Hello all, I am not sure what has taken me longer getting my bcppoff the ground or reading this entire thread...lol
Have learned quite a bit from everyone's comments. Anyways I was hoping for some advice on being a newb and on a gyro.
I have had my bcpp for a llittle over a week and have been hitting it hard out of the gates. I hv 3 batts and a couple of days I have flown as fast as they will charge.
So I am in about 20-25 flights now and from following radds have been able to well master tail in hover. I am starting to get side in and have tried nose in a few times and since im inside my house and dont have training wheels I get very nervious and can only keep her up about 15-20 seconds nose-in. (ya thanks to RADD I have learned to hover with no training gear and have had no major crashes...but I cant get to high inside so maybe that has something to do with it... Thanks Radd) Anyways I am very eager to get my orentation down so I can go try some real flying around outdoors.

So anyways I am getting more comfortable at constantly using the rudder in hover since the trim just wont stay set for long as the batt drains, I am sure that this has been good for training my thumbs,
so I am wondering if I should keep learning without a hh gyro to further train my thumbs to do everything at once or should I get a hh gyro. I am pretty sure that a tail that stays completely put will help my nose-in learning, but I dont want to do that if learning with it will hinder my skills at a later time. Also will I outgrow the HH once I can fly well or is it something you keeps using even when your an expert pilot?

Basically it sounds like the HH gyro will make flying easier but I want to make sure that I am really learning what I need to know. Like when you take the training wheels off a kids bike they may have been riding that bike for a year with the training wheels but they will still have to learn to ride without them.

Anyways I would appriciate any input and any recomendations on a cheeper gyro that the g90.

Also I am curious where some of the folks who have posted heavily on this thread are in their flying abilities. Are you all expert level or are any of you still some what new. Did you guys master this machine before any of the upgrades or are there some upgrades that may also benefit a newb like me?....This is my first heli and I am very clueless as to much of anything other than the very basics, so please be kind and over eexplain any advice you may have for me...
thanks everyone....Noah

So another 100 bucks and I am sure I am finished with my pro! Yeah, Right! [8D]

Got the microheli swash, align stainless balls, tie rods and sockets... Notice I have align balls on the entire swash everywhere except where the loops hook to the swash.

Man these balls and sockets are super smooth, no slop..

I also mounted the balls on the HS55 servo arms dumping the S bends and stock sockets!

Then I got the Microheli autorotation main gear/hub and the stainless main shaft....

It fit right on, silky smooth and the motor stops as the blades continue to rotate down completely quiet. It is VERY smooth and cool.....

The main gear is much thicker and is true round! Main shafts are 8 bucks to replace now... Shaft is separate from the gear now!

Wow rob I'm seriously jealous. You went way farther that I have gone, but I'll catch up, you'll see!
The autorotation gear is great, I didn't know about that. Is there enough blade inertia do actually_do_ an autorotation, I wonder? Hmmm---maybe I'll let _you_ try that one first.....
So you got the balls to fit on the inner swash--no clearance problems, I'll have to take another look at mine...

noguy great to hear about your flying experiences! I believe that you are doing it right--there were heli pilots long before there were micro gyros after all. The gyro is a great aid and will help you learn, but if you can stand the slower curve you will be a better pilot if you learn without it. Should you get one? Yes, absolutley. Who can stand the slower curve?

My flight experience is like this: mostly actually sitting in full size fixed-wing aircraft, 2500 hours+ as pic, sailplane flight instructor, tow pilot, jump pilot, aircraft mechanic (with some heli experience), r/c planes since I was a little kid.
But I am very new to r/c helicopters--you will note that almost all of my posts have to do with set-up, maintenance, or crash repair (or crashing!) and very little about flying, except of course where my own experiences as a newbie can be helpful.

Yes, no clearance problems at all!

Here is the part number of the socket and rod set that had what I needed to get them all in...

