at the start of our flying season, but not make it available. Maybe a call to Sullivan might help. Lee

tuwood

Hmmm, I've been looking at the Sullivan Dynamount & that's the one that's not available anywhere. I just called sullivan to see what's up with them.

The lady was very knowledgable & said that they haven't made the dynamount for over 2 years. Apparently they have a project to redesign it but it's been permanently back burnered & it's going to be quite a while until they have a new one. [&o] (that would explain the supply shortages)

She said it shouldn't be listed in their catalog or on the web site (which it is) & she was going to see about getting it removed.
She did mention the flex mounts that your talking about as an alternative, but something just doesn't look right about those. http://www.sullivanproducts.com/Moto...sMainFrame.htm

Tower doesn't carry the Flex Mounts but she said I could order one directly from Sullivan for $32 (i think).

Has anyone tried using the Sullivan Flex Mount? I'm not sure it will give enough carb clearance on the back & I'm not sure if I like the idea of using the crank case bolts to hold the motor on the mount?? [sm=confused.gif]

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

I am not using a soft mount. If I used a metal mount I might look into it but I have redesigned the runners on the top with bass and increased the strength of the firewall by using aircraft ply and I'll mount a rubber mat under the engine mount. Plus my servo tray has a bead of silicone under it. This is way overboard from other aircraft I've seen that have flown for years from guys who have been doing this a while and it works fine. I'm not talking you out of it but there is no proof that I've seen that makes me freak out about it. The switch concerns me so I'll get a heavy duty from MPI and I have had battery failures so I'll look into a redundant system. It did put a scare in me at first but after thinking it through I feel I have enough protection but this option has too many weight issues to consider it.
Now, having said that, my plane just might shake apart![:@]

R/C Lee

My Feedback: (3)

For what it's worth, I just purchased a Hobbico AccuCycle Elite and used it today. What a great product! I have a battery pack I use for checking out my systems on the bench (dated 9/03), and because of its date, I don't fly it. By the way, whenever I buy a new pack I write the date on it. I cycled the pack and found that it has almost two hours of capacity on it, based on the drawdown rate that we normally experience in flight. Even assuming a higher drawdown rate with digital servos, it tells me that the pack is good to go, something I wouldn't have known otherwise. I also cycled a 270 maH pack I use for a small plane, and it showed me its capacity. The AccuCycle has a lot of default memory and you can put different pack sizes into memory. So, it you are in any way concerned about your battery packs, I suggest you look into this little gem. It's a little expensive, but what does one of our planes cost if we have a battery failure? I plan to use a 2200 maH pack I just purchased from SR Batteries for the Ultimate. The nice thing about the AccuCycle is that I can cycle this pack as well as a 600 maH pack. Lee

tuwood

This post made me start researching the RCU archives & there's quite a few threads on soft mounts. What I garnered from most of them was that you absolutely need them on big engines & they're optional on smaller ones. The question is, what constitutes big & small?
I posted a thread over in the glow engines asking that very question.

I also picked up my Saito pushrod's from the LHS tonight & asked several of the guys that worked there & they were all convinced that
soft mounts were just extra weight. Boy, that helps clear up the debate. lol

I'm still not convinced to not use one, so I did find another one that I like & it looks pretty light. The Gator RC Soft N Safe Mount. http://www.centralhobbies.com/Engine...ts/gatorrc.htm
Anybody have any experience with the Gator mount? Do you guys think the 1.25 will fit it OK?

On the soft mount debate I did find an interesting article that you guys might enjoy. It's an article telling how they test the effectiveness of Hyde mounts by measuring current draw. The more vibration there is the more current it takes to hold the servo's at center.
http://www.centralhobbies.com/Engine...s/hydetxt.html

tuwood

I've been eyeballing that for a while, but I keep spending all my money on planes.
So far, I've been doing everything manually but I'll get one before any of my battery's get much older.

