I purchased 2 .25 Zeros and 1 F4U 50 size Corsairs at the AMA show in January 2008. After purchasing, I asked for a receipt. The employee said he couldn't provide me with one. I took my chances and bought the planes anyway.

After building one of the .25 Zeros, I went for a test flight. The plane crashed in 5 seconds. The reason is because of incorrect "Center of Gravity" instructions, which is the main determination of whether a plane will have a successful flight. This is the second time I've had an issue with Raidentech and their poor product quality and instructions. The first time, I got a replacement, but lost a $70 lipo battery.

This time, I lost a $90 lipo battery and $50 motor in the crash. And now I have to drive down to their warehouse and prove I bought their product because I don't have a receipt or order #, which I requested during the time of the transaction. It's a 2 hour roundtrip and $10 of gas for me.

All I asked for was a full replacement of the plane. But that request has been denied at the time of this writing. I didn't even ask to have the battery or motor replaced, but now I am. A company shouldn't be selling defective products, especially one with so many complaints against them. I lost $200 in 5 seconds, which is a mistake I made for trusting a company that said they were looking to improve on their customer service and product quality.

I also checked on the Better Business Bureau website, bbb.com, and they have an "F" rating, aka Raiden Tech. I was hoping Nitroplanes.com would be improving their products and customer service, but appears they haven't. And this time, I even tried covering my own bases.

check you email buddy. I did respond and okay with the replacement plane but I need your address.

John
Nitro Planes

Yes, to your credit, you did respond, after I posted this on the forums. If I get a replacement, I'll leave it at that. I'll have a new plane, but I can't get back my lipos, motor, and servos I lost from downing two of your defective products. Just for the record, it's over $250. That's just too costly for a total of less than 30 seconds of flight from products you should be testing before selling. To your credit, you have a lot of good products, but some just should not be sold to your customers.

Well if you think this plane caused those damages I'll pay for them. Since I'll be paying for them the defective product belongs to me. So I'll buy them back. You are close to our warehouse so I'll credit $15 for driving here. Let me know

FYI, I send you the email before I check RCU today.

We've sold plenty of this zero and we've no problem. So how do how you know you did not do something wrong? So far you are having problem but we'll give you the benefit of the doubt.



John
Nitro Planes

Hmmm... always a good idea to run ANY arf through C.G. calculators just to be sure.

Often the C.G. can be mis-reported, so the person putting the plane together should take the time to get this right.

Yup, learn the HARD way.

So you lack the skill to check the CG and you put the plane together and expect it to fly? Have you build an ARF plane before?

John
Nitro Planes

I followed the instructions from your arf kit. If you want to bash my building skills, why not admit to the poor instructions, which should be correct when selling it with a product you endorse.

Sounds like Nitroplanes has done MORE than any other retailer by offering to replace your damaged electronics AND give you gas money !!

They have done the right thing here...

And I look forward to ordering more planes from them in the future.

So you followed the CG on the manual and how are you so sure the CG on the manual is incorrect? to what do you base that on? Your plane nose drive in first 5 second of you flight. How are you so sure it's not something else?

I'm not trying to bash you but simply asking question and investigating.

John
Nitro Planes

The only CG problems I've ever had was with Nitroplanes stuff. Go check your forums. Many of your customers say the CG on many of your products are incorrect. I've put together 10 ARFs. Not one ever had CG problems, except for the two that came from your store. Yes, two other ones from your store flew fine. Like I said earlier, many of your products are good. But some are just not worth buying, especially if the CG is wrong. Go read the forums. I'm not alone.

Nitro is going WAY BEYOND what I have ever heard ANY retailer do. AND GIVE GAS MONEY? Come on, ALWAYS DOUBLE CHECK the CG , If you had trouble before, why did you even buy this time !!!! And NO RECIEPT ? Is that the same as "the check is in the mail"? A lot of times the factory CG might be off. Man up, the manufacture makes mistakes just like we do. We have to take responsability too. Stop whinning..--Just don't buy from Nitro!! I think you'll be doing them a favor !! I'm sure a moderator will stop this, but somebody needs to stop this bashing. How many other retailers would go as for as John has. With NO reciept.

