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Getting Sick of this!
First let me say that this is my first and LAST rant! I love to build from kits, yes I have put an ARF together a few times. But mt heart is in kits. Ebay is about the best place to get kits. My favorite thing USE to be going to the UN-ASSEMBELED kit section and looking for a box of sticks to turn into a plane. Now that sections is full of ARF KITS (Sick of that term)!!!! Not knocking people who fly ARF's I am not any better then them I have a few ARF's and I like them very much. I understand the need BUT THEY ARE NOT KITS!!!! I just want a place to go and find a box of sticks and sheets to glue together...
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
What about building scratch. I do that alot and even a better feeling than building a kit. I have two scratch builds on the table now. Ultra hots and cobra.
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
The point of this post is, PLEASE DON'T LIST ARF'S IN THE KIT SECTIONS! Not trying to sort out the “who is better in this the hobby”. I really don't care what folks want to build or fly just don't sell them in the wrong place.
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
"PLEASE DON'T LIST ARF'S IN THE KIT SECTIONS! "
You first need to define the term KIT. Real, full size, aircraft come in KITS, that look just exactly like an ARF; but they are still KITS. Les |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
Yea, me too. For grins I looked up "kit" in my dictionary. My favorite is "a wooden tub" - those Brits :D. The most used is probably "<span class="ssens">a set of parts to be assembled or worked up <span class="vi"><a model-airplane kit>". So what the heck is a wing half or a hinged fin / rudder? An assembly? Whoa - wow, that was a rush.
Folks that sell in ebay must have all read "ebay for idiots" where it says the more keywords that you include the more hits you add will get whether or not the keywords are accurate because the potential buyers are idiots too. Most online forum users are pretty savvy and respectful about our hobby and the terms used. So it really pisses us off when greedy "storage wars" drop outs try to sell an item that they are clueless about. Geez, if you go to my local Hobby Town and ask them an "airplane" question they get a glaze over the face and point in a general direction (usually somewhere near the men's room). Thanks for the opportunity to rant too ... </span> </span><span class="ssens"><em class="ssn">[/i]</span> |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
ORIGINAL: LesUyeda ''PLEASE DON'T LIST ARF'S IN THE KIT SECTIONS! '' You first need to define the term KIT. Real, full size, aircraft come in KITS, that look just exactly like an ARF; but they are still KITS. Les |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
You need to do better searches.
Try this sig,kit,-arf,-almost |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
And the word Vintage:eek: every thing is vintage. Kit never opened , and it is spread all over the place to take a pic.[:@]
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
"Classic" - whatever was popular when the lister was just getting into the hobby. Like classic rock-n-roll ...
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
There's not a full scale kit aircraft out there that could be considered an ARF.
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord You need to do better searches. Try this sig,kit,-arf,-almost It's the only way around it though. It is just as annoying as helicopters in the airplane section. (No disrespect to the heli guys) Tom |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
When I did a review on an ARF I had to give this a lot of thought. I finally came to the conclusion that ARFs are kits. It's like IKEA items, if you have to assemble it then it is a kit. I didn't like it but it's true. To me, a kit is a box of sticks and sheeting that you have to cut and fit to finish up with a plane, but there is no definition of how hard a kit must be or how many pieces in one. I don't like it but I got over it.
I still get a giant pissmeoff when I see anyone that calls assembling an ARF building. They have built nothing, they are gluing assembled parts together, not building anything! I come completely un-hinged when I see a reviewer in a magazine use the term building. These people are supposed to be smart enough to know the difference but I see too many of them with brain damage and using the term building there review ARF. Maybe they are trying to give there readers a little ego boost thinking they are building something? Maybe the reviewer needs that ego boost themselves??:eek: OK, the term Kit or ARF Kit I will go with and give these ARF nimrods that but ARFers, Never Never use the term building, you aren't and most of you can't. There, that was my rant. |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
I don't know. I assembled a Lanier ARF once and it sure felt more like building to me. :)
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
1 Attachment(s)
My oversimpliefied view of the RC activities. Guess that the contents of the box can contain: plans (scratch); plans, manual &some parts (short kit); plans, manual &all of the parts (kit); manual &covered assemblies (ARF); manual, covered assemblies, drive train &electronics (RTF).