RVM

Use a Pitts Muffler with some flexible extensions on it to blow the exhaust farther away from the bottom of the plane. I hate stock mufflers for 99% of R/C applications.

jb86

My Feedback: (8)

all my nicad's (rx and 800 mah tx's) are sr batteries, i use them exclusively for nicad's because of the quality of equipment, assembly and matched cells. i trust larry's recommendations, when i asked of a battery cycler, the sirius (peak electronics) super test came available. he said the old ace digicycle (i think that's what it's called, not available anymore) was the only one that he would trust up til then. then sirius is only about $80 and is the safest to use, and simple. i also use the sirius ffc (safest way to charge, doesn't overheat the batteries), their equip is all microprocessor controlled. i find it necessary to cycle my nicad's a couple times a season.
i have asked alot of people about soft engine mounts, very few people say to use them, i'm not convinced to use them yet. i fly os 70 fs, 91 fs and 120 fs
jon b

tychoc

Does anybody have a computer image (jpeg, gif etc.) that outlines the Ultimate?

I need one to start planning my covering scheme.

Thanks,

tychoc

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

I use the Gator Soft-N-Safe mounts and like them. The smaller of the two will fit the 1.25 Saito, and it is what I am using on my Ultimate. They are lighter than the DuBro, and nice quality. I have used them from .72 to 1.50 Saito, and recommend them. For the 1.20 size mount, I added some RTV silicone to stiffen the mount, even using their hard grommets.

davesteemke

Any tips on an easy way to get the wire through the holes on the top wing, I'm pretty much done, and am now assembling the airplane. It was so much easier without the covering, what happened? Also, do most of u just leave the wings on all the time? I was trying to get the top wing on last night and quit after 30 min if trying to get that stupid wire through all the holes!

tuwood

Sorry Tychoc, I didn't bother making one. I have no artistic ability at all, so I pretty much looked for a scheme I liked & copied it. hehe

tuwood

That looks real nice. I was wondering if I could get away with the smaller mount on the 1.25.

tuwood

I took my dremel sander & sharpened the tip & it helped out quite a bit. I had to finesse it a little bit but it did go through pretty easy. I was pretty much planning to leave mine together in storage, but the stupid tree I hit had other plans. :-) Oh, btw the top wing stayed connected to the cabanes & it didn't even bend the connecting rod during the crash, so it's certainly durable.

RVM

That Gator Mount looks really well-made. Do you have any thrust angle problems or anything like that? Is the rubber holding up well? Where did you order yours from?

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

The small Gator mount will work with the 1.25 fine. The larger one will fit the Saito big blocks (1.20, 1.50, & 1.80). I order mine direct from Gator R/C, but I think Central Hobbies also carries them.

As far as the elastomer grommets lasting, I have a couple planes with only one season each on the mounts, so I can't say how long it takes to wear out the rubber. My guess is a loooooong time.

For thrust angles on the Ultimate, the firewall builds square to the fuse, so I added a couple washers on the left engine mount between mount and firewall for my 2 degrees.

R/C Lee

My Feedback: (3)

Tony's idea of putting a point on the end of the wire will help a lot. Another thing I do is insert a small o.d. wire to line everything up, then take it out and put in the connecting rod. Lee

davesteemke

Thanks, I'll try that.
Thanks 4 Your Time,
Dave

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Uh.... what am I missing here????? Isn't the whole point of a soft mount to minimize vibration transfer to the air frame? So why stiffen it?

Personally, I question the actual need for a soft mount on an airplane this size. Now, I have no doubt they do indeed minimize vibration, and that's a good thing. But those dampers are just one more thing to fail, and checking them does not appear to be a quick'n'dirty task. IOW, ya gotta pull the cowl, etc.

I have de-commissioned/re-commissioned my Ultimate several times. Its one that I will NOT let go, although I have pulled the Laser 150 out of it several times to go into other airplanes. Each time, the airframe gets a thorough check-out, ESPECIALLY the firewall. This model has close to 200 flights on it and is almost five years old.

When I build my next one, I'll do the "Higley mod" to the firewall; but I just do not see the need for a soft mount.

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

Steve, I won't try to win you over (as far as the soft mounts). It's kind of like the "tastes great / less filling" debate. Every engine has different harmonics if you will - shake more/less at different rpms depending on prop, etc. I found that my Saito 1.50 with a 16x8 APC shook at idle, and by stiffening the grommets, it allowed it to absorb the vibrations without moving around as much. There was the test refered to (read it on Central Hobbies website) that tells about benefits of Chip Hyde soft mount. Interesting stuff.