Season greetings if a bit late, I found this site over the holidays. A couple of notes,
- I agree that MAAC FAI competitions are no long attract the top maac pilots - so why maac is set in heading in this area at all costs?
- pattern airplanes are designed to be easy to fly, they are almost like an aerobatic trainers, so the guys flying them look like better pilots.

Perhaps the money allocated to the ACC can be reduced to $1500.00 from $16,000, that would leave over $10,000 to promote maac at events where we could impact a larger number of future maac members.

Maybe we should be setting up MAAC displays at the major airshows across Canada and get exposure to 10,000 of potential modelers instead of continuing in our old ways. Change is difficult and not easy to accept but the world has changed around us.

To Acenomore - I hope you had an enjoyable Christmas.

Your blanket statement that MAAC FAI competitions no longer attract the top MAAC pilots is worthy of challenge, to say the least. One has to realize that MAAC members represent Canada in such diverse categories as Control Line Stunt, Free Flight Power, Indoor Rubber duration and R/C Electric soaring. We have won world championships in the past and will win more in the future. Your reference was to pattern, one of many events and, even at that, I question your contention that top pilots are not attracted. As to a pattern aircraft being akin to a trainer, I am sure that Chad Northeast will have someting to say on that issue.

Our fees to ACC are not something that we can arbitrarily determine ourselves. There is a formula that determines what each member association will pay. The formula is very favourable to MAAC. I know this, because I was, along with Colin Campbell, the person who negotiated it. At a time when we faced a huge increase, we actually walked away with a decrease. We either belong to ACC, as the controlling body of model aviation in Canada, or we choose not to belong, in which case some other group would quickly form, and we would all find ourselves without a voice to control our destiny. The cost of belonging to ACC is about two and a half percent of MAAC's overall budget. Not a large amount to be in control of ourselves, and having a voice with such authorities as the FAI, Radio Advisory Board of Canada, Industry Canada and Transport Canada. Compared to the other organizations that form ACC, our fees, on a per member basis, are pretty low - less than a buck and a half per member. For some groups, the per member fee approaches twenty bucks. As has been stated repeatedly, we are not in a "WE VERSUS THEY" situation with ACC. We are part of ACC as are all the other associations that comprise Canadian Sport Aviation.

I am all for the promotion of MAAC. Any ideas you have in that regard should be discussed with your zone director and implemented if they are feasible. We need to promote our hobby better than we are at present. Retention of existing members is actually a more important goal than attracting new ones. Our drop-out rate is too high. Many RC modellers get a trainer, learn to fly, progress to a low winger and then get bored and drop out.

Please do not regard this reply as critical. MAAC is aware of the changing demographics of our hobby and many dedicated volunteers on the Board are trying to do the best for the association in the face of all the change.

As has been said many times, MAAC has to try to be all things to all people. There are some FAI competitors who have no need of frequency protection, insurance, or protection of flying fields. A much greater percentage of their dues is allotted to areas where they receive no benefit. I have never heard any of them complain about our fees to the Radio Advisory Board of Canada, or the expense of attending their meetings. Frequency protection is a high priority and even the control line and free flight modellers acknowledge that.

As I see it, we are a large, diverse family of modellers. Whether we fly Control line Speed or R?/C helicopters, it behoves us all to support each other, competitor and sport flier alike.

A happy new year to all, and may 2006 bring peace and prosperity to MAAC.

Richard Barlow

I fail to understand the maac obession with FAI, after all FAI is only another sporting organization, it's like saying NASCAR is the end all and be all of automobiles.

If maac went to the ACC with a solid proposal negeotating a fee of $1500.00 instead of the $16,000, the ACC would have to consider that proposal, what is in the fear of trying. I'm not sure if we have 200 FAI competitors each year.

I flew pattern in the 70's & 80's, I found them the easier models to fly.
cheers - John

Hi John,

NASCAR refers to one American automotive discipline. FAI covers all sport aeronautical disciplines world wide. The comparison lacks validity.

