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STALLING

Old 12-29-2003, 01:25 AM
  #1  
KENB85
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Default STALLING

GOLDBERG TIGER II (40 SIZE LOW WING) - O.S. 46 FS ENGINE - STALLS MOSTLY IN LEVEL FLIGHT - FOR MONTHS NOW, EVERYTIME I TAKE OFF IT STALLS AFTER 2 OR 3 MINUTES - I'VE TRIED EVERYTHING - 3 DIFFERENT ENGINES - SEVERAL GLOW PLUGS (DIFFERENT BRANDS TOO) - NEW O'RINGS IN CARB - NEW FUEL TANK - RAISING TANK - LOWERING TANK - RUNNING LEAN - RUNNING RICH - FUEL PUMP - ---HAVENT TRIED ONBOARD GLOW PLUG STARTER --- WHAT ELSE IS THERE?

THANKS - KEN
Old 12-29-2003, 01:28 AM
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3DFanatic
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Default RE: STALLING

How big is the tank? Any extravagant plumbing between the tank and engine? Have you played with the low-end needle?
Old 12-29-2003, 02:02 AM
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KidVermin
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Default RE: STALLING

Ken:

Must still be getting air in one of the lines. A small crack or hole will cause the sputter and dead stick. I'm assuming dead stick -- or just loss of power ?
Old 12-29-2003, 04:18 AM
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ossie
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Default RE: STALLING

Ken,
3 different engines with the same problem sounds like an issue with fuel supply -

1. Check the fuel lines for holes or cracks including the fuel line thats connected to the fuel pickup (clunk) thats inside the tank.

2. Check that the clunk fuel line IS connected to the carby/needle valve and moves freely inside the tank.

Sounds simple but I've seen these things overlooked.

Hope this helps.
Ossie
Old 12-29-2003, 09:36 AM
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DBCherry
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Default RE: STALLING

It actually sounds to me like the vent line is connected to the carb. When the tank is completely full it'll draw fuel from the tank, but after a couple of minutes running the level in the tank falls below the "vent" line.

Have you ever pumped out the remaining fuel in the tank at the end of the day? Can you pump it from the carb line? If the carb line is actually the vent, you won't be able to pump fuel from it.
Dennis-
Old 12-29-2003, 10:00 AM
  #6  
TerrellFlyer
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Default RE: STALLING

Agree with post 3-4-5,OS .46 is a trouble free engine,after running point the nose up to make sure the engine is set to lean.
Old 12-29-2003, 10:18 AM
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Aja
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Default RE: STALLING

i had trouble for a while with my OS .40... it turned out that the glow plug wasn't getting enough heat when i started it up so it would stop glowing in flight... just a thought
Old 12-29-2003, 11:39 AM
  #8  
TerrellFlyer
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Default RE: STALLING

MY message should have read,point the nose up to make sure the engine isn't set to lean.[sm=bananahead.gif]
Old 12-29-2003, 11:41 AM
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KENB85
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Default RE: STALLING

SORRY GUYS, I'VE TRIED ALL THE THINGS MENTIONED IN THE FIRST 5 REPLIES - IN THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE I NEGLECTED TO MENTION SEVERAL THINGS --- CHECKED THEN REPLACED ALL THE FUEL PLUMBING, THEN A COMPLETE NEW TANK & MORE NEW TUBING - INSTALLED FILTER - CLEANED CARB. SEVERAL TIMES - NEW O'RINGS - TANK IS MOUNTED IN POLYFOAM TO STOP VIBRATION FOAMING - ALSO DIDN'T MENTION THAT I HAVE RUN SEVERAL TANKS OF FUEL THRU IT ON MY ENGINE STAND AND ALSO WITH THE ENTIRE PLANE ON A STAND AND IT RUNS GREAT UNTIL I GET IN THE AIR - THEN IT'S DEAD STICK TIME - THIS IS A 10 OZ. TANK MOUNTED 3" BEHIND ENGINE & FIREWALL - NO UNUSUAL PLUMBING - RUNS GOOD NOSE UP OR DOWN - AIRPLANEARRON - I NEVER HEARD OF THE GLOW PLUG PROBLEM YOU DESCRIBED. WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT IT?
Old 12-29-2003, 11:50 AM
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KENB85
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Default RE: STALLING

ONE MORE THING I DIDN'T MENTION - I FLY SEVERAL OTHER PLANES SO I'VE USED FRESH FUEL FROM SEVERAL JUGS - HOWEVER I ALSO HAVE A J3 CUB WITH A THUNDER TIGER 54 - 4 STROKE - THAT HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS - BUT THAT SEEMS TO BE FIXED NOW.

