Thanks Kevin, I really like the looks of your Ecstasy.Would a Saito 100 hover this plane?I've got the perfect place too build and I think I would really enjoy it.I built a 16x20 building with a 12on12 roof too match my house just for my planes. Tipstall, thanks for the info.Do you like your C.G. EX 330 & do you think STD JR 537 servos will be enough for this plane.Just received it today.I love my TT.46,hope it gets the job done on this application.Oh yea,did you use the paper hinges that came with your plane?how did your CG work out with this setup.Thanks you guys are great.

Sharkey - I looked at the specs of the Saito 100. Realize that according to Horizon website, the Saito 100 puts out 1.8 HP on 30% Nitro Heli fuel. I don't know about you, but I don't want to spend that kind of money on fuel for a Saito 100! I realize that it doesn't need it, but why are they rating it using 30% heli fuel What is the HP rating with 5% or 10% (more commonly used)?
I believe that the Saito 100 will hover the Ecstasy, though I wouldn't want it (IMO). I run the ST90 with a Mac Header and pipe. The ST90 is suppose to put out 2.5 HP (plus with the header & pipe I'm sure a little more). I am running a 15X4W APC prop on mine and it hovers at about 1/4 throttle. Yeah the Saito 100 would hover it, and I pretty sure that it would pull it out of a hover, though with what authority? I don't know. I have one customer that was talking about putting a Saito 100 on his at one time, though I do not know if he is going to follow through or not. I talked with him the other night, and he has the wings completed and is starting the fuse right now. I see guys post here on this forum of them loving the U-Can Do 3D with a Saito 90 & 100 and by the sounds of some of their feedback, it weighs about the same as the Ecstasy and the Ecstasy has more wing area. What it really boils down to is what you want out of the aircraft. I personally wouldn't have the Saito 100 on my Ecstasy, I would rather have the 120, but that is me and I can not speak for you. Yes I firmly believe that the Saito 100 would hover the Ecstasy, to answer your question directly (again <GRIN>)
Kevin

I had a chance to do some testing with the B Y&O 14x4, and 13x6 on my Saito.72 in my Sledge. Both props worked well, but performed different. The 14x4 had good pulling power, and would hover at 1/3-1/2 throttle. It had very good braking qualities, and spins seemed better. The 13x6 had better vertical acceleration, and would hover at a lower throttle setting. It was hard to get the airplane slowed down for landing. I think the 14x4 will be a good choice for most flying, but the13x6 will help on windy days. I look forward to a longer test period to try all the props back to back. Tom

I contact Brodak regarding the availability of the B Y&O 15X4s. They told me that their prop machine operate was in a fatal accident, and they have not been able to re-stock in a while. They also said that they did have some Rev-Up props in stock. They are selling the Rev-Ups, though anyone interested needs to check on the available sizes first along with their pricing.
Kevin

Guys,
Over in the "tips and techniques" forum, there was a fellow from Denmark that posted a picture of his home made prop carving machine. Being the "crafty" type of guy, I thought "man that is way too cool" and had to build one of my own. Its just a simple 3 axis copy machine, built from steel. Uses a 1.5 hp router and a 1/2" bull nose bit with a 1/2" round end aluminum stylus to copy the master prop. Took me Friday night, Saturday and this morhing to put it together, and then I spent a few hours copying various APC props. Have one 12.25-3.75 made up from hard maple that I will try on the Irvine 53 that I am running that sme size APC prop on currently.

Basically, anyone with some basic shop tools (a lathe, a welder) can turn out one of these and start making your own props. Allways something to fool with, isnt there!?

Also, I thought if you modify one prop, then you can copy it again and again...

Here are some pics!

Andrew

a close up..

another..

the APC 12.25-3.75 after sanding the router marks out of it...

That is awesome! I am anxious to hear the results of you maple version of the 12.25x3.75. What are they going to sell for? <GRIN> You may want to try some in yellow pine. They we'll be lighter and spool up faster in the yellow pine. Please let us know how you make out.
Kevin

Well, Winter has set in and I was lucky to get out yesterday for one quick flight (then my hands were ice). Dont know when I will get to try the "maple apc" but I will let you know what I think when I do. Its amazingly light compared to the apc, when you have them both in your hands.

In my wood shop we only have white pine, which is too soft for props IMO. Never saw yellow pine. I think soft maple would be OK (a bit lighter than hard maple but allmost as tough) and I was thinking American Poplar might be good too, especially if I picked a denser piece.

I have seen old wood props made of everything from Gum, maple, hickory, cherry, walnut and some woods I cant identify. I actually had about 2 dozen original Y&O props that I bought for my old timers, and they were all different woods!

Anyhow, just something else to experiment with and test out. Cool stuff indeed!

Andrew

PS not planning to try and sell these but if I get a chance to make up some and they work well I'd send you some to try yourself. May be a while!

Wow... That is totally cool Andrew... I'd love to be able to do that... Don't have the welder or the lathe.... But ya never know... Maybe I'll just have to shell out a few bucks and go there!!!

Great Idea!! Very interested to see how you fair out.

There are so many things you can make for yourself if you get into metal work/ hobby machining... my lathe and mill and welder have allowed me to make many many things I would have otherwise not been able to, or had to pay someone else to do for me.