Impressive customer service John[sm=thumbup.gif]

It has been posted in many threads that the instruction manuals for these ARFs are nearly worthless... In fact maybe a month ago I stated the same regarding the Extra 260 and I assemblled the ARF based on my prior knowledge of ARF assembly (ARFs are not built!). While I can fly the plane at the manuals sudjested C/G I can feel it is less than ideal. Nitro Planes ARFs are not for the beginner. While the price is attractive to all modelers it takes some experience to be successful with these ARFs. I feel you have been treated fairly twinbrother. At least here on the public forum. What happened at the wharehouse only you and the person you dealt with know. Here in the forum your posts are steaming with finger pointing and accusations. Perhaps you got that way from how you where treated at the wharehouse or perhaps you went to the wharehouse that way too. Only you know the answer to that but I know what I would tell an unrully customer walking into my bussiness... Please understand I am not accusing you of being rude with them first as I have no way of knowing.

Best of luck if you get another of these planes.

While you may have had a problem, referencing the other forums is sort of meaningless as each case is different...

Where this has been found ( usually because of insert pages for a larger version of the same plane ) it has been corrected.


Even if the C.G. WERE to be "wrong" in the manual, this doesn't mean that the product is "defective" or "just not worth buying".

At worst, it merely means that the manual may need adjustment.

That you had a problem is lamentable. That John is offering to replace your stuff is fantastic. It's great that he made this offer.

Labeling something "defective" or "just not worth buying" outright because of a figure in a manual, is a bit disingenuous.... the manual may be "defective", but that doesn't mean that the plane is.

I'd count my blessings in this case, and merely tell people that you may have had a C.G. problem that they need to be aware of.

That is all that was called for if you wish to warn anyone.... unlike these threads and the last time you had some "issues".

Hey, genius outdoorhunting. I asked for a receipted, twice, when I bought the planes. Read the thread more carefully. They're the ones who didn't give me one. And yeah, I know some CGs are off. So I made adjustments. No other manufacturer gives CGs this off. I bet you couldn't get it to maiden correctly the first time. And posting what you're going to do is different from doing it. Before you open your sorry mouth, read the details. Nitroplanes retracted the reimbursement of my damaged items. They're only going to replace my plane. We kept going in circles and in the end, settled on just a replacement. I've had awesome customer service with Tower and others. And they don't sell some of the incorrectly manufactured products like Nitroplanes does. And yeah, I won't be buying from them again. It's not worth it. If you want to, go ahead.

I always give retailers the opportunity to correct the problem. I only let it out when I get steared the wrong way or the retailer or business tells me one thing, then a few days later, retracts their promise. I'm pretty experienced with building ARFs, but even the experienced will have problems with some of their products. And I do give praise on some of the stuff I purchased from them. Just for the record, directed at Opjose and outdoorhunting, behind the scenes, Nitrostaff admitted to me they had problems with another item I purchased from before. And they were working on correcting it. So if the retailer is admitting problems, yet still sells it, don't you think they should stop selling it? If outdoorhunting wants to buy those admitted problematic items, have fun with them.

WHATEVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It depends upon the problem.

My CMP Yak 1.40's recommended C.G. was off, but I did search for this prior to flying the plane and use what was recommended by other experienced flyer. It's a great deal on the plane. So no I don't think that they should stop selling it.

BTW: This was the manufacturer's fault not NP's.

Some people have had problems with Bobcats because they assumed that the C.G. is off, due to angle of attack behaviour, causing the plane to "jump" off the runway. Does this mean they should stop selling it? Absolutely NOT, the builder needs to learn a bit more about this type of plane though.


You haven't built 10 glow arf's then right?
Some of those were foamies or something else?

Otherwise you'd find that statement to be untrue.

I've got manuals from Great Planes, Hangar 9, Sig, etc. all with incorrect C.G.'s.


Eh, you were talking about the manual and now they have gone to "incorrectly manufactured"?

Are you now asserting that the plane you had a problem with was incorrectly manufactured?

