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FAI

Old 12-23-2005, 10:54 AM
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bbbair
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Default FAI

As suggested, I looked up the FAI on the web (GOOGLE is such a wonderful thing), here is what I found;

FAI is the world air sports federation, founded in 1905. It is a non-governmental and non-profit making international organisation with the basic aim of furthering aeronautical and astronautical activities worldwide.

Main page;
http://www.fai.org/

Aeromodelling section;
http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/

Quoted from the FAI website
What FAI does
FAI activities include the establishment of rules for the control and certification of world aeronautical and astronautical records. FAI establishes regulations for air sporting events which are organised by member countries throughout the world. FAI also promotes skill, proficiency and safety in aeronautics. FAI confers medals, diplomas and other awards to those who have contributed to the achievement of these aims as well as for work done in the restoration of old aircraft.
In achieving these goals, FAI brings together people who take part in air sports from all over the world. They share the delight of gliding, the excitement of parachuting and ballooning, the fun of flying microlights and exercise their skill in aerobatics.
Within the framework of FAI, each air sport has an International Commission which is responsible formaking the rules for competitions and which generally oversees the activies of their particular air sport.
All FAI Contests, Championships and Record Setting activities are conducted under the direction of the FAI Air Sport Commissions. Other matters are dealt with by FAI Technical Commissions. These are listed later.
Regulations, rules or recommendations which have been accepted by the Commissions during their annual meetings are followed up by the delegates themselves at the national level and with Member-countries which need help developing their air sports.


http://www.fai.org/about/2

Translation; they are a group of people that promote international competition in a wide variety of Aeronautical endeavours and set the guidelines / rules for these competitions.

POINT of note:
It has nothing to do with the protection of frequencies within North America.
It only has relevance to those few persons that wish to compete INTERNATIONALLY.

Let the debate begin!
Old 12-23-2005, 11:01 AM
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Default RE: FAI

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Old 12-23-2005, 11:46 AM
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Jim_McIntyre
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Default RE: FAI

[quote]ORIGINAL: bbbair
ORIGINAL: bbbair
... here is what I found;

...the basic aim of furthering aeronautical and astronautical activities worldwide.
...

POINT of note:
... It only has relevance to those few persons that wish to compete INTERNATIONALLY.
I contest your point and offer your own post by way of debate.
Old 12-23-2005, 01:15 PM
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bbbair
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Default RE: FAI

Ok Jim;
Your challenge to my interpretation is noted.

Please tell me how you would interpret the FAI site.

"... furthering aeronautical and astronautical activities worldwide." is a lofty goal and sounds wonderful, but all that I saw on their site was competitions, awards etc.

I'm still looking for the reason for Canada (nee MAAC) to belong to this organization. A chosen few folks that enjoy competing - certainly (let them register individually).

I just don't see why some 13,000 MAAC members are paying to support an international regulatory commission that benefits - perhaps 200 of our members.

IMHO
Old 12-23-2005, 01:39 PM
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Default RE: FAI

ORIGINAL: bbbair


I'm still looking for the reason for Canada (nee MAAC) to belong to this organization.
IMHO
Keeping everyone entertained during the winter with the endless posts about it is one reason to belong

Without them what else would you have to do.....build? Watch Dr. Phil?.....boring.

let them register individually
Gladly...but alas its not an alternative at this point.....hopefully in the future.
Old 12-23-2005, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: FAI


ORIGINAL: can773

ORIGINAL: bbbair


I'm still looking for the reason for Canada (nee MAAC) to belong to this organization.
IMHO
Keeping everyone entertained during the winter with the endless posts about it is one reason to belong

Without them what else would you have to do.....build? Watch Dr. Phil?.....boring.

LOL...........that's good
Old 12-23-2005, 05:29 PM
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bbbair
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Default RE: FAI

Chad;

I’m so glad that we can keep you entertained during the long cold Calgary winters.

Personally; I have two planes on the bench and three more in boxes awaiting my attention, and I find them much more entertaining than you.

Locating the FAI website was a minor diversion for me and I had hoped that it would help out all those who have created myths about the “Big Bad FAI” based on rumours. [:'(]

My original comments amount to two lines, after that an opinion and question.

