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Old 05-09-2006 | 08:01 PM
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Default Robart Hinges: opinions

I am putting a larger rudder on my SIG Four Star 60. I've never used Robart hinges, but they look like they have better movement than CA hinges + they won't get soaked with glow fuel. I would like opinions on Robart or any other hinge system that people have had good luck with.
Old 05-09-2006 | 08:06 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

I used Robart hinges on my Sig 1/4 Clipped Wing Cub and the Ercoupe's I am building now, I will not use any other hinges after useing these. If you decide on Robart hinges spend the few extra dollars to get the Robart Hinge Drilling Guide. The hinges are easy to install and work much better than C/A hinges and will outlast any other hinge in my opinion.
Good Luck!!
Anthony
Old 05-09-2006 | 08:33 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions


ORIGINAL: CubNut

I used Robart hinges on my Sig 1/4 Clipped Wing Cub and the Ercoupe's I am building now, I will not use any other hinges after useing these. If you decide on Robart hinges spend the few extra dollars to get the Robart Hinge Drilling Guide. The hinges are easy to install and work much better than C/A hinges and will outlast any other hinge in my opinion.
Good Luck!!
Anthony
Ditto. I'll never use anything else.

Ken
Old 05-09-2006 | 09:00 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

Hi guys, I am a newbie here so please forgive ...

For a small plane such as a 40 size sport or trainer, would you still consider using Robart Hinges? Looking at tower hobbies I see the size as about 1/8". Are these appropriate for this size plane or are there smaller hinges available?

Neil
Old 05-09-2006 | 09:42 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

Yes, use them even on a 40 size plane. For that size plane use the 3/16" hinge points. [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXADE7&P=0]3/16" Robart Hinge Point[/link]

Hope this helps

Ken
Old 05-10-2006 | 04:45 AM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

The 1/8" Hinge Points are for 1/2A to .20 size models. The 3/16" should work fine for a .40 size plane as long as the tail surfaces are at least 1/4" thick, preferably 5/16" thick. If the stock is to thin then use the 1/8" hinges and just double the ammount of hinges used.
Hope this helps!!
Anthony
Old 05-10-2006 | 08:09 AM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

What size robart hinges do you use for a .60 size airplane {SIG Four Star 60}?
Old 05-10-2006 | 09:33 AM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

That should be the 3/16"
Anthony
Old 05-10-2006 | 10:22 AM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions


ORIGINAL: jigeye

What size robart hinges do you use for a .60 size airplane {SIG Four Star 60}?
Go for the 1/8th. The surfaces are too thin for the 3/16th. You are better off using smaller hinges that have more 'meat' around them. I use Robart's almost exclusivly now. 1/8 on everything from 40 size all the way up to my GP Skybolt with a Magnum 120.

Have any of you ever done a pull test on a Robart hinge? 20 pounds breaks the 1/8. But just one. Multiply that by three for an elevator half, and you have 60 pounds of tensile strength for one control surface. If the plans call for 3 CA hinges on an elevator half, replace them with 3 1/8th or 3/16 if the thickness allows.

I also use poly glue to mount them in. Never had a failure.
Old 05-10-2006 | 11:12 AM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

I have never had a failure with 1/8 in robarts. I always use the steel pined ones. I have used these on planes all the way up to 100 in. 120 sized planes with no problems. Plus the're much easier to Install. I built a jig for drilling the surface from the edge so as to keep it centered. This works mostly for straight 1/4 in surfaces
Old 05-10-2006 | 11:24 AM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

Do you guys then epoxy them in?
Old 05-10-2006 | 11:40 AM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

Polyurethane glue works best for me.
Old 05-10-2006 | 11:58 AM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

I use epoxy, put the glue in the hole then add the hinge. DO NOT PUT GLUE ON THE HINGE!!!
Anthony
Old 05-10-2006 | 12:01 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

I really like Robart's hinge and have rarely used anything else. Four years ago, I ran some tests on 1/8" Robart hinges with four different types of glue and posted the results on the old RCO forum. These results should still be true today provided Robart hasn't changed their design or materials. Deadeye's post indicates that the hinge is good for only 20 lbs tension; my tests showed much higher allowables so hopefully Robart hasn't changed anything since 2002. Sorry for the long post, but here is the complete story (typical structures engineer speak).