-KEN
Old 12-29-2003, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: STALLING

One thing you havn't mentioned is, are you using a Balanced Prop and spinner? Did you use the same prop on all engines. An unbalanced prop or spinner will cause excess vibration which in turn could cause you to have a fuel foaming problem. which will give you bubbles in the fuel line causing engine to lean out and stall or sag.

Are you using the right Prop for this engine? Too much prop will Load the engine too hard and cause over heating. to small or Too low pitch of Prop. will allow the engine to over rev and run cold.
What RPM are you running at WOT?
FWIW.

Rick.
Old 12-29-2003, 03:15 PM
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KENB85
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Default RE: STALLING

HEY, SMOKY - THAT'S GOOD - I'M GRASPING AT STRAWS ANYWAY - IT NEVER CROSSED MY MIND TO BALANCE THE SPINNER AND I DON'T HAVE A CLUE HOW TO DO IT - IT'S A GOLDBERG 2 1/4" NYLON SNAP-ON TYPE (NEW) - THE PROP IS AN 11 - 7 (ONE OF THE RECOMMENDED SIZES FOR THE O.S. 46) AND IS BALANCED - I'VE TRIED MORE THAN ONE PROP - HOW DO YOU BALANCE A SPINNER?

KEN
Old 12-29-2003, 03:32 PM
  #13  
KENB85
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Default RE: STALLING

MORE STUFF I NEGLECTED TO MENTION -- THE ENGINE SITS UPRIGHT (VERTICAL) - THE NEEDLE VALVE IS SLIGHTLY ABOVE THE CENTERLINE OF THE TANK (1/4") - THE HOSE TO THE CARB IS CLEAR AND APPEARS TO HAVE NO FUEL IN IT AFTER I DEAD STICK IT BACK TO MOTHER EARTH.
PLEASE, ANYBODY - GRASP AT MORE STRAWS FOR ME. I'VE TRIED JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT IS THE LEAST BIT SENSEABLE.

KEN
Old 12-29-2003, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: STALLING

This is a duplicate of my friend's .46 FX problem.

The solution was found when he determined the hole in the exhaust nipple, in the muffler, did not go completely through. No presure to the tank, and in fact it would create a vacuum in the tank after running a while, and fuel would no longer flow.

You might check to see if the hole goes all the way through your exhaust nipple. (I'm assuming you used the same muffler on those 3 engines.)

Good luck,
Dave Olson
Old 12-29-2003, 04:40 PM
  #15  
KENB85
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Default RE: STALLING

NO - 3 DIFFERENT MUFFLERS - ONE ENGINE WAS AN MDS 40 - I'LL CHECK IT OUT ANYWAY - YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE PRESSURE TAP SCREWED INTO THE MUFFLER, RIGHT?

KEN
Old 12-30-2003, 01:53 AM
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Default RE: STALLING

Is the clunk folded up to the front of the tank? This happened to my on my Sukhoi. I'd make a 45° climb-out and the engine would burn the fuel in the line and die. Was real frustrating till I figured it all out.
Old 12-31-2003, 08:39 AM
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Default RE: STALLING

KenB.

Your Problem is NOT a Balance problem. if it was, you would see bubbles in the fuel line, not an empty line.

All CAPITOL LETTERS! is considered as YELLING/HOLLERING! please don't yell.

Other possibilities are a Kinked line from the pressure tap to the tank. Possibly where it goes through the firewall, or Between the firewall and tank? this would create a vacumn, as it tries to suck from the tank. then when the engine quits it would suck back the fuel from the fuel supply line from the carb to the tank. Thus causing an empty line. I've seen these line's either twisted or bent enough to kink em.

Hope this helps.
Rick.
Old 01-18-2004, 11:53 PM
  #18  
fritch1969
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Default RE: STALLING

same thing happened to me and the problem was my receiver ant. was to close to the metal pushrods for the ele.


just a thought
Old 01-19-2004, 07:35 PM
  #19  
Phlip
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Default RE: STALLING

Rather than take wild guesses in a kind of hit-or-miss approach, how about a little logical troubleshooting?

Try running the engine at flight speed anchored to the ground. Does it run out a full tank? If so, you can (most likely) eliminate fuel and/or glow problems as the cause. If it stops after two or three minutes, the plane is right there and the fuel line is visible, so bubbles or foaming fuel would be apparent.