Or are we back to the C.G. being wrong?

Isn't this what you said last time though?

I'm referring to two separate items on two separate occassions. I agree that some info may be off, but not that off. And if it is, as a retailer or business, they should be correcting it and pull it off their website and not sell it until it's fixed. Or post new info on the website letting customers know correct info has been posted and amended to the original instructions. It's not like buying a car from a private party, you could get a lemon. Buying from a retailer or business raises the standards. There are things a business must do to grant a certain level of satisfaction. I guess outdoorhunting doesn't know that or doesn't have enough words to answer. So sorry. And yes, I have built 10 wood arfs, electric and glow. Some have been the same model type.

I read the thread very carefully. If I'm buying a plane & the guy tells me "no reciept" I'm telling him "NO SALE" Bad deal all the way around !!

Yup, I agree.

If the info is not posted AND the purchaser not notified on how to find it, then the seller does indeed have a responsibility.

I hope you get this sorted out to your liking.

I'm told I'm getting a replacement, so looking forward to receiving my plane. However, I'm still out my battery, motor, and servos. I'll just chalk that up to a hard lesson learned. Some employee at some hobby shop told me once you get what you pay for. I'm starting to believe him. As stated before, not all of Nitroplanes products are bad, but out of the 4 planes I've built from them, 2 were bad. That's a 50-50 shot of getting the plane in the air successfully. Just too costly for me. I'm going back to buying proven products from vendors such as Tower and HobbyPeople. A little more expensive, but at least I won't be guessing on instructions and CG and I won't lose $200 in hardware. Thanks for the feedback.

I agree to replace the plane you suggested and even buy back your 2nd unoepned zero. I even agree to replace your equipment that's in the zero but you are asking me to replace 7 servos? why? the zero only take 5 servos. You lost your battery but you already recycled the next day. If I replace your onboard equipments then those equipment belongs to me right?

John
Nitro Planes

I really thought we were done with this. Nitrostaff1, what you're posting are just headlines. You're not getting into details. As I stated, it's 2 hours roundtrip and $10 gas on my part, which I didn't want to do regarding returning the second Zero. I said if you wanted to send a prepaid postage sheet for the unopened box I have, you could do it. But you didn't want to do that. Also, you wanted receipts for all my damaged stuff and I said I didn't have them. I don't keep all my receipts. What I did do was send you links to the website pages where I bought the items for pricing info and you said you were confused why I sent you the links. Also, I noted to you the 7 servos were from 2 bad planes which I purchased from Nitroplanes, not one. It's in all the correspondances I sent you, but for some reason, you kept thinking it was just one plane. Finally, I told you to just send me the replacement because I felt you kept asking me the same questions, which I already answered. I really don't understand why you're bringing up another post. My last post just explained why I preferred dealing with more proven products, which consumers have the right to do. And fyi, a retailer or company is only as good as their worst products. Everything is great when everyone is happy. But the true test for a retailer is when problems arise. That's when you see if retailers are looking out for their customers or for themselves. I've never had to go back and forth with retailers such as Tower or Hobby Lobby. But I've gone back with you about 9 times on this one issue. Maybe it's me not being clear, but I don't have the same issues with other retailers.

And one other note. I run an online website company. Some customers have not been happy, and sometimes, the problems were not my fault. Didn't matter. I gave the customer credit for extra items for free to keep them happy. Didn't even question it. And they were very happy that I did. Unless the customer is out to get something for free, I give them the benefit of the doubt and keep them happy. Because I know one negative customer can make me lose 10 sales.

Oh, cough, cough, clear throat, clear throat, yea & I think I remember that that bad plane scratched my truck & I had just put a ah, ah a $10,000. paint job on it, yah, yah, that's the ticket, but I don't have any reciepts !!!! I don't know what else you could do John. I think maybe that's a customer you don't need !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He said it in the last post A customer trying to get something for nothing !!!!!!! The more info I see on this deal, it's sooo obvious. I don't think ANYBODY WOULD GO AS FAR AS YOU HAVE!! A big thumbs up to Nitro.