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
Come on guy's. We all know what is meant when the OP say's kit's.
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
Of course - he's looking for a British bath tub.
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
Kits should be noted as BYO (build your own) or something along those lines...ARF's should be listed as 'assembly required'. That ought to confuse us even more :)
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
ORIGINAL: tailskid Kits should be noted as BYO (build your own) or something along those lines...ARF's should be listed as 'assembly required'. That ought to confuse us even more :) |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
So true....'why can't we all just get along?" :)
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
ARF- Almost Ready to Fly - something that takes less than a week to put together. Actually the fastest kit I haveput together was an Uproar in about 2 weeks. But the "kit" designation is actually perpetuated by the Chinese foamies. To them an ARF has a motor and a kit does not. [:'(]</p> I like the "-arf" in the search and did not know ebay would take that. Oh, and the other overused and abused term on ebay is "RARE", meaning I rarely sell this. And listing plans as RC aircraft is ridiculous - ebay should add another category. BTW, I also select Auction Only to get away from all the "basement hobby shops", drop shippers and black market dealers. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...wink_smile.gif</p> |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
ORIGINAL: rgburrill ARF- Almost Ready to Fly - something that takes less than a week to put together. Actually the fastest kit I have put together was an Uproar in about 2 weeks. But the ''kit'' designation is actually perpetuated by the Chinese foamies. To them an ARF has a motor and a kit does not. [:'(]</p> I like the ''-arf'' in the search and did not know ebay would take that. Oh, and the other overused and abused term on ebay is ''RARE'', meaning I rarely sell this. And listing plans as RC aircraft is ridiculous - ebay should add another category.</p> By the way, unassembled kits seems to be pretty close to what you are looking for...but stuff slips in there all the time. Plus, if you were listing and ARF to sell and you new that many people search using the word "kit" then you would put in your description "ARF kit"...so some of it is the sellers using words and phrases to maximize the hits they get on the items they have for sale. Oh well, have fun with it! Tom |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
ORIGINAL: iflyg450 ORIGINAL: LesUyeda ''PLEASE DON'T LIST ARF'S IN THE KIT SECTIONS! '' You first need to define the term KIT. Real, full size, aircraft come in KITS, that look just exactly like an ARF; but they are still KITS. Les See there is your problem, when you say: I MEAN DIE CUT LASER CUT OR PRINTED SHEETS. That is your definition of a kit, and being a free countly, fine with me. That does not mean the rest of us will adopt your understanding of a kit. And I am not saying You are wrong or right. Just that it will never happen. Refine better you search, is all I can think of. I noticed the same problem, then I was more specific about the brand of kit and model I was interested in. Of course this is limiting the results, but it also eliminated the garbage I am 100% not looking for. Not a perfect world Gerry |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
ORIGINAL: Gray Beard When I did a review on an ARF I had to give this a lot of thought. I finally came to the conclusion that ARFs are kits. It's like IKEA items, if you have to assemble it then it is a kit. I didn't like it but it's true. To me, a kit is a box of sticks and sheeting that you have to cut and fit to finish up with a plane, but there is no definition of how hard a kit must be or how many pieces in one. I don't like it but I got over it. I still get a giant pissmeoff when I see anyone that calls assembling an ARF building. They have built nothing, they are gluing assembled parts together, not building anything! I come completely un-hinged when I see a reviewer in a magazine use the term building. These people are supposed to be smart enough to know the difference but I see too many of them with brain damage and using the term building there review ARF. Maybe they are trying to give there readers a little ego boost thinking they are building something? Maybe the reviewer needs that ego boost themselves??:eek: OK, the term Kit or ARF Kit I will go with and give these ARF nimrods that but ARFers, Never Never use the term building, you aren't and most of you can't. There, that was my rant. I build models form little (or big) pieces of wood. Mostly form Balsa USA, I am one of their supporters. But I also "build" arfs, and if you do not like it, or get a giant pissmeoff, here is my advice: It is a friggggggin hobby, enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the days you have left, as every day that goes by, we have one less... I build, build, build and build ARFs. And sometimes I re-build ARF's. I am able to take an ARF, and re-kit it in seconds. I have a huge tree at the field that helps me do precisely that. I can prove this, I have the pictures... Gerry When I do not shave, by beard is also gray...:-) |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
I have built lots of kits and assembled a fair amount of ARFs. I was lucky to find a Lanier Laser 200 1/4 scale that I guess is an ARC and is really a challenge - foam wing to be sheeted, etc. What ever you want is OK; go fly!!