Align Landing Rod Set SE/CF
Model No: HS1119T $3.99

Jellyson...
Thank You very much for the reply....so you say I will be a better pilot if I continue learning without HH, but you say get it....I think I am still just as confused as to what I should do....
Another question....on the HH gyros with 2 modes HH and SR....is SR what is stock in the 3in1 and the HH mode is the only part that my stock bird doesnt have?

can you recomend any other mods that would make the heli more stable so that I can divert a little more attention to working on my orientaion?

hee hee
I can say the following without even seeing you fly:
You, my friend, are going to be a fine pilot. If you get a heading hold gyro you will be a fine pilot sooner. If you don't get a heading hold gyro, you will be a fine pilot, perhaps even finer in the looonngg run, but it _will_ take longer.
Myself, I don't think I'd have the patience to do orientation practice without a gyro. That's me, I get discouraged easily. But you have already passed beyond that point, and you have done it without a gyro.
So get a gyro.
You will be glad you did, and you will also be glad you learned without one.

I stopped making sense a long time ago, so don't worry....

This reminds me of the heat-related yaw issue with cx/cx2. I did everything to try to cure it, finally realized that it didn't matter to me any more because somehow I learned, in all the testing I did, to fly the rudder. Now, with the coax helis, I just ignore trim changes and fly the silly thing. I'm not quite at that point yet with the BCPP.

The gyro in the 3-in-1 is in some kind of standard rate mode i guess, the performance isn't that great so it's hard to say. The tail-motor system in the BCPP has a hard time keeping up with any decent gyro (the G90 is fine in my experience, the LHS recommends it over the rce500x). Most people who put external gyros in the BCPP probably stay in HH mode, I know I do.

The BCPP is designed to be useful for acro flight, so it is not supposed to be "stable". It should not be unstable either, and the stability can be improved by taking the slop out of the linkages. What we are striving for is technically called "neutral stability." A stable aircraft is like a marble sitting in a bowl, no matter what you do to it it will try to return to the center of the bowl. Obviously this is undesireable in an acrobatic aircraft. An unstable aircraft is like a marble sitting on top of a bowling ball. As long as it is in place it is OK, but the slightest deviation tends to increase and the marble goes sliding off into oblivion. This is called "divergence". Unstable aircraft need computer assistance to be flown by ordinary mortals. Examples of unstable aircraft include the f117 fighter and the b-2 bomber.
Neutrally stable is like a marble sitting on a sheet of glass. It stops, it goes, it slides, it keeps doing just what it was doing until you tell it to do something else. This is what we strive for in an acrobatic aircraft.

So if you have a bit of slop and poor control response, you can make the helicopter more responsive and less unpredictable by removing the slop and play in the linkages and servos. There is a _lot_ of info on these thrreads about how to do that.

Sorry about the long post. You got me into flight-instructor mode for sure, how do you turn it off, my tail is wagging...
No wait....


( There are several way to actually make the BCPP more _stable_ like increasing the all-up weight, using flybar weights, adding fins, etc. These things do increase the stability. They also decrease the acro ability. Is this what you really want? I didn't think so.)

What do you think, robmoney? choppersrule/dave? barracudahockey? H_H? anyone?

what's the single most handling improving mod for the BCPP?

I'd have to say the aluminum swash with the align links.

The single best performance mod, after the gyro, is the DD tailfeathers for sure.

Any other opinions to get noguy's bird tightend up?

Thank You again jellyson,

I have been getting very frustrated with nose in and getting very impatient with my learning in this orientation....
I think I will have to order a g90 or similar tonight....can you recomend a comparable one with a smaller price tag?
When learning nose in did you start by gradually yawin around to nose in or doing takeoffs from nose in.... I have tried both ways and sometimesnose in just makes my brain overload and shutdown and I have almost lost my shins twice from it.....

As far as stability my problem may be the stock radio and have not expo makes center stick very touchy....i am getting used to it now but it can still be very difficult to bring the heli into a very still hover due to the fact than when I am still and sense the thing getting ready to drift one way or another it takes ever so light of a momentery nudge of the stick to correct without overcorrecting.

when upgrading to the spectrum that all you guys are using, Can I just but the TX and run it on the stock 3in1? or not and what is the estimated cost of this radio upgrade.....
Also I noticed getting a feel for the throttle on the stock radio was very difficult for me a first....RADD was my only saviour there.

yea eceryone dont leave jellyson hangout with this newb all alone...

