Pat,

If you like building another one, let me know, i'll send you my kit to build it for me. You did stunningly beautiful job on it, i would hate to fly it knowing things may happen to it.

As for my original one, well that is why i can't even think on selling it, i know how much extra effort, time i had put in it, no one will give it back to me not even 3/4th of it, but i love it very much, i may try again to get the nerve back on it and fly her atleast once!.....

Keep the great work going Pat....

If it was not a pain to ship it back I would do it for ya! Thanks for the compliment. I admit I am a little nervous to fly it, but I dont want it to be a hangar queen either, that also makes me nervous. I should be ok though, as I have countless hours in the past 7 years on the sim flying this plane. Hopefully it has about the same characteristics as the sim, the only issue I am worried about is the runway being long enough, in order to get a smooth main gear landing and no stalls it has to be at 34-35 mph on touch down, at least that is what my experience on the sim has been. I know this plane is heavier than the sim due to the larger engine. We will see.

Hello,
Where is the CG on this plane at?

Well guess what Pat, i am starting to rebuild my second one now. last night i thought about it and now that season is starting soon, have to get this puppy up in air where it belongs.

I'll post my rebuild here if you guys don't mind, least this way this thread will become official GP Learjet thread. . .he he

Yeah i know, shipping will be too risky though. Well all i can suggest to you is to land it with more power then normal landing speeds, kinda high for landing until you get the right feel for it, also this will tell ya what landing tendencies are of these planes. Then once you and your plane are comfortable with each other, then you can land it accordingly with less power but alway be in control, don't let airplane control ya....

Hello selnjas,

The correct starting point for the cg is 5-13/16" from le at the root, adjust up to 3/16" for or aft. Feel free to discuss your LJ here.

Sammy, that would be awesome if you joined in!! Lets see some before and after pics.

Here we go......

These are present pictures of the damaged model, few months ago i did started to rebuild it but left it with other interests and also to give myself sometime to get over this crash.

I did worked on the wing, internal structure was cracked badly, root rib/spars were also cracked so now i will make newer ribs to reinforce cracked and damaged ones and use my nib kit as template source to assist this rebuild.

Fuselage is as is, i didn't do anything to it back then, now i am going to redo it all. I think it will be good to strip off all of the old covering and re-cover it with fresh newer covering. I am also planning to extend the fuselage about 5" in front of wing, this way this model will truly replicate real Learjet 35A/Bs...

Sam, do you predict any balance issues by moving the engine out that far? Also where do you need to lengthen it to be scale, in back of the canopy, or front or both?

Pat,

No not yet, i am still thinking about doing or not doing it. C of G will be at the same point, so with addition of fuselage plug more tail weight will be needed from what i can think at this time.
Extension plug could go in front of wing or right behind cockpit former. Basically that is where it needs to be extended.

It took me this long to get the damn engine out!, i have to cut one mount rail to get it out, screw heads were chewed!, then i also took 3/4 for the covering off all the way to engine pylons, well now if you see the way fuselage sits, it's write off basically!. It's swelled, twisted, mostly all formers are damaged, right fuselage side stiffener is badly damaged. really all that is left in this fuselage is rear end intact!, whole front is gone pretty much. Left side is also damaged in front of of engine pylon....

I will post these pictures before i do anything with it.

Well here is the starting point with this fuselage!

It looks like you may be able to scab it back together.

The tip tanks are finished, tomorrow is either going to be work on the nacelles day, or go to the field day.

I will have to try again tomorrow to upload the photos, for some reason they are all uploading at the size of a 42" tv

Yeah you got that right, same thing happened when i posted pictures in my Df Avro Arrow thread, weird na!!

Yep, as i said earlier that this LJ will fly again, so you are right, i have the fuselage 50% all
tacked up at key joints where most breaks were. I am still going to make newer formers about 3 of them to reinforce damaged ones from the back.

Some of the sheeting will have to be re-done as original sheeting is pretty cracked and beaten up at some areas.

Sammy, it looks like a LJ fuse again!! The pics are uploading so big I feel like I am there with you!!

tip tank pics, looks like the uploading giant size pics issue is fixed as these are normal.

well i posted in this at first i have one of these kits and plan to build it this coming winter fingers crossed after i finish my extra 300s projects U can see my build thread on it, I have an idea of building it with electric ducted fans, I am a nitro fan more than i am electric but the electric ducted fan stuff is neat my wife just got me one of the gp l-39s to replace my xpd-8 which was fun, well one question i have is that someone stated that the nose needs to be longer to be scale, if so how much longer, that would really help me out for the weight and balance issue that I will encounter, plan to put retracts and flaps on mine, i know the weight will be an issue more than likely so i wll use light weight servo's and all i think i may use a 70mm fan unit with a brushless set up any ideas that you guys have would be appreciated that way i can start gathering my parts up for the build.
thanks brent

The nacelles are 74mm wide side to side, and 84mm top to bottom. I would build these first as you will need to build a mounting system to adapt to the pylon, and I would use the pylons in the kit to make templates for your own pylons to work with the mounting system. You need to check the amount of thrust that the 2 fans will produce to get the thrust to weight ratio correct, you will need alot of thrust on the ground as this plane needs at least 45mph before rotation. I dont know much about how to calculate how much thrust you will need, nor do I know much about edf power. I do know about the build of this plane, and have many many hours of sim time on it and can tell you it comes out to be a heavy plane. I also am planning to make a second kit edf power, with all scale options. I would add flaps to it. The only concern that I have is will 2 70mm fans produce enough thrust to get it airborne, and can the thrust be squeezed out the back of the nacelles or will they need to be widened to non scale. With 2 li-po's, 2 esc's, 2 fans, I would suspect that this will exceed the weight of a glow engine, or be real close. This will be an interesting build, propsforever can tell you the details on lengthening the fuse.