After the engine is warmed up for a few minutes, play with the throttle. You might be able to detect a bad needle valve setting. Or keep your transmitter antenna down and walk away from the model. This is how you perform a radio range check--always a good idea, and better with the engine running.

I've used this common sense approach to help out several guys in my club, and usually the problems become apparent fairly quickly. But I did have a problem once that I couldn't find this way. My engine would run fine on the ground, level, nose up, nose down, full throttle, half throttle...although it wouldn't idle well. In the air it would quit. {BTW, when you say a plane "Stalls" you're saying it stops flying and (usually) drops the nose. When your talking about the engine, you should say "the engine stops running."} The problem with my engine was a loose crankcase back plate. Would not allow consistent fuel draw.

Good luck,

Phil
Old 01-19-2004, 10:16 PM
  #20  
KENB85
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Default RE: STALLING

HEY - FRITGH 1969 ---
THE PLANE DOESN'T HAVE METAL PUSHRODS (AND I'VE RUN THE ANTENNA SEVERAL DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS ANYWAY.)

& PHLIP--
HAVE YOU READ ALL THE THINGS I'VE TRIED (LISTED IN MY 5 E-MAILS ABOVE) - I'M A LOGICAL KIND OF GUY WITH 40 YEARS EXPERIENCE ON REAL AIRCRAFT - I'VE DECIDED LOGIC AIN'T GONNA CUT IT. I'M GRASPING AT STRAWS NOW - I'VE PURCHASED AN ONBOARD GLOW PLUG IGNITER, WHICH REQUIRED ACCESSORIES THAT WERE NOT SUPPLIED WITH IT. AS SOON AS I GET ALL THE PARTS FOR IT AND GET IT INSTALLED, I'LL BE COMPLETELY OUT OF IDEAS AND I DON'T REALLY THINK IT'S GOING TO FIX IT. I THINK I'VE JUST THROWN AWAY ANOTHER $50 BUCKS ON THIS THING.

& OH YES SMOKEY--
I SURE DO CATCH A LOT OF FLACK ABOUT USING ALL CAPS IN MY TYPING. MOSTLY FROM COMPUTER PEOPLE. I'M NOT YELLING BUT I DON'T HAVE THE FULL COMPLEMENT OF FINGERS AND IT'S MUCH EASIER ON ME TO USE ALL CAPS. FOR US OLD GUYS (OVER 42) IT'S ALSO MUCH EASIER TO READ. MOST OF YOU WILL FIND OUT ABOUT THE 42 YEAR OLD THING WHEN YOU GET THERE & YOU PROBABLY WON'T LIKE IT, I DON'T. I USE 4 DIFFERENT PAIRS OF GLASSES.

KEN
Old 01-20-2004, 09:11 AM
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TerrellFlyer
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Default RE: STALLING

Morning KENB85, after all you have tried and the problem still happens then I would have someone with a lot of experience check the plane and engine over,if that didn't help then I would send the engine back to the factory to see if there is a problem in the engine.[:-]
Old 01-20-2004, 12:33 PM
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KENB85
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Default RE: STALLING

HEY - TERRELLFLYER
CHECK MY E-MAILS ABOVE - I'VE HAD 3 ENGINE ON IT (AN M.D.S. 40 AND 2 O.S. 46'S) - THEY ALL RAN GREAT IN OTHER AIRPLANES - SEVERAL GUYS IN OUR CLUB HAVE BEEN FLYING SINCE THE '50'S - THEY ALL HAVE WORKED WITH ME ON THIS - MAYBY A SMALL AMOUNT OF HIGH EXPLOSIVE WOULD FIX THIS THING.

KEN
Old 01-20-2004, 01:38 PM
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TerrellFlyer
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Default RE: STALLING

Hi KENB85,I've read all your post,thank you,and I'll repeat,if all else send it back to the factory
Old 01-20-2004, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: STALLING

Look like no answer is going to be the rite one , no matter what it is . I think you answered your own question, when you tried other engines. Do as TF said send the motor in to be checked.
Old 01-20-2004, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: STALLING

just a reply to rc outlaw&terrell flyer.if you did read his post (post#9)you would have read that he has had the engine on an engine stand and said it ran fine w/several tanks of fuel through it.i had a dago red p-51,and had the same problem.2 engines no luck,till i realized that the needle valves in both engines were loose,causing it to lean out and die at ceartin alttitude,whats the luck of having 2 needle valves loose.one was a tower .46&a evolution.46,the evolution had only 3 flights right out of the box,and this happend.[sm=cool.gif]

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