Also is the DD needed for proper performance with the HH gyro.... or only after I am well beyond just hovering.....

You are welcome.
Alternate gyro: telebee, zoom, rce500x
I started nose in way up high, and also by pausing briefly in figure eights--not that I can do it very well for more than a few seconds yet...
I can take off nose-in but not properly, more like a blast-off.

Yeah, followers of these threads know that I needed expo and dual rates to get my bcpp flying at first, the Spektrum system was well worth the money for me. But I stopped using it (the expo) after the first day, all it takes is a bit of confidence and discipline on the sticks.

You have to use both the transmitter and the receiver of the Spektrum system. It will cost about 200 US retail but I'll bet you can get one a lot cheaper if you shop around. It has 10 model memories though, it's a long term investment and you will use it for a long time. The DX7 is even better but I'd still recommend using the AR6000 rx (from the dx6, it's smaller)

You can modify the feel of the throttle clicker by opening up the radio and doing various things to the notches or the slider on the left stick. Some people believe that helicopter throttles should not have clickers. I believe that they should but not too rough. THe bcpp radio seems very smooth here to me but I'm not really using it much anymore.

The dd tail will solve a lot of problems right away whether you have a gyro or not.
Yes, the stock tail basically sucks for aggressive flying.

It just occurred to me that you might not know about kyle stacy.
www.kylerocks.com
look for the blade videos

Jellyson,

Been on and off the net for a few days, had computer troubles. Ended up, reformatting the hard drive and reinstalling the whole nine yards. And yes, I keep back up of everything. Got 2 hard drives and back up almost everynight, only takes five minutes at most. Then make a copy of that about every 2 weeks on a DVD disk.

In your post #481, you've said a ton of very useful information. Man this is a tuff question, what 's the best mod. I think before any mods, you just have to do the basics in setup. Swashplate level and right on, and of course pitch and tracking. I have several helis, my CP is the experimential one. I've got it tweaked so fine, over a period of time, it hovers with almost zero input. Input to control sticks should be very gentle and small. 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch is more than sufficent. Of course, if you're heading into a wall, then jam it. Also, depends on the type of flying you want to do. Backyard, mild aerobatics, 3D stuff. Always, to many decisions.
Back yard, go with the swash plate and the align links. Aerobatics and 3D, swashplate, links, gyro and dd, ops, also, upgrade to the HS55 Servos. Need to modify the HS55 servos if you have the stock Cp/CpPro transmitter. I have that info if you need it.

Jellyson, hang tight, catch ya tomorrow,

Dave / Choppersrue

Sweet...sounds like I may have to go with the DD right away also....I think I will really like it not catching in the carpet.
Also what other benefits did you enjoy at first from the spectrum other than the day of using expo.

thanks for the link that kid can fly....So when kyle is buzzin the bcpp around in a circle sideways with the tail pointed at the ground....is the g90 helping that tail stay pointed straight down?

Thanks for reply dave / coppersrule.

I would like to do all of the above eventually but am nowhere near that phase... I am still working on hovring in all orentations....
I wonder though you said I would doubt that I am giving even an 1/8 most of the time in still hover... I almost cannot give a small enough input to keep the bird in a very exact spot without some occational drifting in whichever way...
I also am stuck to a very tight space so far and have not even had the bird outdoors so maybe I am just wishing for something not possible from such a small scale machine...

Yep, it sure is.

I've got to get some rest, see "yawll" tomorrow,
Hey Dave, a backed-up computer is like money in the bank, it just gives you a gooood feeeling to know it's there...
gald to hear you back on the threads, I was wondering...
g'nite, all
--John

Just read through radds, first battery is tomorrow morning sometime.

I would do the DD tail, then the HH, I have the Telebee HH I got for 50 bucks and it works great!

Jelly is right on!