Canada is a wonderful country and it allows us to have opinions and ask questions, whether we live in Ontario OR Alberta. (Even the folks in Manitoba are allowed to join in.)

So now that everyone has the FAI address, they can read all about it for themselves and then ask Dave all sorts of wonderful questions based on facts. [X(]

Here’s hoping that everyone has a Wonderful Christmas!!
Old 12-23-2005, 05:45 PM
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Ed Smith
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Default RE: FAI

I just don't see why some 13,000 MAAC members are paying to support an international regulatory commission that benefits - perhaps 200 of our members.
Because that is just one of the many services that the M.A.A.C. offers to it's members. I could argue that why should some of my membership money be used to support Scale Aerobatics, Free Flight, Rockets and on and on if I have no interest in those activities. I do not need a club. Maybe my membership fee could be reduced if club and field insurance was not offered.

The M.A.A.C. offers a package of services to it's members. Not all members need or use them all. I do not understand the downright selfish attitude of those that would remove the services that they do not use. Why should they consider other peoples needs? It is Me, Me, Me.

I get truly annoyed when I walk into a Hobby store and see valuable, costly floor space full of car and boat JUNK. Get rid of that stuff, reduce the store size and pay less rent. Pass the savings on to the aeromodelers. What an attitude!

Fortunately most of US are decent considerate people and support the interests of others. It is the loudmouth minority on the idiotnet that seem to have the problems.

Ed S
Old 12-23-2005, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: FAI

Ed:

We've attempted to move away from comparing the different SIGS by simply trying to figure out what it is MAAC (all of us collectively) gets from the FAI?

Do we get value. Where does our money actually go if absolutely none of it seems to come back to us? ACC pays over 30 grand every year, yet our members still have to purchase licences on top of that? We also pay for the FAI rep to go to France once a year. That's a pile of coin for nothing more than a privilege to say we are affiliated. Multiply that by 100 countries, some with higher fees yet? I get the sense us modellers are subsidising full-scale aviation or worst case scenario, paying for non-airplane fun and travel for a select few. Seems like it would be a pretty good gig to be an FAI judge and travel around the world on someone's dime. Good work if you can get it. Nothing to do with Ed Smith, or Chad Northeast or Ken Kalynuk.....
Old 12-23-2005, 07:20 PM
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Default RE: FAI


ORIGINAL: Ed Smith

I just don't see why some 13,000 MAAC members are paying to support an international regulatory commission that benefits - perhaps 200 of our members.
Because that is just one of the many services that the M.A.A.C. offers to it's members. I could argue that why should some of my membership money be used to support Scale Aerobatics, Free Flight, Rockets and on and on if I have no interest in those activities. I do not need a club. Maybe my membership fee could be reduced if club and field insurance was not offered.

The M.A.A.C. offers a package of services to it's members. Not all members need or use them all. I do not understand the downright selfish attitude of those that would remove the services that they do not use. Why should they consider other peoples needs? It is Me, Me, Me.

I get truly annoyed when I walk into a Hobby store and see valuable, costly floor space full of car and boat JUNK. Get rid of that stuff, reduce the store size and pay less rent. Pass the savings on to the aeromodelers. What an attitude!

Fortunately most of US are decent considerate people and support the interests of others. It is the loudmouth minority on the idiotnet that seem to have the problems.

Ed S
Ed has hit the nail squarely on the head. MAAC is a package deal. Those few souls who venture into that notorious Roumanian salt mine to fly their one gram indoor models, have no need of frequencies, fields or insurance, but I have never heard one of them complain about the cost of these services, because they are of benefit to others.
We all have different needs and interests. MAAC tries to meet all of these needs and, in my experience, has done a remarkable job of doing so. Regardless of who has been at the helm, there are enough checks and balances in the system to keep model flying on an even keel.
MAAC has the right to be called the governing body of all model aviation in Canada. MAAC addresses the needs of all model aviators in Canada. I am very glad that it does.
Let us all try to be generous and tolerant when consideraing the needs and sacred cows of others.