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
ORIGINAL: GerKonig ORIGINAL: Gray Beard When I did a review on an ARF I had to give this a lot of thought. I finally came to the conclusion that ARFs are kits. It's like IKEA items, if you have to assemble it then it is a kit. I didn't like it but it's true. To me, a kit is a box of sticks and sheeting that you have to cut and fit to finish up with a plane, but there is no definition of how hard a kit must be or how many pieces in one. I don't like it but I got over it. I still get a giant pissmeoff when I see anyone that calls assembling an ARF building. They have built nothing, they are gluing assembled parts together, not building anything! I come completely un-hinged when I see a reviewer in a magazine use the term building. These people are supposed to be smart enough to know the difference but I see too many of them with brain damage and using the term building there review ARF. Maybe they are trying to give there readers a little ego boost thinking they are building something? Maybe the reviewer needs that ego boost themselves??:eek: OK, the term Kit or ARF Kit I will go with and give these ARF nimrods that but ARFers, Never Never use the term building, you aren't and most of you can't. There, that was my rant. I build models form little (or big) pieces of wood. Mostly form Balsa USA, I am one of their supporters. But I also ''build'' arfs, and if you do not like it, or get a giant pissmeoff, here is my advice: It is a friggggggin hobby, enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the days you have left, as every day that goes by, we have one less... I build, build, build and build ARFs. And sometimes I re-build ARF's. I am able to take an ARF, and re-kit it in seconds. I have a huge tree at the field that helps me do precisely that. I can prove this, I have the pictures... Gerry When I do not shave, by beard is also gray...:-) |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
ARF = built by Chinese workers.
Kit = built by anyone else. |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
Sounds about right......maybe a "BIY" catagory....Build It Yourself?
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
ORIGINAL: Gray Beard ORIGINAL: GerKonig ORIGINAL: Gray Beard When I did a review on an ARF I had to give this a lot of thought. I finally came to the conclusion that ARFs are kits. It's like IKEA items, if you have to assemble it then it is a kit. I didn't like it but it's true. To me, a kit is a box of sticks and sheeting that you have to cut and fit to finish up with a plane, but there is no definition of how hard a kit must be or how many pieces in one. I don't like it but I got over it. I still get a giant pissmeoff when I see anyone that calls assembling an ARF building. They have built nothing, they are gluing assembled parts together, not building anything! I come completely un-hinged when I see a reviewer in a magazine use the term building. These people are supposed to be smart enough to know the difference but I see too many of them with brain damage and using the term building there review ARF. Maybe they are trying to give there readers a little ego boost thinking they are building something? Maybe the reviewer needs that ego boost themselves??:eek: OK, the term Kit or ARF Kit I will go with and give these ARF nimrods that but ARFers, Never Never use the term building, you aren't and most of you can't. There, that was my rant. I build models form little (or big) pieces of wood. Mostly form Balsa USA, I am one of their supporters. But I also ''build'' arfs, and if you do not like it, or get a giant pissmeoff, here is my advice: It is a friggggggin hobby, enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the days you have left, as every day that goes by, we have one less... I build, build, build and build ARFs. And sometimes I re-build ARF's. I am able to take an ARF, and re-kit it in seconds. I have a huge tree at the field that helps me do precisely that. I can prove this, I have the pictures... Gerry When I do not shave, by beard is also gray...:-) Good, this shows me that you have not lost your