Enjoy spending all your extra money ...

hey noguy, i am also brand new to this thing called BCPP lol, i was messin around indoors for the first few days and i was getting kinda nervous that i'd never be able to hover, then i realized something, when your inside the aircurrents from the disk will bounce off of EVERYTHING, making it always feel like your flying in ground effect, and if your heater turns on, well that's just one more air current your fighting, anyways, if it's completly calm *wind* outside then definitly practice out doors, or if you know anyway to get yourself into a gym to fly that is the most fun i've had so far, in the gym with nobody else, not only was it a thousand times easyer to hover but there was room enough to start moveing the thing forward *and backwards and sideways lol* o and b/c i am a newb tho i do have a question for anyone on here who would like to help, my servo's the two that are mounted next to each other, that control left and right, one of them is slightly above level, but that linkage is also slightly shorter then the other makeing the swashplate level, will this effect anything, i remember on the airplanes that i flew you chould actualy manualy set some "expo" by changeing the angle of the control arm, or am i not remembering correctly, anyways, should i try and re level that swashplate with a level control arm or not?

maybe it wasnt expo exactly but it had to do with the amount of deflection on each aileron so the one that went up got more throw or something along those lines, anyways, what do you guys think?

For learning I want to put flat bottom blades on my BCPP. The new blades seem realy out of ballance (shakes bad). I ran it up to about half throtle. It did not get any better.

Is there an easy way to balance them?

This is the way I have been told. Is this the best?

======================================
1. Weigh the blades on .1 gram scale. (will need to find one)
2. Balance the heavier blade over a ruller to find CG balance point.
3. Mark it on both blades.
4. Take some packing tape and cut a piece that weighs the same amount as the difference in the weights between the blades. The trick it to gently lay the piece of tape on the lighter blade while balancing it on the ruler.

The idea is to get the blade to have the same center of gravity and same weight as the other blade.
======================================

I just put the orignal blades back on for now. The are running and tracking great. Will find a scale then balance the flats.

I balance both blades on a simulated rotor head.
I don't worry about the individual weights or c.g.s.
And then track them.
And track the flybar.
Out-of-track creates as much vibration as out of balance.

hey lanny,
I am not very experianced but
www.bladecprepair.com
has a very simple method for balancing without any fancy tools. And good explanation of how to do each step with pictures....
Would some of the more experianced bcpp pilots here give there opinion of that web site as it is very straight forward and I would like to know if wha they recomend for upgrades and tuning are the best methods or not.

Shouldn't be concerned with upgrades or bling until you have control of the heli; can put it where you want it, when you want it.
It's just more expensive crashes with the bling.
Learning what to adjust and how to do it is more important when learning.
RADDs has a good training syllabus..
http://www.dream-models.com/eco/index.html

www.bladecprepair.com is a common sense site, with a ton of useable information.

Someone more knowledgable than me correct me if i am wrong...but i believe that doing this doesnt give a true expo but would just give you a linear setting still with a lessened slope. essential helping in the same way by making the inputs on the controller make less of a difference yet taking away travel at the max controller input....ie less sensitive right stick but less total cyclic range...not actual expo....
I thought of trying this however since i cannot afford a controller upgrade at this time I decided not to and to just learn to be more careful with my input on the stick.

Also moejoe I am glad to hear someone else on the tread is totally new too. I probably should give it a go outside i notice my bird stays put much better at about chest high inside and away from the walls...I just know that I will have a hard time sticking to learning all orientations of hover and then will wind up flying off and then getting disoriented and SMASH....more $$$
Hey moejoe have you learned nose-is hover yet...I am struggling to get my brain and thums togeather on this one.....Have any advice for me?

Jellyson, Late night I found a telebee/zoom gyro on ebay $45 $5ship...$50 to my front door....also ordered parts for DD...
I think this hobby is going to get real expensive since I love to tear stuff dow and tinker....(first thing I did when I bought my used revo truck with bb motor in it off ebay was strip it down every single piece of the thing..lol) I am trying to avoid doing to much with the heli...trying to focus on learning to fly