Richard Barlow
Old 12-23-2005, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: FAI

yeah, but what value are we getting from the FAI. What do we get from them for all that money?
Old 12-23-2005, 10:34 PM
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Default RE: FAI


ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

yeah, but what value are we getting from the FAI. What do we get from them for all that money?
Hi Marc,

I honestly do not know what F.A.I. does with their income. I am not involved at that level. Jack Humphreys is probably the best person to ask.

Are we getting value for our money? Good question. I do not know that either. I just know that if we default on payment, Canada ceases to be represented on the international scene. You know me well enough to know that I am not prepared to see that happen.

Because I happen to live on the banks of the St. Lawrence river, I pay $4,500.00 a year in residential taxes. On the other side of the street, thay pay less than half that. In town, for homes with less acreage, they pay less still, while getting sewage, garbage pickup, snow removal, tap water and protection from fire. I get none of that. For my taxes, I get zip, zero, nadda!!!. They even canned our local police force. I guess that is why I get less exceited about the couple of bucks of my MAAC dues that apparently dissapear into thin air when thay reach the FAI.

I suppose I have to accept being hosed by the local taxation people, because I like swimming, boating and fishing out of my back yard. Come on down for a swim yourself some time, but wait until July, unless you want to break the ice first.

Merry Christmas, to you and your family.

Cheers

Richard
Old 12-24-2005, 12:47 AM
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Default RE: FAI

Nothing that is unfair needs to be accepted in any organization at any level.

Acceptance is defeat.................or in Canada's National example, another Liberal government.

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well Richard.

Take care.

Marc
Old 12-24-2005, 07:53 AM
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Ed Smith
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Default RE: FAI

Richard wrote:

Come on down for a swim yourself some time, but wait until July, unless you want to break the ice first
.

Richard,

A generous invitation. However make sure you charge them for the privilege. After all they are complaining about some of us not paying our way!

Ed S
Old 12-24-2005, 08:39 AM
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Default RE: FAI

No, I am not Ed.

"what value are we getting from the FAI. What do we get from them for all that money?"
Merry Christmas.
Old 12-24-2005, 08:41 AM
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Default RE: FAI

Ed has hit the nail squarely on the head. MAAC is a package deal.
That is one lame excuse, to pay $16,000 for maac flyers to fly in certain FAI events who may not be the best flyers in maac.

I say this with no slight to fai flyers, for in my area the best flyers are flying IMAC (no ACC, no FAI needed), Scale Masters(no ACC, no FAI needed), Top Gun (no ACC, no FAI needed).

Should we not then introduce a policy to pay everyones fees to join IMAC, IMAA, Scale Masters, etc., why is there this prejudice in MAAC for one area in competition.

The maac members that wish to compete in fai are getting a bonus and will fight tooth and nail to keep this perk.

As for what ACC does, fees minutes, etc we usual run around, ask Jack, ask Bob, ask your zone rep.
Old 12-24-2005, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: FAI

ORIGINAL: extra300xs


That is one lame excuse, to pay $16,000 for maac flyers to fly in certain FAI events who may not be the best flyers in maac.

I say this with no slight to fai flyers, for in my area the best flyers are flying IMAC (no ACC, no FAI needed), Scale Masters(no ACC, no FAI needed), Top Gun (no ACC, no FAI needed).

Should we not then introduce a policy to pay everyones fees to join IMAC, IMAA, Scale Masters, etc., why is there this prejudice in MAAC for one area in competition.

The maac members that wish to compete in fai are getting a bonus and will fight tooth and nail to keep this perk.

As for what ACC does, fees minutes, etc we usual run around, ask Jack, ask Bob, ask your zone rep.
You obviously have no clue.....

The current IMAC national champion...Ivan K. flew in more F3A world championships than any other person in Canada, he has placed 3rd at least one and in the top 10 many times. There are many other ex-pattern fliers flying IMAC today in both the US and in Canada with many of them still competeing in pattern and some at the World Champs. Those skills developed by those flyers competeing in the WC have been passed along to everyone, non FAI competitor alike.

To make a blanket statement like the above is simply uneducated and uniformed....and without a name attached to it leaves even less credibility in your post.

Old 12-24-2005, 12:35 PM
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Default RE: FAI

The current IMAC national champion...Ivan K. flew in more F3A world championships than any other person in Canada, he has placed 3rd at least one and in the top 10 many times
This brings up three points
1) It cost MAAC nothing for IVAN to fly IMAC - to have a second level flyer go to Poland on an FAI junket costs MAAC $16,000 for the "need" of that person.

