The BEST way to prevent a hover from turning into a torque roll is to first make sure the airplane is not at that "perfect vertical" position that we talked about before. A little forward will usually prevent it from rolling, but you will have t hold constant elevator.

Another very important thing is to MAKE SURE that the airplane never loses altitude while hovering. It will really start rolling if you let it descend a little bit. If anything, go up just a tad.

Hold the throttle at a constant setting give or take just a little.

The hardest way to stop it is to hold aileron and use more and more if it starts to roll. If you pump the throttle and time your aileron and tail surface movements to go with the throttle movements it can make this method a lot easier. Sometimes there just isn't enough aileron to hold it, but it depends on the airplane.

The truth is, hovering is harder than torque rolling. When it is rolling there is a natural stability that you get from that. I really think it makes it easier...If you can control it with it's back to you naturally (without ever having to think about it) then the torque rolls are great. After getting enough practice (so it is as natural as a boring aileron roll used to be) you can really start trying to hover it and it will come a lot easier. Then it's time for some hand grabs...Without telling the AMA of course.

It sounds like you're doing great so far. Any chance you can get some club members to snap a few shots? I think we would all like to see some pictures.

I guess the only advice to give now is to burn even more fuel!

Thanks Brian, I'll try getting over the mental block that I CAN'T torque-roll the dog gone thing, and just practice doing whatever it takes to keep it hangin' all the way around!

Looking back at some of this extremely good info. that has helped me get this far, I read a post that said "to practice entering the hover bottom-side-to-you". I think I'll try this a bunch of times to "see what it takes" to hold it in that positon, and to get it around to "normal". Once I can do that, I should be able to continue it around & around & around...............! Hopefully?!?!............But one thing I have learned from this whole thing is, burning fuel (practice) IS 99% of this hovering thing!( funny how I concluded that?!) So I am confident, that with more practice I WILL GET IT!


The other 1% (I thought it was more like 20 or 30% before I started this thread; some "secret" that the 3-D world was in on, except me) But that 1% (or maybe a little more) IS very important and helpfull in getting an idea WHAT to practice (and practice and.........)!


So.........those of you who want it (hovering skills) as bad as I do, please read all you can about it, ask ?'s, seek help, and go out and DO it! Don't give up, or expect too much! Just when you think you'll never get it down, the next time out you start gettin' that "FEEL" (and man what a feeling it is!) than it get's better and better, easier and easier, till you hit a stumbling block, like me! That's why i'm back here, to hear from those who have allready been down the road I'm travelin'. Then it's back out to practice some more!


One more thing , Brian, I think it was one of your video's I saw [nice hovering/tr/grab/me-some-day ( there is a back-slash between those last 2!) by-the-way] I notice you and other seasoned hoverers, mix hovering and tr'n together to make for an awesome show! Combine these manuevers with some pattern type/clean aerobatics, and WHAT A SHOW!!!!!! Has anyone written up a program that use and are willing to share? I haven't followed the profile t.o.c. to much (always been too far) to see if there are any "known" programs that are followed, or if it's just freestyle?

I think it would be cool to have fun-fly aerobatic routines from novice to expert, if someone was willing to take the time. Maybe even having diff ones for diff planes, to highlight there strong points. Like one for a sledge and one for a knife, since there diff. animals.

Anyway, just a thought. I could use some pattern practice to "clean" up my flying. Instead of just flying around going from one manuver here, and another one over ther, etc.! But than again, there's that word again>
P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian, as far as stopping the tr, I read before how you hold back pressure, and this confused me, till now. I thought it would cause the plane to fall back.

But after your explanation, it's making sense!

It's all about the entry. If you don't pull completly vert., you need the pressure to hold it at that angle, so it doesn't fall forward, beginnig to fly.

I've tried right aileron, but it didn't work too good, seemed to make it fall out to the right. Maybe I used too much?


I'll grab my dad's digitall camera, and con my bro. into posting it for all your critique (or maybe pride, like teaching your kid to ride a bike..........well, maybe that wasn't the best annalogy?!)

Main thing on a TR is to give it more up elevator when the belly is facing you.
99.9% of the time its going to fall out towards the wheels.
What you think it takes is most lilely less than what it in reality needs as far as back pressure.
The rudder control when the belly is facing you is secondary to the back pressure it needs.

I have seen TR being done while the plane moves from left to right (or vice versa). What's the secret ?

Its just drifting in the breeze thats all...

Also in dead calm conditions, you can slightly point the nose in any direction and get it to walk where ever you want to while t-rolling.

Jasn

JIVETURKEY, you coming to the fly-in saturday in Elkhart?

I'll PM you.

Hoverit,
I'll be in AnnArbor sat. and won't get home till real late, or I'd be there. I'm pretty sure the WW open house is a week from sun, if you can come and give me some advice, would be cool!





When you guys talk about driftin' down the field TR'n, or moving around like that, it gives me goose bumps to think that if I keep doin' the P word, that'll be me some day!

I know everyone is different, but (if you were to stay at it), what's the average it takes to get THAT good? Are we talkin' years and years, or does proficiency like that come pretty quick, like a couple of seasons? Once you've master the basics, that is being able to deffinetly hold a hover or TR for a good lenght of time ( remember, I am talking averages, according to what you've seen or experienced) ?



I really have already met my original goal, thanks to your help and some determination, that is to be able to hover good enough for guy's at the field to say "Hey look, Ben's hovering!" Which happened last sun.! My buddy also told me he heard someone say, "Looks like he'll be getting a helicoptor soon". Which all feels good, but like I said before, is a good indicator of how I'm I'm doing, but for some reason is just plain fun to be able to make an airplane do something it isn't supposed to do!!!!!!!!!!

Another thing that's nice is, I heard all positive responses from everyone where I fly (except maybe one from the local critic, a guy who's been "flying" longer than I have, who hasn't soloed yet. but I expect it from him, no matter what you do). I know some of you guys who have horror story's to tell, but so far, it seems like a great place to practice 3-D! I DO try to give the trainees room, and either fly at one end, or be concious of the "pattern".

Just read "How long to hover?" thread, kinda answered my question.


Keep it up Hal, were not in it alone!


I don't know what it is about hovering, but somewhere in this thread, someone said something like, "Once you get bit by the hovering bug, it's all you can think about." Very true! (unfortunatley for our wives sometimes! But if you're addicted to planes and STILL married, you probably better hang on to her, she's a keeper!)

Wayne, take a look at Joe Hunt's video of the Kangke Laser 2000 at D O D website doing fantastic form of TR. I don't think it was drifting. The left-to-right "drift" was intentional.........

Its doing both.
I have seen Joe fly and I know he can control a plane in a hover as good as anyone out there.
But, even though his shirt isnt moving much (breeze) there isnt enough pitch changing in that TR to make it drift like that.
I think its a combination of his thumbs and whatever small breeze there is.

Torque rolling in a breeze is just as easy as a calm day, once the airplane is moving in the direction of the wind. Watching it cruise down the runway with the nose straight up is pretty exciting the first couple of times...Now I can't stand the wind.

Moving around in a hover (is that still a hover?) left, right, forward, and back, is now what I am practicing. That's all part of gaining more and more control over your aiplane. Makes me feel powerfull...

Jive, looks like you've got the elevator thing figured out. To hover let the nose forward just a tad and hold a little up elevator to keep it from falling forward...

Without going back to read all 112 posts in this thread, what kind of airplane and engine are you doing all this stuff with?

Morris Knife & YS 63!