That being said, it is a bit of money to lay out and is only worth it if you make hobby machinig part of your "model airplane" hobby in general such as I did. I say if you have a chance to get a good used lathe and can afford it, go for it! You will be surprised at how many things you can do now for yourself!

To me, model airplanes as a hobby isnt just building and flying planes. It is engine work, making parts for my helicopters, making things like that prop carver that are used to make parts, etc, etc... It is the BEST hobby going, as I am sure you all know!

Model airplanes is a way of life, not just a hobby for me!

Andrew

By the way Andrew, since you are in Northern Ontario, and I am SC, I can always test out those wood versions of the 12.25x3.75 for you on my Webra 50s and give you a test report
Kevin

Kevin,
I'll tell you what! Let me make a few and I will send them to you. Then you can compare them to the props you reworked, and also to the Y&O's.

Send me your address to my email ( [email protected] ) and then you can try em' where its sunny and warm and you dont have to warm your hands by holding onto the muffler/tuned pipes!! (no joke!)

I am also going to try some APC 11-4's in wood, thats what I use on my .46 size fun fly's.

I have to make a proper "pattern" now by epoxying an APC down to a piece of wood, with thickened epoxy under the blade (two needed, one of the top and one of the bottom) so when I trace out the prop with the stylus, it doesnt flex the blade down. On the test runs I just put some clay under the blades but if its going to be a prop I will make many of, I will "sacrifice" two good ones to make permanent patterns.

No charge of course for the props, or postage. Its for the "good of the hobby" and "pushing the envelope" in the world of fun fly propellers!! LOL!

Later,
Andrew

I cut down a Zinger 16x5 to 15", then modified the tips and thinned the blades according to 3Dreaming's instruction. I tried it yesterday on my ST90 with a Mac Header and Tuned pipe mounted on my Ecstasy. I tached the APC 15x4W first at 11,400 RPM. The modified Zinger tached at 10,400. So back to the drawing board. It performed pretty good despite the 1,000 RPM loss. Needless to say, the modified Zinger was much better on the spool up (anticipated), though didn't have the same pull as the APC (anticipated with 1,000 less RPM). Though I must say, it sure is nice to have the breaking feature of the Zinger, and the quick responce when your hovering. I am getting spoiled!
Kevin

I've been running the APC 12.25 x 3.75 on my Webra 50s with a Mac header and Tuned pipe. I tried the Brodak Y&O 12x4 on my Aeron. The Brodak clearly out performs the Zinger, even the modified Zinger version. The B Y&O doesn't pull quite as well as the APC 12.25x3.75 but more than makes up for it in response. It definiately has my vote!
Also the B Y&O flexes at high RPM that makes it sound like a big Bolly <COOL!!! >
Kevin

Where can we buy this Brodak prop ? Any website ?
Thanks

Never mind Kevin, should have read the whole thread first. Found it already and ordered a couple of props in different sizes.

Glad to be of assistance <GRIN>
Kevin

I mailed Kevin three of the first maple copies I made of the APC 12.25-3.75 today.

I am very excited to see how they will perform against the BY&O's and all the other wooden props tried to date. If they suck, I want to know it too! I made three different thicknesses, same as the APC, 1/32" thicker and 1/16" thicker.

You should have them for the weekend unless the mail is slowed up for the holiday season.

Andrew

Andrew, in case they DO NOT suck, will you put them in production and sell them to us ? I definitely would like to try some out once available (and approved by Kevin )
I am pretty sure they will be better then the heavy (slow spooling) APC.

I am not making any descisions yet, I prefer to wait untill they are tried out! I would do it myself but I am stuck here now in the winter, its cold (-5 to -10), snowing and dark by the time I get home. Ahh winter!

Since Kevin has tried quite a few props out and from what I have read here on RCU is quite into the Fun Fly scene, I thought he'd be a good test pilot (plus he asked!)

It takes me about 1/2 hour to rough out, sand and balance, and then put three coats of polyurethane on. By no means a "production line" type operation!

I generally have a good outlook on life, but when it comes to things like this, I allways think the worse and then I'm not dissappointed when the end result isnt good. So, I wont be upset if Kevin thinks they arent any good, but if they turn out to be awesome, I will be SUPER happy!

Andrew

First off, I really appreciate Andrew sending me the wood versions of the APC props for testing purposes. I will be sure to let everyone know how they work. By the way Andrew, it was in the mid 60's here yesterday and gorgeous! I flew most of the day. I agree with the statements that the APC 12.25x3.75 are slow on spool-up, though it is hard to beat is pulling potential. I've tried the modified version of the Zinger, and recently tried the B Y&O 12x4. Needless to say, the B Y&O has great spool up. Throttle response is great, though still doesn't have the pulling power of the APC. This is why I am so interested in the wood version of this prop.
Thanks again Andrew.
Kevin

Andrew, if they work you could sell them in the rough. If someone wants more performance they should be willing to work for it a little. Tom

Yeah thats a good option. Just rough machine them, leave the final sanding and balancing up to "you" as well as the finishing. But I am sure a lot of guys like to buy props RTF, balanced and ready to go.

Andrew

I agree with 3Dreaming. As you stated before Andrew, you don't necessarily want to be in the prop making business. But first things first. Let's see how they perform (as Andrew stated before).
Kevin