2) Ivan was the end of an era, where the top flyers in MAAC were soing the FAI thing, not any more, the top flyers in MAAC are doing IMAC, Scale Masters, Top Gun etc. I've seen our current pattern team fly, they are good but not the best flyers in Canada.

3) When Scale 2002 was in their back yard a few scale modelers found the "need" to compete in FAI scale and represent MAAC. These were fine flyers but not our best scale flyers and builders. Two years later when the FAI scale was overseas and it needed more of a commitment, there was not MAAC team, go figure.

Clearly for the majority of maac members FAI events are no big deal any more, donations to the maac museum out paced donations to the FAI teams.

Maybe MAAC should look into a FAI museum assocation and spend $16,000 on that.
Old 12-24-2005, 02:14 PM
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Default RE: FAI

ORIGINAL: extra300xs


2) Ivan was the end of an era, where the top flyers in MAAC were soing the FAI thing, not any more, the top flyers in MAAC are doing IMAC, Scale Masters, Top Gun etc. I've seen our current pattern team fly, they are good but not the best flyers in Canada.

Thanks for the insult...you have shown nothing more than the low class character that you have.

I am sorry sir, but I have never met you and to my knowledge you have never seen me fly.

Get a clue.

Nice to hide behind the anonymity of the internet....if you had some brass maybe you would share your name with such bold unfounded comments.
Old 12-24-2005, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: FAI

Thanks for the insult...you have shown nothing more than the low class character that you have.
No insult, just an observation, you are good but not the best, your standings indicate that, besides pattern flying is waning, Ivan was great, you have a way to go.
Old 12-24-2005, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: FAI

ORIGINAL: extra300xs
I've seen our current pattern team fly, they are good but not the best flyers in Canada.
That's because they don't use the 30' streamer to fly properly

Yes, it is too bad that the internet isn't more personal. Likely %50 of the things said wouldn't be said in person. I'd say the things I say, but I'm kind of like that. [>:]

Don't be surprised if we cross paths someday, I've been known to show up in places (even ask Britbrat and BBair) I was in Calgary last year, too bad I didn't know of you then. We could of had a beer. I also plan to hit an overtaxed property on a river for some swimming, boating and fishing this summer, if the wife will allow it. If not, I'll get a new wife I really do enjoy meeting people I talk to on the net...........the judge called it stalking but......

Did you get COD2 yet? I'll be getting it for christmas!
Old 12-24-2005, 04:25 PM
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Default RE: FAI


ORIGINAL: Jason Holdaway



I also plan to hit an overtaxed property on a river for some swimming, boating and fishing this summer, if the wife will allow it. If not, I'll get a new wife

[/quote]
...... and you would be more than welcome. There is one "Caveat"; If you are put in a position of needing a new wife, you can't have mine. Bring yours if you can.

Richard
Old 12-24-2005, 06:18 PM
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Default RE: FAI

ORIGINAL: Jason Holdaway


Did you get COD2 yet? I'll be getting it for christmas!
Yep, pounding through the campaign on hardened difficulty...hope to have it finished before I go back to work on Wed. It is a superb game in single player, but still has yet to compete with Halo 2 on XB Live.

Also been playing it on Xbox Live...in between bouts of Halo 2

The 360 rocks as well, amazing what it can do outside of gaming

Old 12-24-2005, 06:23 PM
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Default RE: FAI

ORIGINAL: extra300xs

Thanks for the insult...you have shown nothing more than the low class character that you have.
No insult, just an observation, you are good but not the best, your standings indicate that, besides pattern flying is waning, Ivan was great, you have a way to go.
Whatever buddy......you observations are insulting

Again please post your name. If you wish you can PM it to me.....
Old 12-24-2005, 07:39 PM
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Default RE: FAI

ORIGINAL: gingertoad

If you are put in a position of needing a new wife, you can't have mine. Bring yours if you can.

Richard
Yah, I'll bring her. I'm going to need a DD Besides, where could I find another women who will put up with the crap I pull? [X(] It would be nice if they were a dime a dozen, but it just ain't so

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