Gary

*************************

March, 2002

Four 1/8†size Robart Hinge Points are tension tested for the following glues. The hinges are from Robart’s package number 308.

* Titebond, Original (from Home Depot, noted as “TBâ€);
* Super Z RC/56 by J & Z Products (from Cedar Park Hobbies);
* Elmer’s Probond Polyurethane (from Home Depot, noted as “PBâ€).
* 30 min. Epoxy, Bob Smith Industries (house label from Cedar Park Hobbies);


HINGE PREPARATION

* Each hinge is used stock and not roughened, sanded, or modified.
* The hinge side to be glued was cleaned with denatured alcohol and not touched again after cleaning.
* The hinge lugs were not oiled or treated to prevent glue from binding them up.


TEST SAMPLES

* The hinges are glued into a 1/2" thick balsa block 1.1†apart (ensuring that each is glued to similar wood grain).
* 1/8†holes are hand drilled only to the length of the hinge, and the first 1/8†length of hole is widened to accept the wider boss of the hinge near the pivot lugs.
* The holes are centered and squared by using Robart's drill guide.
* The holes were cleaned with a shot of compressed air.
* Glue is applied to both the hinges and holes, and a toothpick is used to work the glue down into the hole.
* Per Elmer’s instructions, the hole for the Probond sample was slightly moistened with a Q-tip that had most of its cotton removed.
* The hinges are sunk as deep into the block as possible such that the hinge pins are about 1/32†from the surface of the block.
* No attempt was made to clean the glue out of the hinge lugs; excess glue was wiped clean.
* The samples were allowed to cure for 48 to 50 hours before testing.
* The balsa block is of a “medium†grade and was purchased from Lone Star Models in June 2000.


TEST SETUP

* A 1.5†x 1.5†x 1/8†angle iron was horizontally clamped in a bench vice.
* The balsa block sits on the horizontal leg of the iron and the free end of the hinge passes through a 1/2†hole in the iron.
* Large forceps are clamped to the free end of the hinge and a 5 gallon bucket is hung from the forceps. The bucket & forceps weigh 2 lbs 6 oz.
* Pennies are gradually added to the bucket from a supply of 50+ pounds of pennies.


PRE-TEST OBSERVATION

Since no attempt was made to clean the glues out of the hinge lugs, it was noted prior to the test that the RC56 hinge action was stiff while the TB hinge “broke†loose and was much easier to rotate. Both the epoxy and PB hinges “broke†free as well, but were stiffer to rotate then the TB hinge and not as stiff as the RC56 hinge.


RESULTS

The RC/56 hinge pulled out at 38 lb 13 oz (38.8 lb)

* The hinge pulled cleanly out of the block; no large chunks of balsa were removed.
* Almost no glue or balsa was attached to the hinge.
* The hinge lugs and pin were not deformed and the hinge rotated smoothly.


The Titebond hinge pulled out at 46 lb 5 oz (46.3 lb)

* The hinge pulled cleanly out of the block; no large chunks of balsa were removed.
* Some glue and balsa remnants were still attached to about 1/3 of the glue surface.
* The hinge lugs and pin are deformed & stretched; the Titebond glue held almost to the full static strength of the hinge’s plastic.


The Probond hinge broke at 56 lb 3 oz (56.2 lb)

* The glue held to the full static strength of the hinge.
* The hinge lugs broke at the hinge pin; the barbed end of the hinge remained glued in the balsa block.


The 30 min. Epoxy hinge broke at 59 lb 5 oz (59.3 lb)

* This glue also held to the full static strength of the hinge.
* The hinge lugs broke at the hinge pin; the barbed end of the hinge remained glued in the balsa block.
* The 59.3 lb failure load occurred on the second test attempt on the hinge.
* The first test ended at 46.3 lb when the forceps’s grip on the free end stripped the plastic barbs off of the hinge.
* The hinge lugs were deformed after the first attempt, but continued to hold to a failure load of 59.3 lb on the second attempt.
Old 05-10-2006 | 12:02 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

A little dab of vasoline on the actual hinge will keep epoxy from getting in the hinge.