The ACC has to pay fees to FAI. These fees are jointly shared amongst the member organizations in ACC. We already pay far less per capita than any other organization within the ACC. We have negotiated and renegotiated our contribution. Many organizations have their members contributing ten times what we do. Please read once again what is in my last post. We have the most favourable position possible right now.

I never implied that pattern aircraft are particularly difficult to fly. They fly large sweeping manoeuvres and are less "Squirrelly" than 3D types, but it does take special skills to fly them at a world championship level.

There was a situation where MAAC was briefly separated from ACC about a decade ago. Sorting out the situation cost MAAC financially and in terms of membership anger. I do not recommend that we go down that path again. To undermine the MAAC membership within ACC/FAI would split MAAC into pieces and destroy our organization.

As an RC flyer, if MAAC is currently meeting your needs, be happy that it also meets the needs of others - or at least tries to.

There have been repeated posts and explanations from people who are intimately involved in the entire ACC/FAI business. These are intelligent, honest people who are striving for MAAC's best interests. These posts paint a very clear picture if carefully examined.

I have seen no attempts by the free flight, control line, indoor and competition modellers to divert the MAAC funds that are applied to expenses totally unrelated to their pursuits. As long as their needs are met, they seem happy that others have their needs attended to.

Let us stop attacking the priorities of others and instead concentrate on ides to make our association grow and prosper.

If you have ideas in that vein, I would like to be exposed to them.

Richard Barlow

Thte is no logic in your statements becasue the CAPITA does not need or use or FAI. why can't that premise get through to the ACC.

$16,000 annually for a handful of flyer to do an activity, that is s bit extravagant don't you think for the hundred of so FAI maac competitors each year that works out to $160 per member and the board is beating up the SW zone for $2K.

If the CAPITA want to be ACC FAI members let them pay for that membership same as I pay for my IMAA and IMAC membership fees.

Why are these few getting a free ride?

Well said. It reminds me of and old poem "First they came..." it is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) about the quiescence of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.

When they came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Bottom line is that if we don't support one another, we will eithier no longer exist, or we will be dominated by one group. I only fly sport, seaplanes and combat. If for some reason I wanted to fly FAI, I'd be glad to know there was a dedicated group of modelers to support me. This doesn't mean I think we should shell out cash for nothing, or to quit looking for more cost effective ways of doing things. It just means that I think working together to reach a common goal is the best route for all members. Afterall, how many FAI flyers have never flown sport?

I was out flying sport just today!!! Now I am off to fly a little more sport indoor!!

COD2 rocks man!!! I am past the D-Day campaigns now and into Normandy.....they have a misson for the landings at Pointe Du Hoc, it was eerie as I visited the bunkers there this summer and walked all around it....they did a very good job at recreating the scenery.

I get my COD2 tomorrow at my inlaws. I downloaded a patch for my original COD and it disabled all the cheats. In one way, I'm glad because it makes it more intense to play. But on the other hand, I hate to lose. I'm a little divided on this issue [:@]

So what were you doing at Pointe Du Hoc? I love WWII history and would love to go there. But, my next trip is going to be here at Philipsburg / St. Maarten - Princess Juliana (SXM / TNCM)

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...next_id=047556

Wow thats an amazing picture

After the Worlds (as they were in France) we toured around and I felt it very important to visit the D-Day beached most importantly Juno beach and Dieppe. Pointe Du Hoc is one of the best places we found to actually see anything as most of it has been cleaned up and is in museums along the beaches. The bunkers, craters, gun placements etc are all "intact" I guess you could say.

Anyways its a very powerful/emotional place to visit and I am glad I went. Although we only spent two days there which is not nearly enough to see everything.

Cheating on the Xbox requires the system to be modded, so that pretty much eliminates that Its a difficult game, but lots of fun

Sorry to contradict you. F.A.I. contestants do not get a free ride. Before you make that assertion, check the cost of an FAI Sporting licence. Every contestant has to buy one out of his own pocket. I would doubt that IMAC and IMAA combined cost that amount.

The other assertion that I keep seeing is that membership in ACC only affects FAI flyers. Not True. Our membership in ACC establishes MAAC as the governing body of all aeromodelling in Canada. Do you want some other body to sieze control of aeromodellig? I don't.