Gee man those great tip tanks you did there, you are good with covering and painting. I do ok covering but not great, it's not my thing so let see how this LJ comes out.

Great if auto enlargement pics issue is resolved..

pat thanks for the advice how much longer would i need to make the fuse to make it scale sounds like you are already thinking of doing the same thing i am which would be nice if we both happen to start them at the same time. What i stated above is my experience with edf's which is not much at all, and my electric experience is also limited, im a nitro person and enjoy scale aerobats the most however i like trying new and different things once and a while to take spice it up a little bit, i do have a patriot with a rossi 46 and its fast i like it , i know the lear won't be that fast especially with the edf's but thought it would be cool to have a scale jet with edfs, i mean its not like im looking for an airplane that will go vertical i want it to look scale and fly scale as well.

I'm currently building gp extra 40 with mods and i am going to be using the gp mini servo's from tower for my ailerons, I went with 2 standard servos, 2 mini's, and a micro, for this setup im working on and those weigh less than 4 standard servo's and actually i beleive the two minis are lighter than one standard so this could be one way to save weight on the lear, and I plan to use that setup after i see how the minis work on the extra, i know the extra will be a lot more demanding on the ailerons than the lear, or should be atleast in theory and if the work good on the extra then i will be using those on the lear to try to save more weight,

I think the edf with dual batts, and esc will probably weight close if not lighter than the gas engine, i've thought about this a lot, the two esc's will be lighter than the throttle servo for a gasser, the batts and edf units w/motors, will probably weigh less than the engine and a full tank of fuel too, the only downside is the batts are fixed weight and won't lighten as they "burn off", but im trying to think about it from all angles. and i did some figureing, and the two 70 mm should put out the same thrust of a 40 size engine or pretty close I will dig on this a little more to try to find that out, well again thanks for the advice and hope that we can start these things pretty close together if you know when you m ight start yours I may go ahead and move it up the project list so we can bounce ideas off one another.
thanks
brent

okay i looked a 70 mm ducted fan on ebay that prodeces 990 grams of static thrust which is about 2.18 lbs of static thrust per unit so that would get you up to 4.36 pounds of thrust
I looked a 90 mm on the same ebay store it produces 1.5kg of thrust which translates to 3.3 lbs of static thrust per unit so that would get you up to 6.6 lbs of thrust which by my guess that would be pretty close to a 46 ax maybe
i found them on jet tech models on ebay

also take into account that is using they're brushless motor, if someone could stuff a bigger electric motor in there and turn more rpms with it you might be able to make more thrust, of course im sure there is a point that you may fail the fan unit if you push it to hard.

Hi Brent,

I like your views also on scaling up the GP Lear jet with EDFs but i don't think stock dummy nacelles are big enough to do this conversion. I don't have any edf experience personally, i'm just going by many who have looked this conversion and have faded away from it. Now it was few years ago and electric modelling technology have increased dramatically so if there is a way then show it to us and we will listen. Both Pat and i have spare nib kits of these LJs so we can do them as much scale as possible. Have you seen pictures of my first LJ in earlier posts of this thread, take a look at them, it was all decked out except for the stretch, i went hardcore scale with it and it become almost double in weight 13 years ago!. Whatever we do on this model we have to watch our wingloading it's very heavy at 29oz stock!. Actually i introduced the idea of stretching the fuselage by adding 5" but i am not 100% sure if i will do it or not as yet. Once my 2nd Lj's fuselage is repaired to good strength, i will look at stretching it then.

Sam

Sam thanks for the support so you say 5 inches of increase on the fuse will bring it to scale? that would be forward of the wing correct? Sam i always like trying new things and sometimes they work sometimes they don't but no fun unless u push the edge in my opinion, I beleive the 90mm fans will work, not scale looking but i think they would look better than a prop on the front, I am going to try to go with the 70mm when i do it though and put as big of an innrunner that i can in there and turn it as many rpm's as i can, im sure i'll cause a failure before its over but what the heck no risk no gain is my motto I think i will make it where i can remove the motors off of the pylon and be able to put the bigger one on there if i want to if 70mm don't work out, kind of a back up plan the way i see it the worst possible situation is its to heavy to fly and doesn't, then i just remove the electrical equipment and all install in another plane and have a good looking static model, or just throw a nitro motor on the front and fly it anyway

Wow 13 pounds, hmmm im going to have to do some serious sanding what all scale mods did you do???
one saving grace i have is that I fly my models off of the airport where we keep our full scale planes and have plenty of asphault to get a long good run for take off

yeah i seen your lear that looks awsome!!!
I wanted to do a cj-1 since i flew one once in the co-pilot seat, but then again i can babble forever about some of my ideas i want to do I also want to build a scale airtractor with a brushless electric car motor and esc that way i can reverse the motor and back it up but thats another post, btw i've already experimented some with electric car motors and esc's. in an electric super sportster