Ken
Old 05-10-2006 | 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

I've found that at cold temps (freezing) these hinges can be weak at the pin when shear forces are applied. I had three 1/8" hinges fail simultaneously at the pin on the aileron of a 120" slope glider while flying in 35mph winds. The other aileron sheared off when I crash landed after the initial failure. Just be aware if you store your planes in an unheated garage.
Old 05-10-2006 | 01:08 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions


ORIGINAL: GAP-RCU

I really like Robart's hinge and have rarely used anything else. Four years ago, I ran some tests on 1/8" Robart hinges with four different types of glue and posted the results on the old RCO forum. These results should still be true today provided Robart hasn't changed their design or materials. Deadeye's post indicates that the hinge is good for only 20 lbs tension; my tests showed much higher allowables so hopefully Robart hasn't changed anything since 2002. Sorry for the long post, but here is the complete story (typical structures engineer speak).

Gary

*************************

March, 2002

Four 1/8†size Robart Hinge Points are tension tested for the following glues. The hinges are from Robart’s package number 308.

* Titebond, Original (from Home Depot, noted as “TBâ€);
* Super Z RC/56 by J & Z Products (from Cedar Park Hobbies);
* Elmer’s Probond Polyurethane (from Home Depot, noted as “PBâ€).
* 30 min. Epoxy, Bob Smith Industries (house label from Cedar Park Hobbies);


HINGE PREPARATION

* Each hinge is used stock and not roughened, sanded, or modified.
* The hinge side to be glued was cleaned with denatured alcohol and not touched again after cleaning.
* The hinge lugs were not oiled or treated to prevent glue from binding them up.


TEST SAMPLES

* The hinges are glued into a 1/2" thick balsa block 1.1†apart (ensuring that each is glued to similar wood grain).
* 1/8†holes are hand drilled only to the length of the hinge, and the first 1/8†length of hole is widened to accept the wider boss of the hinge near the pivot lugs.
* The holes are centered and squared by using Robart's drill guide.
* The holes were cleaned with a shot of compressed air.
* Glue is applied to both the hinges and holes, and a toothpick is used to work the glue down into the hole.
* Per Elmer’s instructions, the hole for the Probond sample was slightly moistened with a Q-tip that had most of its cotton removed.
* The hinges are sunk as deep into the block as possible such that the hinge pins are about 1/32†from the surface of the block.
* No attempt was made to clean the glue out of the hinge lugs; excess glue was wiped clean.
* The samples were allowed to cure for 48 to 50 hours before testing.
* The balsa block is of a “medium†grade and was purchased from Lone Star Models in June 2000.


TEST SETUP

* A 1.5†x 1.5†x 1/8†angle iron was horizontally clamped in a bench vice.
* The balsa block sits on the horizontal leg of the iron and the free end of the hinge passes through a 1/2†hole in the iron.
* Large forceps are clamped to the free end of the hinge and a 5 gallon bucket is hung from the forceps. The bucket & forceps weigh 2 lbs 6 oz.
* Pennies are gradually added to the bucket from a supply of 50+ pounds of pennies.


PRE-TEST OBSERVATION

Since no attempt was made to clean the glues out of the hinge lugs, it was noted prior to the test that the RC56 hinge action was stiff while the TB hinge “broke†loose and was much easier to rotate. Both the epoxy and PB hinges “broke†free as well, but were stiffer to rotate then the TB hinge and not as stiff as the RC56 hinge.


RESULTS

The RC/56 hinge pulled out at 38 lb 13 oz (38.8 lb)

* The hinge pulled cleanly out of the block; no large chunks of balsa were removed.
* Almost no glue or balsa was attached to the hinge.
* The hinge lugs and pin were not deformed and the hinge rotated smoothly.


The Titebond hinge pulled out at 46 lb 5 oz (46.3 lb)

* The hinge pulled cleanly out of the block; no large chunks of balsa were removed.
* Some glue and balsa remnants were still attached to about 1/3 of the glue surface.
* The hinge lugs and pin are deformed & stretched; the Titebond glue held almost to the full static strength of the hinge’s plastic.