sense of humor:-) and as long as we hang on to that, we will be OK. I still did not run out of available kits I want to build, but if that day ever comes, I have a long list of plans one can have the wood cut for. As far as the frustration about the way people use the words, or assign meanings, well I know one thing or 2 about that:-) I am a linguist... ARFs is a new term, and the way people are using the word, they call it kit, and they build them. Is it the best choice? No, of course. But there are hundred of wrong word choices done every year, sad to report. And people start using the term with a certain meaning, and there is no going back. That is why they call it live languages, they grow, evolve, and change. Happy landings Gerry Balsa USA 1/4 scale PA-18, Sig 1/4 scale J3, electric Telemaster, electric 1/4 scale RV ARF, GP 1/5 scale Curtiss Hawk. Overhauling my old Balsa USA Morane Saluliner 1/3 and building a Fokker DVIII, plus some small models in RTF condition. |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
There are quite a few full size arfs out there. kits come in a few different types and assembly ranges. Ebay should differentiate a little better. I dont get the rant thing. Do you want people to sympathise or defend ebay or sell you a kit im confused?
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
I've built a couple of arfs. I say that because they were so crappy that I had to build fixes and build things correctly. They were also not 'almost' ready to do anything but suck.
Don't you love the hot glue in those things? It makes me laugh because I got paid to get those things in flying condition. |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
Why do some care so much about the distinctgion between kit and arf. If you like to build.. build.. if you prefer to assemble.. assemble... Kits are easily found if you look.. they're all ove the place.
I buy kits... i know what I mean as a kit and thats all tha matters. I also have some arfs. But I pefer to show up at the field with something no one else (which isnt to hard to do these days) and wasn't made by a chemical reaction (foam :) ). |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
KB - who would'a guessed that you liked to build kits - wow :):):):)
If ya don't have to communicate with someone else it's not important. Just kinda nice to have the illusion that you're on the same page. |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
I have 5 kits out in the shop but I keep finding new plans I like better? I figure as long as I'm still building the good lord will allow me to stick around, AKA the Winchester House:eek: It's a thought anyway? :DI have another double build right behind the one I'm working on now but I also just got another set of plans so I'm thinking I should just build one of the next in line so I can get to the new plane. At last, something not inked by Joe Demarco with all his errors. This is a new set of MAN plans, Drawn in 2010 and CAD designed, first set of perfect plans I have ever gotten from MAN. I can't locate one error yet. These would be a great set of plans for people that send there plans to a cutter. I have never gotten a set that were CAD drawn. I have been given kits that were laser cut and CAD drawn by customers but never for myself. I can't wait to get started on this build. This is the first time I have been excited by a set of plans in a long time!! Can't wait!!
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
It's kinda like pornography..... I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it!
And please stop listing old magazines in the kit section on ebay! |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
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I don't like the word "Kit" it brings to mind drug use.
"Dude, bring your kit, we'll get high". We should instead use the old English word for a bundle of sticks. "I got to work on my fagg0t in the bacement tonight". |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
<span class="ssens">To quote Wesbters "BUILD" : to form by ordering and uniting materials by gradual means into a composite whole.