There is a big picture here, and this has to be realized. Simplistic self-centred "solutions" will not help MAAC. Concentrate on the real need - getting and retaining mrmbers.

Richard Barlow

That is a big pile horse manure and a threat to scare the every day maac members from asking what does acc to for us - similiar to today's federal campaign threat - if you don't support us, then the ......................................... maac members are not dumb.


IF Aero Club of Canada (ACC) had any authority why then are not the following groups part of Aero Club of Canada

Canadian Owners and Pilots Association (COPA) (in fact COPA left ACC, why?)
Air Transport Association of Canada
Canadian Seaplane Pilots Association
HAC


the only thing acc governs are model airplane fai competition rules

as for aviation and model aviation

the federal government through Transport Canada set the rules and regulations

fromer MAAC president had a large role in working with Transport Canada

>maac members are not dumb.

Very true. However, a few apparently suffer from 'tunnel vision' and are consistently unable to perceive the whole picture no matter how precisely, and often, it is presented......

well, got it loaded. 6 cd's for the computer version of the game (3.43gb). It starts out on the Russian front and you have to play a few missions before it unlocks one of the British missions. first the basic training, that ends up being attacked. The graphics are the best I've seen to date. 1280x720 resolution, and all the eye candy on. Good thing. I don't feel like upgrading just after christmas spending.

I also got season 4 of Married with children, so it's hard to try and "prioritize" my time.

I just finished it up today Oh man its tough at the end....took a lot of work....so many guys to shoot...you will learn to love the smoke grenade and sniper rifles After you finish the russian campaign, you do the British, then one American, then back to a British, and then again back to American and into Germany and thats it. Yep the graphics are awesome Now I have to go back and complete some of the missions on Veteran difficulty....some of them are going to be nearly impossible though!!

Married with Children LOL, I have not seen that show in years

When does the misindformation stop.

In fact, the ACC is the Canadian delegate to FAI that represents all competition and records for all aviation ... not just model aircraft.

A word to the (un?)wise .... never go unarmed into a battle of wits.

...........either way, Be they toys or real, it's just records. Right?

Sadly, the misinformation will never stop.

There are those within MAAC that accept that the organization is for every member, and those that do not. The control line flyers do not need frequency protection, those flying light free flight models do not need insurance, sport flyers do not need the FAI. The vast majority of modellers are quite happy to help cover the cost of services that they do not personally need, knowing that others do need them. As long as they get what they want from MAAC, they are happy that others do likewise.

There exists a group of malcontents that cannot accept that every member has a right to his discipline. These folk would drive out of MAAC all those that do not think as they do, and fly what they fly. Fot the sake of a small percentage of their annual dues, they are prepared to foment dischord and resentment. Sad, but true.

Happily the vast majority of our membership is unselfish and thinks of interests other than their own. Although the number of FAI competitors is comparatively small, the support for them (as shown by a legitimate survey) is substantial.

Thus there will always be some who are determined to spoil the fun of others, and a majority who think globally.

The concept of FAI flyers getting a free ride was dispelled in a previous post, but you can bet that there will still be claims that MAAC pays the way, first class, for a select few. The reality is that MAAC's support of their internatiional competitors is amongst the lowest in the world.

I cannot wait to see the howls of protest that this post will bring. Prepare yourself for more misinformation.

Richard Barlow

You are quite correct Richard. Unfortunately, we live in a world where some folks think much more about themselves, rather than all of our modeling friends as a whole.

As someone who has been a modeler and a MAAC member for more than 30 years, I have seen it time and time again. Witness the attempts by a select few, to remove rockets and Giant Scale from within MAAC altogether. Fortunately, as you pointed out, they are in the minority.

I have never competed within the FAI myself, and probably never will. Id be the first to admit I probably don't have the talent to compete on the world level. But, I don't for one second, want to hold back those who can and do for a less than $2.00 per year from my yearly MAAC dues.

Come on folks... many of us spend more than that each day on coffee!

Happy New Year Everyone!