The Probond hinge broke at 56 lb 3 oz (56.2 lb)

* The glue held to the full static strength of the hinge.
* The hinge lugs broke at the hinge pin; the barbed end of the hinge remained glued in the balsa block.


The 30 min. Epoxy hinge broke at 59 lb 5 oz (59.3 lb)

* This glue also held to the full static strength of the hinge.
* The hinge lugs broke at the hinge pin; the barbed end of the hinge remained glued in the balsa block.
* The 59.3 lb failure load occurred on the second test attempt on the hinge.
* The first test ended at 46.3 lb when the forceps’s grip on the free end stripped the plastic barbs off of the hinge.
* The hinge lugs were deformed after the first attempt, but continued to hold to a failure load of 59.3 lb on the second attempt.
My tests were closer to yours. I just didn't want the naysayers screaming at me. Decided to post a way lower reading based on the unbelievable strength of these little buggers. Thanks for the detailed tests.
Old 05-11-2006 | 01:59 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

Might be dead obvious but if your drill the holes for the hinges before building wing/stab/fin it is very easy to get perfect alignment between the fixed part and the control surface. I usually drill the holes in the trailing edge then clamp the trailing edge to the control sufface (or stock if it is build up) and drill through the holes I allready drilled in the trailing edge. I use a drill press for this to get things perpendicular. Much easier than for other types of hinges.

Regards
Rcer.
Old 05-11-2006 | 03:54 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

I really wanted to use these on my Sig Mid-Star 40 but they are just too big (I bought the 1/8" ones) I measured the strip aileron material thickness and the length of hinge needed to keep two barbs (the minimum recommended length), and then calculated that the hinge hole would break out of the ailerons. I will still use them on the elevator (1/4" thick balsa) and maybe the rudder (3/16" thick- only leaves 1/32" on each side [X(])

The ailerons are standard 1" X 1/4" tapered aileron stock.
Old 05-11-2006 | 09:37 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

You can buy a bag of 50 hingepoints and it comes with the Robart drilling guide too.
Old 05-12-2006 | 04:56 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

ORIGINAL: amilder

I really wanted to use these on my Sig Mid-Star 40 but they are just too big (I bought the 1/8" ones) I measured the strip aileron material thickness and the length of hinge needed to keep two barbs (the minimum recommended length), and then calculated that the hinge hole would break out of the ailerons. I will still use them on the elevator (1/4" thick balsa) and maybe the rudder (3/16" thick- only leaves 1/32" on each side [X(])

The ailerons are standard 1" X 1/4" tapered aileron stock.
I'm not arguing with anything anyone is saying about the Robart hinges, they're great in the right application. Don't worry, your Mid-Star 40 will be just fine with CA hinges.
Old 05-13-2006 | 02:43 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

I use Robart hinges whenever I can. Nothing simpler. Drill a hole, countersink the hole for the joint, put Vaseline on the joint, epoxy the hole with a toothpick and "Voila". Glass reinforced nylon makes them super strong also!
Old 05-13-2006 | 05:20 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

How are you installing them with the reinforced nylon?


ORIGINAL: jerryZ

I use Robart hinges whenever I can. Nothing simpler. Drill a hole, countersink the hole for the joint, put Vaseline on the joint, epoxy the hole with a toothpick and "Voila". Glass reinforced nylon makes them super strong also!
Old 05-13-2006 | 09:09 PM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

Robart hinges are certainly good hinges, especially on large planes, but the Dubro flat nylon hinges with steel pin work really well on smaller planes and places where there is not enough thickness to accomodate a Robart Hinge. I use the Pacer hinge glue, no extra pins, and wild horses can't pull out these hinges. I seem to be able to get less hinge gap and hinge is less noticable than Robart, but robart looks more scale in some cases. Guess that is why they make more than one type. I am over CA hinges, they work ok but just never liked using them. My $02 worth.
Old 05-18-2006 | 03:01 AM
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Default RE: Robart Hinges: opinions

Personally I don't like 'em. I've seen more than one instance where a mild crash that did little if any damage to the airplane sheared off every single robart hinge on it even though none of the flight control surfaces were damaged at all. My vote goes to the dubro type hinges or even sig easy hinges over robarts.


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