According to the guru of vocabulary, there is NO segregation in the act of building whether it comes from individual sticks or preformed pieces. If one wants to spend 6 months of perfectly good flying time "building" (gluing sticks together), that is their option. If one wants to spend 6 hours "building" (some pre-assembed parts) and fly a lot (as many times as factory glue will hold), that's their option as well. This hobby would benefit greatly if the egos were left in the garage and the love of this great adventure were the main reason people showed up at a flying field. I think I enjoyed the beginning days of the ugly sticks and 40 sized beaters more than I do today when money and ego are the primary reason the pilots show up and the field. I can feel the love of the sport when a young man brings his best flying plane to the field and doesn't have to spend 2 hours unwrapping it and parking it in a certain place and direction so his everyone has to walk by it and gawk at it. My RANT OF THE DAY....going ANYWHERE with the wife and daughter and having an employee of the establishment come up and say, "HEY GUYS......" I still don't consider my wife or my daughter to be a guy! ALSO...people chose the category(s) for thier listings on Ebay. Ebay doesn't do that! Misfiled listings are the sellers option. You need to understand, the more keywords they select, the more people accidentally run across their listing. Would I want 100 X the exposure for my listing... You're damned toot'n I would! Just maybe someone will see it and buy it not even knowing they wanted one. </span> |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
Goto the RCU 2-Stroke Glow engine section and count the gas,electrics,,and turbines.
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RE: Getting Sick of this!
ORIGINAL: pmerritt <span class="ssens">My RANT OF THE DAY....going ANYWHERE with the wife and daughter and havingan employee of the establishment come up and say, "HEY GUYS......" I still don't consider my wife or my daughter to be a guy! </span> Just sayin' ... |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
It's funny... After a decade of "pre-built"/"ARF" airplanes, we've forgotten what a kit is. Sig sells its LT-40 in an "ARF" and "Kit" version. Define the differences in these two products and you will define what a "kit" is and what an "AFR" is.
Here is my take on it: If you don't "glue" anything more on the airplane than the tail and join the wing halves, you're probably holding an AFR. If you don't "sand" anything beyond the light fitting of the light-ply tank floor, it's probably an ARF. If you find yourself buying rolls of MonoKote or Ultracote, you've either crashed an AFR or are building a Kit. If you can fly it in a few days with little or no experience after having been in the hobby for less than six months, it's likely an ARF. If you have to coat bare wood in the engine compartment to fuel proof it, it's a kit (or bad AFR). If at any point in construction you're holding a lone, unattached wing rib or fus former, you're probably building a Kit. If you've been in the hobby 40 years and it still takes two weeks of skilled, dedicated, labor to get it airborne, it's likely a Kit. If there are 500 of 'em in the world the same exact color, it's likely an ARF. If there are 2 in your club exactly the same, it's probably an AFR. If you don't feel sightly like crying when it crashes, it's probably an ARF. If it came in a box 6"x6"x36", it's probably a Kit. If it came with full size plans, it's probably a Kit. If the first step in the instructions is to mount the motor mount to the firewall, it's probably not a Kit. If the fuselage is straight and the wing is not warped, and you don't know how it got that way, it's probably an AFR. If the fuselage is like a banana and the wing is a DNA double helix, it's not only a kit, it's a kit I likely built. If the plane is less than 50% light ply, it's likely a Kit. If when you open the box for the first time, an uniformed bystander can't tell if it's a boat or airplane, it's probably a Kit. If you when you close the tailgate of the family van on the wing and crush the last three rib bays, your first response is buy another plane, you're probably flying an ARF. If you cartwheel the plane on landing thereby breaking the fuselage in half and decide it'd be less time consuming to fix it than buy another, it's probably not an ARF. If the inside of the box smells like plastic covering, it's an ARF. If it smells like fresh cut wood, it's probably a Kit. If there was less than five things in your cart when you bought it, it's likely you bought an ARF. Feel free to add. Adjust opinion to taste. Bill |
RE: Getting Sick of this!
ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord I don't like the word ''Kit'' it brings to mind drug use. ''Dude, bring your kit, we'll get high''. We should instead use the old English word for a bundle of sticks. ''I got to work on my fagg0t in the bacement tonight''. |
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