I love these cup of coffee guys, always willing to spend my money. Do we ever see their names on the maac donation list, if a cup of coffee a day is not big deal to them, why don't we see a $365.00 donation from them, surely ther must be a thousand of these maac types, so $365 x1000 = $365,000 for maac - yeah right!

What did we see for 2005 A lot of talk and $ 2859.

I've been a maac member for 30 years too and I would not give $16,000 to the ACC ( Aero Club of Canada) or ( A Cup of Coffee).
I would give them an amount relative to the 100 or so FAI MAAC members in MAAC -.

and who really cares if mike maac set a record in the salt mines, I'm sure mike's buddies would be envious over coffee time and make Mike buy.

get a life!

All this maac toy airplane stuff aside.......... I really hate that "only a cup of coffee" stuff too. There is nothing wrong with trying to get value for the buck.

In the real world, all the goverment corruption scandals over the past few years can also come down to a couple of cups of coffee each, but it still isn't right.

Are we all conditioned/apathetic enough that we no longer demand any value for our collective bucks at any level? It seems a lazy way to think. IMO.

Happy New Year.

If your unhappy with the way "your money" is being spent, there are procedures "you" can take to change that. Since you have also been a MAAC member for more than 30 years, I'm sure I don't have to explain to you what those are.

Ive been to quite a # of zone meetings in "our" zone, [SE] including the last 3 or 4 years. I don't recall any such discussions at those meetings...

I wont be responding any further here on this forum. I have much more important things to do with my time, than to continue to debate less than a lousy $2.00 of your MAAC dues with you.

I do indeed "have a life!"

Again, Happy New Year!

I've been to zone meetings - how boring, thank God for the proxy.

There are number of ways to change MAAC, I have learned may things of this forum, for instance MAAC pays:
$0.00 for maac members to compete in IMAC
$0.00 for maac members to fly in IMAA
$0.00 for maac members to compete in Combat
$0.00 for maac members to compete in Top Gun
$0.00 for maac members to compete in Scale Masters

$16,000 for handful maac members to compete in FAI when not even our best flyers are competing esle where.

and to boot, if MAAC had some sharper pencils we could be paying $1500.00 like the ballon guys, instead maac has let the ACC take MAAC to town and base the ACC fee on 13,000 maac members instead of the 100 or so that play in the FAI area.

Like Sharpie said, we could all pay a cup of coffee a day over the sponsorship scandal and be under the Liberal mark.

We should be members of the ACC but lets not get hosed on the fee.

The purpose of this thread is patently obvious.

It permits a handful of anti-FAI (and, sometimes, anti-MAAC) people to fulminate and vent to their heart's content, totally regardless of clear and reasoned clarifications and explanations presented in response ... apparently oblivious to the fact that the balance of MAAC's 13,000 members are contentedly enjoying their sport and hobby, supporting their organisation without whining about how their modest subscription monies are dispersed, and quietly proud of Canadian achievements of their fellows on the World scene - no matter what the diverse interests of those competitors might be.

It's easy to criticise from the sidelines without making any positive effort to present your views at AZM's and/or your ZD; least of all to step forward and take a real part in MAAC affairs. You're not alone, this happens in any gathering, club or organisation - no matter of what size or purpose - while others do the work for the good of the whole.

Carry on , fellows ... it's good for your blood pressures, which might be lowered even more if you just went flying ....

I have to disagree, I have found the posts tend to ask whether spending $16,000 to the ACC for a few maac members is good value for the membership, considering MAAC spends nothing on other groups.

Is it worth $16,000 - as a long time maac member I have to say no to the value. The amound is high in realtion to the benefits. We should be looking a lot smaller fee.

Well --- that's no fun -- now you're trying to be sensible & rational. That doesn't fit with internet forums very well -- the other reason for this thread is to see who has the lights on, & who has a sense of humour.

The lights-on thingy is often readily apparent (not choosing any sides here), but the humour aspect, while seemingly transparent, is really deeper & darker. The lights are burning there all right -- just hidden under smoke, mirrors & deliberate obfuscation.